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[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@ former fiend

 

It's not so much what she says as how she says it especially if you play a female warden.  I got the impression she was going to say something else and Alistair cuts her off and claims he is her brother.  Goldana certainly wasn't impressed and flat out calls the female warden his latest tart!  A women doesn't make that kind of remark to another woman unless there is some hanky panky going on in the first place. 

 

 

@ Augustei

 

King Maric is the one who sent Alistair to Eamon or so it was hinted at in "The Calling". 

[Former_Fiend]

I don't know, I'm not buying it. 

 

It's been a while, but I don't recall any real difference in that scene playing as a male or female warden. It seems like a hell of a stretch, and really out of character for Alistair.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The dialogue options comes up when the quest first starts to find Goldana.  If you choose the middle option you have the option as a female warden to ask him or say to him.  A friend or a friend, then he tells you she is his sister.  Goldana drags the warden right into the conversation and implies your his latest tart who is carrying his riches around for him.  Why should Goldana care who the Warden is?  She shouldn't unless she was something else to Alistair besides his sister.  Alistair dumping all female wardens doesn't look good for him either. 

 

Morrigan and Zevran both imply that he is lying to you all be it for their own purposes.   I've still never gotten out of my head Alistair and Wynne's weird dialogue during the RTO DLC. 

[Augustei]

@ Augustei

 

King Maric is the one who sent Alistair to Eamon or so it was hinted at in "The Calling". 

Yeah thought so, think I just worded my post weird. Maric gave Alistair to Eamon. But I suspect Loghain not Isolde pressured Eamon to give Alistair to the Chantry

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

You might be right about that.  Loghain did know that Alistair was Maric's son. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah thought so, think I just worded my post weird. Maric gave Alistair to Eamon. But I suspect Loghain not Isolde pressured Eamon to give Alistair to the Chantry

Chances are Loghain pressured Isolde to pressure Eamon to do it. 

[dragonflight288]

Chances are Loghain pressured Isolde to pressure Eamon to do it. 

 

Or just Isolde did out of hand for fear of rumors. As an Orlesian, she would be far more concerned about appearances than Eamon would as a Ferelden. 

 

Loghain didn't seem to care one whit about Alistair until Alistair became a potential threat to his daughter. Before that, he just had problems with the Grey Wardens. And justifiably so for any who read The Calling. He saw the Warden-Commander before Duncan making deals with the Architect personally, so he witnessed Wardens working with darkspawn. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Or just Isolde did out of hand for fear of rumors. As an Orlesian, she would be far more concerned about appearances than Eamon would as a Ferelden. 

 

Loghain didn't seem to care one whit about Alistair until Alistair became a potential threat to his daughter. Before that, he just had problems with the Grey Wardens. And justifiably so for any who read The Calling. He saw the Warden-Commander before Duncan making deals with the Architect personally, so he witnessed Wardens working with darkspawn. 

Oh, I agree with Isolde being the reason. I was just answering the hypothetical of if Loghain was behind it, how did it happen.

[Augustei]

Or just Isolde did out of hand for fear of rumors. As an Orlesian, she would be far more concerned about appearances than Eamon would as a Ferelden. 

 

Loghain didn't seem to care one whit about Alistair until Alistair became a potential threat to his daughter. Before that, he just had problems with the Grey Wardens. And justifiably so for any who read The Calling. He saw the Warden-Commander before Duncan making deals with the Architect personally, so he witnessed Wardens working with darkspawn. 

He seems to have been Marics Chancellor and te one running the show in The Calling, And A Ferelden Patriot. It seems likely he would try to do something about an ambitious noble like Eamon having a destabilizing element like A potential Heir to the throne. At least I'd like to hope someone was smart enough to remove Eamon and Alistair instead of it just being Isolde listening to rumors, because if thats all it was that means everybody running the show in Ferelden were a pack of idiots.

[Cobra's_back]

Eh DA's timeline being all over the place isn't news tho.

 

Too many cooks in the kitchen makes sense and it also makes sense that Gaider wanted Alistair to be Fiona son. The book "The Calling is written by Gaider. This is where Fiona and Marc become lovers then Duncan delivers a baby to Marc all in the book. Parts of the game may have different writers.

 

As far as I'm concern the baby's conception is part of Gaider's book and supersede any game error because Marc and Fiona were never characters of the game. Their whole story is found only in Gaider's books.

[Former_Fiend]

As far as I'm concerned, DG's intentions are secondary to what actually happened. 

 

I'll admit, a bit of this simply comes from my intense dislike of Fiona. While I may have my issues with Alistair, he was still a brother in arms, and I wouldn't wish being Fiona's child on my worst enemy.

[Thetford]

I don't know why, but I don't really like the idea of Fiona being Alistair's mother. It feels all a bit too convenient to add another layer of special to him. If anything, I can see a possible third son being used as the answer to the impending heir crisis (Alistair and Anora are both implied to be infertile), not to mention two different lineages they have to do for the game, so having another member of the family suddenly appear would answer the trouble that will soon come. Though, I suppose, there is an issue of the possibility of this prospective third child may be a mage.  

[EmperorSahlertz]

There isn't much to discuss... The game makes it perfectly clear that Alistair was alive while Rowan was.. That makes the child concieved by Fiona and Maric a second bastard (given the implication that Maric often "fooled around").

[Cobra's_back]

I don't know why, but I don't really like the idea of Fiona being Alistair's mother. It feels all a bit too convenient to add another layer of special to him. If anything, I can see a possible third son being used as the answer to the impending heir crisis (Alistair and Anora are both implied to be infertile), not to mention two different lineages they have to do for the game, so having another member of the family suddenly appear would answer the trouble that will soon come. Though, I suppose, there is an issue of the possibility of this prospective third child may be a mage.  

 

Logic please. How did Marc impregnate another women while in the deep roads? Fiona and Duncan gave the child to Marc and told him to say the child had a human mother. Where would the child be now? Adding a third child without valid dates doesn't make his story real. He has to change dates in The Calling or his other book " Dragon Age: The World of Thedas" written by Gaider. Even fantasy writing needs dates to make the world a valid place.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There isn't much to discuss... The game makes it perfectly clear that Alistair was alive while Rowan was.. That makes the child concieved by Fiona and Maric a second bastard (given the implication that Maric often "fooled around").

No, it does not make it perfectly clear. 

[Cobra's_back]

There isn't much to discuss... The game makes it perfectly clear that Alistair was alive while Rowan was.. That makes the child concieved by Fiona and Maric a second bastard (given the implication that Maric often "fooled around").

 

No, because Gaider's books are part of the lore. Fiona and Marc are book characters not game characters. Everything they did is in "The Calling" written by Gaider. As for Alistair he is a Character of the game and books. As stated before, you can't write fantasy and change your dates on the fly. The books are written by Gaider and therefore are part of the lore. 

[Former_Fiend]

Gaider made mistakes. He's human, happens to the best of us.

 

Those mistakes, however, resulted in consequences. 

 

The books are part of the lore, yes. No one's denying or disputing that. But the games are part of the lore, as well. And what some of us(myself and EmperorSahlertz) are asserting is that as far as we are concerned, the games are a bigger, more important part of the lore than the books.

 

I'd also like to point out that Fiona's child is never named in The Calling. If he wanted to be clear about it he could have simply had Maric as and Fiona answer, "Alistair. His name is Alistair.", or some such.

 

There's this concept spawned by an essay titled Death of the Author, that argues against including a creator's intentions into one's readings of the work, rather just taking the text as it is. Under this school of thought, David Gaider's thoughts and interpretations on Dragon Age are no more valid than that of any other fan of the work, until they get published or included in the game. 

 

There are parts of Death of the Author I agree with and parts I don't agree with, but in this case I'm invoking it; as far as I am concerned, Gaider's intentions that haven't yet made it into dragon age canon aren't my concern.

[Augustei]

Another Theirin? Gah I already broke the Theirins as a Royal Dynasty..They were all crappy and mediocre anyway, I don't want to have to prevent yet another Theirin from trying to take the throne. If Anora doesn't conceive then its a Cousland throne now, My Prince-Consort Warden will take steps to ensure that.

[Cobra's_back]

Gaider made mistakes. He's human, happens to the best of us.

 

Those mistakes, however, resulted in consequences. 

 

The books are part of the lore, yes. No one's denying or disputing that. But the games are part of the lore, as well. And what some of us(myself and EmperorSahlertz) are asserting is that as far as we are concerned, the games are a bigger, more important part of the lore than the books.

 

I'd also like to point out that Fiona's child is never named in The Calling. If he wanted to be clear about it he could have simply had Maric as and Fiona answer, "Alistair. His name is Alistair.", or some such.

 

There's this concept spawned by an essay titled Death of the Author, that argues against including a creator's intentions into one's readings of the work, rather just taking the text as it is. Under this school of thought, David Gaider's thoughts and interpretations on Dragon Age are no more valid than that of any other fan of the work, until they get published or included in the game. 

 

There are parts of Death of the Author I agree with and parts I don't agree with, but in this case I'm invoking it; as far as I am concerned, Gaider's intentions that haven't yet made it into dragon age canon aren't my concern.

 

My point is this. Keep it logical and with dates so it seems real or there is no point to the "World of Dragon Age". The Calling is first hand information on Marc and Fiona. They are not part of your game and the warden never changed or met the two. The warden also has nothing to do with the birth of Alistair. Because of these things, it is illogical for me to have the game as my source of input vs his books. Mistakes in a book should be corrected before being published.

 

Edit: Thanks for the link. I'm really talking about basic dates here. 

[Former_Fiend]

My point is this. Keep it logical and with dates so it seems real or there is no point to the "World of Dragon Age". The Calling is first hand information on Marc and Fiona. They are not part of your game and the warden never changed or met the two. The warden also has nothing to do with the birth of Alistair. Because of these things, it is illogical for me to have the game as my source of input vs his books. Mistakes in a book should be corrected before being published.

 

Edit: Thanks for the link. I'm really talking about basic dates here. 

 

Well, like I said before, the editing process for The Calling was unusually short, so they didn't get the chance to correct the dates.

 

For me, the logic is looking at the story as a whole, with the games being the bigger part of the story. If information in one of the books makes it so a good chunk of a game doesn't make sense, then I choose to believe that the mistake is with the books. 

 

To me, the simplest, most logical explanation for the discrepancies between the stories is simply that they aren't the same story; Fiona's child and Alistair are two separate bastards. The only thing that links them is Gaider trying to correct his mistake by saying that the Calling takes place the year of Alistair's birth, which creates too many other problems, in my opinion.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

We should probably get this back on the peace conference.

[Cobra's_back]

Well, like I said before, the editing process for The Calling was unusually short, so they didn't get the chance to correct the dates.

 

For me, the logic is looking at the story as a whole, with the games being the bigger part of the story. If information in one of the books makes it so a good chunk of a game doesn't make sense, then I choose to believe that the mistake is with the books. 

 

To me, the simplest, most logical explanation for the discrepancies between the stories is simply that they aren't the same story; Fiona's child and Alistair are two separate bastards. The only thing that links them is Gaider trying to correct his mistake by saying that the Calling takes place the year of Alistair's birth, which creates too many other problems, in my opinion.

 

I hear what you are saying and it is okay with you. i have serious problems with dates being wrong and bastards not being accounted for. As far as I'm concern I'm much happier with writers that connect all the dots. A writer doesn't need to share his intent with me a little mystery is fine, but the writer's world needs firm dates with follow ups on missing characters.

[Cobra's_back]

We should probably get this back on the peace conference.

 

Sorry

[Former_Fiend]

We should probably get this back on the peace conference.

 

Yea, was thinking the same.

 

So, anyone got any idea why they'd pick the Urn Temple to hold a peace conference? Both in universe and from a story telling stand point?

[LobselVith8]

Yea, was thinking the same.

 

So, anyone got any idea why they'd pick the Urn Temple to hold a peace conference? Both in universe and from a story telling stand point?

 

Perhaps they figured it was neutral territory, given it's status as a holy place, and the trials necessary to enter the ruins (with the consent of the Guardian)? I'd assume it's religious significance may play a role in how some Andrastians view the sole survivor of the cataclysm.