241 réponses à ce sujet

[Mistic]

So, anyone got any idea why they'd pick the Urn Temple to hold a peace conference? Both in universe and from a story telling stand point?

 

Ironically, maybe because no one expected to have it attacked.

 

It's neutral ground, more or less (it's not an Orlais-Ferelden conference), it's in a remote place, far from other power structures that can give an advantage to one side or the other, and it has deep religious significance. The important thing is not the idea of "let's pray to Andraste while we are here" but "it's a sacred place, no side would dare to do something foolish in the conference".

 

It would mean that we should rule out a faithful Andrastian as an enemy in Inquisition, unless they're part of a mad cult like the ones in Haven who thought Andraste had become a dragon.

[Weltea]

Seems to be exactly what's going to happen.

 

They've apparently confirmed it's Mage/Templar in a magazine interview. That puts Rhys, Adrian, Evangeline, and Fiona's odds of survival at a very low point.

Good. Adrian can stay and I don't care what happens to Evangeline but as long as the manbaby and Mary Sue die I'm more than happy.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Just to add my two cents, it's called reconning yes there's a discrepancy between the books and the game but the fact remains the game was written first then multiple books which seem to that heavily indicate fiona is Alistair mother.

You can not just decide Gaider is wrong because you don't like the person. Yes there's some issues but that's why reconning exists unless the books aren't considered as proper cannon or lore then by virtue of coming after the game then they are correct.

And besides there is no "real" discrepancy in the case of Alistair considering the information we get in the games is subjective it relies on not only upon the person telling the truth and remembering correctly.

It is entirely plausible that marics ruse was being maintained by the arle even after marics death. Particularly seeing as he supports Alistairs bid for the throne.

[Former_Fiend]

Just to add my two cents, it's called reconning yes there's a discrepancy between the books and the game but the fact remains the game was written first then multiple books which seem to that heavily indicate fiona is Alistair mother.

You can not just decide Gaider is wrong because you don't like the person. Yes there's some issues but that's why reconning exists unless the books aren't considered as proper cannon or lore then by virtue of coming after the game then they are correct.

And besides there is no "real" discrepancy in the case of Alistair considering the information we get in the games is subjective it relies on not only upon the person telling the truth and remembering correctly.

It is entirely plausible that marics ruse was being maintained by the arle even after marics death. Particularly seeing as he supports Alistairs bid for the throne.

 

Until it gets confirmed in the game, I can decide Gaider's wrong all I want as far as my own personal head canon goes. It's not like he can do anything about it.

[Former_Fiend]

The big twist is...

 

Spoiler

the Inquisitor is the big bad, i.e. YOU are the villain and the one who set up the explosion was trying to kill you to prevent you from moving on with your master plan!

 

Sure, why not.

[azarhal]

Why the Temple of Sacred Ashes?

 

For the Chantry and Mages, it can serve as neutral ground.

For the "bad guy", the place is full of the purest lyrium in Thedas and make for a really good magic battery.

 

I'm going with the place as being part of the bad guy's plan and not just a really lucky choice for him/her/them in the end.

 

 

The big twist is...

 

Spoiler

the Inquisitor is the big bad, i.e. YOU are the villain and the one who set up the explosion was trying to kill you to prevent you from moving on with your master plan!

 

How can that be a twist when some people will believe that right at the start of the game???

[Black Jimmy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all Elf Wardens Dalish? So the dalish are goning to be there. They've no involvement in any of the wars we know of. Even the Elven rebellion is partially because the dalish didn't care about the city elves.

 

It could be for all of them, as they are no doubt fueling each other.

 

Elven Mages no doubt feel compeled to fight for mages and the elves.

Orlesian mages may feel the need to pick a side in the orlesian civil war.

 

I suspect it's turned into one big indecipherable clusterf*ck, so the summit is probably the chantries way of forcing all the factions to sort out terms peacefully because otherwise the wars may never end.

[azarhal]

The peace summit is only about the Mage/Templar/Chantry war, as far as we know.

[Mistic]

Why the Temple of Sacred Ashes?

 

For the Chantry and Mages, it can serve as neutral ground.

For the "bad guy", the place is full of the purest lyrium in Thedas and make for a really good magic battery.

 

I'm going with the place as being part of the bad guy's plan and not just a really lucky choice for him/her/them in the end.

 

Interesting theory. What if the hidden villain made sure that the Temple of Sacred Ashes would be chosen as the place for the summit? Killing two birds with one stone.

 

There is already the heavy suspicion that he or she was behind the failed assassination attempt at the Divine in Asunder (a feat that, as Wynne pointed out, would have needed the help of mages, Templars and maybe even some Chantry members), so maybe the villain has enough influence to suggest "a nice, peaceful and neutral ground" for everyone to be happy.

 

Also, another loose end taken care of. If the Warden didn't make it public, the villain gave the information about the temple.

[Former_Fiend]

I don't see why the dalish wouldn't take an interest in the templar/mage war. It's not like they don't have a stake in it. The only reason the templars haven't dedicated more resources to hunting their mages until now is because it was too much of a hassle. Suddenly, with the mages out in the world in force, it's not that much more of a hassle to go after dalish then it is to go after mages since, hey, they're out in the fields, anyway.

[azarhal]

There is already the heavy suspicion that he or she was behind the failed assassination attempt at the Divine in Asunder (a feat that, as Wynne pointed out, would have needed the help of mages, Templars and maybe even some Chantry members), so maybe the villain has enough influence to suggest "a nice, peaceful and neutral ground" for everyone to be happy.

 

You know, that sound quite a bit like Dawn of the Seeker: dragon cultist blood mages, Knight-Commander Martel and the Grand Cleric of Orlais. The Circle mages were not really involved, but they knew more than the Seekers did so...

[ElitePinecone]

Interesting theory. What if the hidden villain made sure that the Temple of Sacred Ashes would be chosen as the place for the summit? Killing two birds with one stone.

 

 

They've supposedly been manipulating events in Thedas for a while, so I totally think this is true.

 

Remember that it's this attack that finally convinces Cassandra (and the Inquisitor?) that this pattern of chaos and conflicts isn't a coincidence, and that someone or something is pulling the strings of all of this for some larger purpose. 

 

I can totally see them orchestrating a peace conference and nudging both sides to accept that location.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm thinking perhaps the Dalish clan was perhaps just nearby, same with the Qunari and Dwarf backstories. This blast kills thousands according to Cassandra, and I highly doubt the conference had that many attending, meaning it covered an area.

[Former_Fiend]

Well the dwarves have an interest in the conference, too, as it directly impacts the lyrium trade.

[dragonflight288]

Well the dwarves have an interest in the conference, too, as it directly impacts the lyrium trade.

 

This is true. Also, if the dwarven Inquisitor is a surface dwarf (don't know that for sure) he may simply be there in a Bodahn like manner, taking care of supplies for all the bigwigs before he himself becomes a bigwig. 

[MisterJB]

The Temple of Sacred Ashes sounds like a strange place to hold a peace summit.

It's not very neutral ground; the extremists on both sides would likely interpret it to fit their agendas, be it as a reminder of opression or of why magic must be contained; the grave of Andraste should be firmly connected with the Chantry in everyone's mind.

 

Altough, I suppose that could be the intention if the Chantry is supposed to eb the neutral party and they were afraid of what would happen if they had Templars and mages in the same room at the Grand Cathedral.

[dragonflight288]

The Temple of Sacred Ashes sounds like a strange place to hold a peace summit.

It's not very neutral ground; the extremists on both sides would likely interpret it to fit their agendas, be it as a reminder of opression or of why magic must be contained; the grave of Andraste should be firmly connected with the Chantry in everyone's mind.

 

Altough, I suppose that could be the intention if the Chantry is supposed to eb the neutral party and they were afraid of what would happen if they had Templars and mages in the same room at the Grand Cathedral.

 

Possibly. I can also see factions of both the mages and the templars who wouldn't see the Grand Cathedral as neutral at all. The templars who are of a like-mind to Lambert would see them as opposing templars and supporting mages and libertarians would be the same only vice-versa. 

 

The Urn of Sacred Ashes temple is probably the single most neutral ground on hand. And since the mages and templars are, for the most part, believers after 1000 years of being raised in the Chantry, and the site is seen as blessed by the Maker, is probably the one place in all of Thedas neither side wants to desecrate. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all Elf Wardens Dalish? So the dalish are goning to be there. They've no involvement in any of the wars we know of. Even the Elven rebellion is partially because the dalish didn't care about the city elves.

 

It could be for all of them, as they are no doubt fueling each other.

 

Elven Mages no doubt feel compeled to fight for mages and the elves.

Orlesian mages may feel the need to pick a side in the orlesian civil war.

 

I suspect it's turned into one big indecipherable clusterf*ck, so the summit is probably the chantries way of forcing all the factions to sort out terms peacefully because otherwise the wars may never end.

 

why does everyone assume that because they get A dalish inquisitor that THE dalish are at the conference? 

we are getting dwarven and Qunari inquisitors as well and nobodies assuming there's some big convoluted reason as to why they would be there.

the dalish elf might have been unfortunate enough to just be passing by for all we know. 

[Cobra's_back]

Possibly. I can also see factions of both the mages and the templars who wouldn't see the Grand Cathedral as neutral at all. The templars who are of a like-mind to Lambert would see them as opposing templars and supporting mages and libertarians would be the same only vice-versa. 

 

The Urn of Sacred Ashes temple is probably the single most neutral ground on hand. And since the mages and templars are, for the most part, believers after 1000 years of being raised in the Chantry, and the site is seen as blessed by the Maker, is probably the one place in all of Thedas neither side wants to desecrate. 

 

[spolier alert]

 

 

I agree. Justina V was afraid the Templars would want to assassinate her. Wynne stated the attempt on Justina V could have been a set-up by the Templars. Two possible groups behind this could be the libertarians and the Templars. Or and outsider using them.

 

"The Urn of Sacred Ashes temple is probably the single most neutral ground on hand. And since the mages and templars are, for the most part, believers after 1000 years of being raised in the Chantry, and the site is seen as blessed by the Maker, is probably the one place in all of Thedas neither side wants to desecrate. "

 

Good point. But what if the Tevinter Magistrate Black Divine is using Temples or Libertarians to get rid of the Chantry. I thought it was interesting that Lambert's best friend was the Black Divine. Sure Lambert claimed to hate Tevinter. Yes, Lambert is dead but what if there are others like him.

 

A little information I found unnerving. 

 

Who can see or sense Cole outside the Fade?

 

Someone wanting death

 

A medium Rhys

 

Spirits and demons can sense Cole

 

Did i miss anyone?

 

Cole could sense something different in Wynne and Lambert? Something he was afraid of but no one else could see or fill.

 

We know Wynne had the spirit of Faith and was secretly working with Justina V before she died.

 

Could Lambert been working with the Black Divine???? Knowingly or unknowingly

 

Freedom of the mages does not equal Tevinter unless you completely wipe out the Chantry. The Chantry has its flaws but the overall message was servitude. This is in direct conflict with Tevinter Social Darwinism.

 

If Tevinter can destroy the Chantry, then they can ally with like minded mages and take over the other Kingdoms. This will provide them with an endless supply of slaves.

Just a thought

[Giggles_Manically]

I just had an idea how the conference could kill thousands with that blast. 

 

What if a lot of people were on a pilgrimage to see the Urn?

Or both sides were to scared to come in small numbers so they each brought a lot of people?

 

Imagine the negative effect on morale the blast will have.

Thousands die and the Urn gets blown to bits, as well as probably the Divine and a lot of moderates.

 

All in all it kinda reminds me of Moriarty's scheme in the second Sherlock Holmes movie. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think the "something different" Cole sensed in Lambert could have been that he was already on red lyrium. We know that's going to be rampant in ex-seekers/templars by time we get to Inquisition. I think some of the higher positioned people in the orders were probably using in measured doses before the break and they've been encouraging it in the lower ranks. Lambert's level of fanaticism seemed close to what we saw from Meredith and he was very powerful. It seems most likely to me that they had a connection for red lyrium before the break, though. They had three years since Meredith's death to find the source and begin distribution. It seems more likely to me that it was already happening before the break than that they secured the connection and it immediately spread like wildfire after the break. 

[Cobra's_back]

I think the "something different" Cole sensed in Lambert could have been that he was already on red lyrium. We know that's going to be rampant in ex-seekers/templars by time we get to Inquisition. I think some of the higher positioned people in the orders were probably using in measured doses before the break and they've been encouraging it in the lower ranks. Lambert's level of fanaticism seemed close to what we saw from Meredith and he was very powerful. It seems most likely to me that they had a connection for red lyrium before the break, though. They had three years since Meredith's death to find the source and begin distribution. It seems more likely to me that it was already happening before the break than that they secured the connection and it immediately spread like wildfire after the break. 

 

Wow! Good point I forgot about that. It fits the game really well. Looks like we could have a Red Templar or Extremist Mages who want to blow up the peace conference. 

 

 

EDIT: Questions:

Spoiler

Does it say anything about someone taking Red Lyrium and being able to sense spirits? I knew Lambert was able to sense Cole early in the story.

[Aimi]

I just had an idea how the conference could kill thousands with that blast. 
 
What if a lot of people were on a pilgrimage to see the Urn?
Or both sides were to scared to come in small numbers so they each brought a lot of people?
 
Imagine the negative effect on morale the blast will have.
Thousands die and the Urn gets blown to bits, as well as probably the Divine and a lot of moderates.
 
All in all it kinda reminds me of Moriarty's scheme in the second Sherlock Holmes movie.

Peace conferences rarely involve just the ambassadors from all of the relevant parties. Those ambassadors have political advisors, military consultants, guards, and social retinues. They have to have camp followers to keep the group supplied with both basic necessities and with, ah, vanity items. Their governments often place various kinds of watchdogs in the group to ensure that their plenipotentiaries follow policy instead of striking out on their own lines of negotiation.

Think of the big conferences from history, like the negotiations at Osnabrück and Münster that ended the Thirty Years' War in 1648, or the Vienna congress in 1814-15 that reordered post-Napoleonic Europe. Those were huge events with thousands of direct and indirect participants.

Actually, the most interesting aspect of the summit is the fact that summit diplomacy was pretty uncommon in medieval Europe. The notion that multilateral negotiations attempting to satisfy the desires of as many participants as possible was an evolutionary step in diplomacy - drawn explicitly from the example of Christian synods and ecumenical councils. Had the mage-Templar conflict taken place in the Europe of the fourteenth century or so, there would probably not have been such a summit.

Then again, Thedas is not Europe, and its history differs a great deal. Thedosian states have already participated in meaningful multilateral negotiations, namely the Llomerryn Accords. (Which incorporate ideas seen in European history in two key treaties from the seventeenth century: the Westphalian treaties previously mentioned, and the Treaty of Karlowitz of 1699.) With Llomerryn as an exemplar, summit diplomacy is clearly a Thing in Thedas; what would have been faintly ridiculous for Europe is perfectly justifiable in this context.

[Giggles_Manically]

I wonder if the Conference even stood a chance though.

 

Like was it just people screaming "SUBMIT HEATHENS" or "MAGE FREEDOM!" at each other Just like the forums.....

Like why blow up a conference that was going NOWHERE

Unless it was coming close to solving things that is.

Or maybe it was just to kill the leaders willing to negotiate.

 

All we can know is that someone wanted the war to continue.