6175 réponses à ce sujet

[Nocte ad Mortem]

When I first heard about Cole, I thought he would be more adult-like after Asunder. I was interested in him as an Evan Peters look-alike LI, I'm not gonna lie. I'd still be all over it if they re-worked the character a little, no shame. I can respect the decision not to, though, as well. Cole is still one of my favorite characters, either way. 

[Omikuji]

It seemed like at the end of Asunder he had a different tune to him, not as fearful and more obvious to step it up. From the survey entry on him (which I don't really like to bring up, but it seems 100% legit now so may as well use the information given from it) it sounds like he's going to be matured, but the memories of the 'Cole' is still all he has as a reference to how he will act in many situations.

 

Even then if he regained those spirit memories and is older or something, he'd still be something of a spirit. I don't think they really romance it up (Not including Anders since he was an abom, the comparison between Cole to a spirit would be more like romancing Justice)

[Shaen Mac Tir]

If anyone is interested in my theory of the connection between Cole, Old Gods and Flemeth, I will translate it from russian and post it here, but I should warn you, it's a lot of text, assumptions, loose guesses and sometimes even pure insanity

would be more like romancing Justice)

 

I liked Justice. And, if I remember correctly, he said that he was "jealous" of what Kristoff and Ora had. So, I think spirits are not completely unaware of love and similar feelings. Cole himself was a bit confused when Evangeline kissed him, and once or twice mentioned that females were pretty.

Cole is still one of my favorite characters, either way. 

 

I'm glad I'm not alone

[Nocte ad Mortem]

It seemed like at the end of Asunder he had a different tune to him, not as fearful and more obvious to step it up. From the survey entry on him (which I don't really like to bring up, but it seems 100% legit now so may as well use the information given from it) it sounds like he's going to be matured, but the memories of the 'Cole' is still all he has as a reference to how he will act in many situations.

 

Even then if he regained those spirit memories and is older or something, he'd still be something of a spirit. I don't think they really romance it up (Not including Anders since he was an abom, the comparison between Cole to a spirit would be more like romancing Justice)

The spirit thing is basically it, because we don't have any examples of spirits partaking in sexual/romantic relationships in the way other races do. We know desire demons have sex, but this could easily be for reasons besides actually enjoying sex. It's possible that spirits just don't operate this way. That's something we've yet to learn about them. Like.. most things about them, really. 

[Omikuji]

The spirit thing is basically it, because we don't have any examples of spirits partaking in sexual/romantic relationships in the way other races do. We know desire demons have sex, but this could easily be for reasons besides actually enjoying sex. It's possible that spirits just don't operate this way. That's something we've yet to learn about them. Like.. most things about them, really. 

Hopefully there will be a flood of information on them with how the game seems to be focusing on Demons/Spirits and the Fade. They have always been my favorite aspect of DA games (along with their relationship with Mages and the mages in general). I figured the Desire demons more or less had sex because that's what they fed on? That, 'desire' and they take advantage of it, relished in it, and desire isn't only the relm of sex is it?

 

(maybe I need to freshen up on the demons we know of, I feel really rusty on it)

 

 

 

I liked Justice. And, if I remember correctly, he said that he was "jealous" of what Kristoff and Ora had. So, I think spirits are not completely unaware of love and similar feelings. Cole himself was a bit confused when Evangeline kissed him, and once or twice mentioned that females were pretty.

I have nothing on Justice because I played Awakening so long ago and barely remember him aside from the Anders thing. So I'll get back to you on that when I play a little CSI on it As for Cole I do remember him off handedly mentioning the prettiness of Adrian and Eva, but it seemed like such a passing thought for him, stating the fact almost with nothing more behind it. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Hopefully there will be a flood of information on them with how the game seems to be focusing on Demons/Spirits and the Fade. They have always been my favorite aspect of DA games (along with their relationship with Mages and the mages in general). I figured the Desire demons more or less had sex because that's what they fed on? That, 'desire' and they take advantage of it, relished in it, and desire isn't only the relm of sex is it?

 

(maybe I need to freshen up on the demons we know of, I feel really rusty on it)

I believe desire demons likely just have sex with their targets because it's the easiest way for them to gain influence. Desire demons manipulate people in a number of ways, always exploiting their wants to gain control of them. If they can get something they want by giving the target physical pleasure then, all in all, it's a lot easier mark than those that want things like power or material gain. 

[Maria Caliban]

My guess leans towards Patrick Weekes writing Solas. It's mostly that I think Solas makes the most sense for blending with The Masked Empire and the Eluvian/elf plot.

I figured it was Sheryl.

I believe desire demons likely just have sex with their targets because it's the easiest way for them to gain influence. Desire demons manipulate people in a number of ways, always exploiting their wants to gain control of them. If they can get something they want by giving the target physical pleasure then, all in all, it's a lot easier mark than those that want things like power or material gain.

For a desire demon, feeding off another's sexual desire or pleasure might be pleasurable as well. Demons seem to crave the various experiences of the 'real' world.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

For a desire demon, feeding off another's sexual desire or pleasure might be pleasurable as well. Demons seem to crave the various experiences of the 'real' world.

That is also a good point and very possible. 

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Demons seem to crave the various experiences of the 'real' world. 

 

That's key for understanding why they at all want to possess living things.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

All right, folks, here is my theory on Cole. I wrote it after the first teaser of DAI was released, so it may lack any newest info.

Warning! A lot of text. A lot of text, really. It doesn't explain everything we know, but I tried my best to tie all loose ends into one neatly looking theory. It's open for any critique if you feel the need to do so. Again, sorry for occasional mistakes in my English.

Spoiler

So, what do we actually know about the Old Gods? They were worshipped thousands years ago, and they were the ones who brought magic to humans. All the magic, as we know, descends from the Fade, therefore it would make sense to assume that the OGs themselves are the creatures not from the physical world, but from the Fade and probably the worlds beyond the Fade. They came to people in the form of dragons, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s their true form; it’s just that this form was the most suitable for them. All other dragons except the OGs are more like simple animals. I personally think that the OGs are related not only to Tevinter and the Empire of Dragon Worshippers, but also to the elven myths about gods, because their descriptions of the forgotten ones do remind of the myth about the OGs being exiled underground by the Maker. But those are only the physical forms of the OGs which are confined underground, whereas their true form (the Fade form) is imprisoned somewhere in the Fade; it’s cut off from Thedas, that’s why the OGs could only reach the Magisters and call them to the Golden City by promising the power of gods (it may also be an allusion to “free our souls and we will return to the world and give you the power as our servants”). One can see there’s a parallel with the elven legends, where Fen’Harel confined some gods underground and some gods in the heavens. I have a pretty insane theory that the elven gods are actually the OGs, which were divided into a physical part and a Fade part, respectively; the physical part was imprisoned underground and the Fade part locked up in the Golden City (“the heavens”).

So, the Magisters were going to storm the Golden City in order to free the souls of their gods and let them come back to the world. The thing is, the Golden City was cut off from other parts of the Fade with some kind of magical spell, or a seal, which kept them from re-joining their bodies. The Magisters created a tunnel to the Fade, but they somehow disrupted the natural course of things by getting into it in their physical forms. As a result, something went really wrong; they broke the seal, but they did it roughly and not understanding what they were doing, which led to the emergence of Taint. Fen’Harel (aka Maker, aka Trickster) could have prepared for the case of such a storm when the breach of the magical seal would automatically entail the release of the curse of Taint making the return of the OGs practically impossible.

As a result, the OGs’ souls came back to the world but they were weakened, powerless and sick. The OGs immersed into lethargy and woke up only when found by the Darkspawn and infected with Taint, but even then they were in some kind of sleep; the Archdemons are only a small fragment of the OGs’ souls, which woke up with nothing but fierce hunger and hatred to all the living. The OGs’ calling could be a reference to the music of lyrium, the sounds of the Fade, which again proves my theory that the OGs are the creatures of pure magic. There is however one way to purify an OG’s soul which was described to us by Morrigan; the Dark Ritual. Obviously this Ritual was known to Flemeth long before Morrigan told us about it.

And here emerges the question about Flemeth. Here are my guesses that she is actually an OG. Firstly, she knows about the Dark Ritual and interested in keeping Urthemiel alive and pure to come back to the world. Secondly, she tries very hard to keep the dragons alive (theoretically, the form of dragons is the most suitable and advantageous for the OGs, that’s why their extinction is not acceptable for the OGs). Thirdly, she helped to fight the Blight, because Taint is just as much a threat for the OGs as it is for the rest of Thedas. By defeating the Taint, the OGs could reincarnate in all their former glory. Fourthly, she is obviously immortal. The destruction of her physical body does not lead to the destruction of her soul. It seems that is the way she first learned of the Dark Ritual’s point and changed her bodies in that way; she also knows of the ability to store copies of herself in items (the amulet). Fifthly, she can change her appearances, representing herself in forms of humans or dragons or who knows what else. Sixthly, she knows about the elves and is likely to be one of the forgotten ones to them. Why doesn’t she reveal herself to the elves or the Magisters? It’s because she’s weakened and waiting for the moment when the OGs could be able to come back to the world in order to destroy the Maker cult. That’s why she hides her true self until then, waiting for a perfect moment and sometimes rearranging the pieces on a chessboard like Hero of Ferelden and Hawke. She obviously opposes the Trickster aka Maker aka Fen’Harel, who is determined to rule over the Fade and Thedas on his own, not to share this power with the OGs. Both of them view people in the game as their pawns, but they also need them…

There is a reasonable question why. It’s simple. The gods always need followers. Belief in the gods gives them strength. There are very few Dragon Cults which worship the OGs, therefore the OGs need to seek the alternative ways to make the faithful return to them. Flemeth is respected and revered by the elves and the chasind at least, that’s why she possesses some power, but she is still too weak to directly influence the alignment of pieces and can only make adjustments from time to time. And she, like any OG, needs sacrifices to maintain her existence and connection to her Fade part. Remember what Morrigan told us about? Flemeth lured people in her cabin and done “things” with them… interesting things, and then killed them. For what? Obviously to obtain some power from them. Here we can see the parallel with Tevinter customs of sacrificing slaves to the OGs. Blood magic, for all we know, thins and rips the Veil. Therefore it is assumed that the OGs draw their power from the Fade itself, they need channels leading from the spiritual world into our one to maintain their physical existence.

Thus, the OGs need the following to be able to come back:

1) to save as many OGs as possible by using the Dark Ritual;

2) to destroy their enemy, Maker, who has confined them;

3) to destroy the Taint;

4) to make sacrifices which are substantially complex rituals of blood magic;

5) to create tunnels from the Fade leading into the physical world and vice versa;

6) to preserve the dragons as the most suitable bodies which can be possessed by an OG.

All those things were done or tried to be done by Flemeth during all DA games, comics or books. That’s why, in my opinion, she is actually one of the purified and reborn OGs, likely the first of them who had been saved by the Dark Ritual. And now let us consider Cole directly and his small role in all those events.

Judging by all we know about him and his family, his mother was a part of some “ancient people”, the only thing of which she had brought with her being the well-known dagger.  She kept it for some reason, even when she had fled to Orlais, but even there she was given a cold shoulder; that’s why, IMHO, her family was living in the suburbs. What exactly this “ancient people” means? It could be not only elves, but also tribes of dragon-worshippers; the latter are even more possible than the elves who don’t commonly worship the dragons. And it could be Tevinter. My insane theory assumes that Cole’s mother descended from a line which was secretly practicing dragon-worshipping in Tevinter. It’s likely her family descended from the ancient Magisters and kept their heathen beliefs; the ritual dagger was used for sacrifices and was traditionary until it’s ritualistic function had been the only one people knew about, and that it is also likely to be magical. In fact, the dagger was the same that the amuler was to Flemeth – that is, an item carrying a spare copy of an OG in it. How and when it was created is unknown, but something made Cole’s mother to take the weapon with her when she fled from Tevinter to Orlais. The reason for her escape or exile is unknown, but it seems his mother wasn’t a mage. She could probably left to Orlais for this specific reason. But magic has always been strong in her line; therefore her son was born with the gift. She prudently hid the dagger burying it in the garden; her son accidentally saw it and dug it out. Why did he do this? Maybe he was hearing the OGs’ calling? Maybe he was vaguely aware of its magical nature? You can speculate, but the following is interesting: he used the dagger to kill his own father. He actually made a sacrifice to the OG confined in the dagger. The OG obtained some power, and a magical bond between him and Cole was formed in that moment. The main part of the OG remained in the dagger, but some of him may had transferred into Cole directly as a source of power (don’t forget he was a mage!). The next events were as follows: Cole was captured by the templars and took to the White Spire. The templars didn’t notice any dagger on the boy, because the weapon possesses the same powers as Cole does later; namely to become invisible. The story of templars forgetting Cole in the cell is rather hazy itself; judging by what we learned from the book, Cole was praying to someone in his cell… to whom? To the Maker? I doubt that.  The fact is that someone who answered his prayers was not the Maker at all, it was actually the soul of an OG locked up inside the dagger. One way or another, Cole died (but did he just starve or committed ritual suicide which he had subsequently forgotten?). The power accumulated in the Pit where the Veil was uncommonly thin due to all those mages who died there, as well as the power of two ritual sacrifices (Cole’s father + himself), was able to free the OG’s soul from the dagger and let it merge with the remnants of the soul of person named Cole, and to create itself a new physical body. But something went really wrong, and the OG lost a part of its personality, immersed into some king of lethargic sleep, and replaced its original personality with what had been left of Cole who it had absorbed. The dagger seized to be a repository for it, and subsequently was of an exclusively ritual character. Thus, with the help of the dagger, Cole unconsciously sacrificed the mages, fed on their power released by blood magic from their lives. When he met Rhys, his powers grew a bit, because belief is just as important to the gods as blood magic. And Rhys believes in him. Later he became even stronger and could even use his power to shield other people from the eyes, when Leliana and Wynne and Evangeline also believed in him. Cole’s moral precepts vaguely resemble those of a human, but just vaguely; it’s like some kind of alien creature tried to convince itself that it is actually human, as well as to convince the others. We can see Cole trying his best to please Rhys and Evangeline, but at the same time he is not aware of moral foundations deep inside his mind. In other words, he doesn’t differentiate between good and evil abstractly, good is to please Rhys and the others for Cole, evil is to lose their faith or to lose them physically, that’s why he is all protective to them. They are, in fact, his first followers. Surely he is not aware of all this and sincerely believes he is human. Only when his powers are drained, he starts to act in a different manner: he kills people. He thinks he is falling into the darkness, but actually he is falling back to the Fade because the threads between real world and the Fade and becoming thinner. That’s why he also could choose the Pit as his place of living; the Fade there is most thin.

The moment he loses Rhys’s faith is also showing. It’s important to consider not only Rhys’s belief that Cole is human or demon, but also his loyalty and helpfulness, i.e. his belief in whether he is “good” or “evil”. In that moment, Cole sinks into the Fade and loses his connection to the physical world. Later he comes back and… bingo! He makes another sacrifice, Lambert this time, with fully understanding of who he is. Why did he come back? I don’t really have an answer to this or even a more or less likely theory. Maybe all that stuff with demons pouring through the torn Veil has something to do with it. I think that maybe Corypheus had something to do with it being a priest of Dumat and interested in the returning of the OGs. Nevertheless, he suddenly could return, and he does so, killing Lambert in an instant. His words are showing: “I am no longer helpless”; I personally believe that it means he became stronger. According to DAI trailer, we can see huge Veil tears in the sky and demons pouring from them down, and also a great increase in the amount of dragons all over the world… And dragons, as presumed before, are the most suitable form for the OGs, a body they can possess with maximum comfort. It’s obvious someone has prepared the world for their invasion and the returning of the OGs; we can see it when Cole comes back to the world, this time with no amnesia or personal distress.

What will happen with him and other OGs in the future? We’ll see it in “Inquisition”…

[Faerah]

Everyone is being so civilized and thoughtful in this thread, I'm so proud of you right now BSN. *tears up*

 

Fan Art by Alfeegi

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Cole fans tend to be civilized and thoughtful thoughout the internet

It's sad I've run out of my likes here...

[efd731]

I'm glad to see Cole as a companion, but I think you're wrong about how the companions might react. Unless Cassandra somehow realizes he is the "ghost of the white spire" I think she'd be fine with him. But DHMG and Solas could easily not be his friends. Mages are taught all their lives to fear spirits, and if Solas has traditional Dalish values, not only will he be anti-cole, he will be intensely aware of what*(inhuman) cole is. If DHMG is(Dorian) a tevinter renegade, he might not view spirits as negatively as a circle Mage, but it's hard to see him being okay with traveling alongside one, especially with a Mage inquisitor.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

I have another question concerning Cole: I've noticed that in almost every fanart piece he is portrayed having blue eyes. It is true or his eye color is just assumed to be blue, maybe it has been mentioned in the book? I don't think so, but I may be forgetting...

[Faerah]

It wasn't mentioned as far as I know, just artistic licensing I suppose.

[dragondreamer]

I don't remember Cole's eye color ever being described...  So blue eyes is probably a fanon?

 

Solas is unlikely to be Dalish (no tattoos).  Being a Fade expert, he might take an intellectual interest in Cole.  

 

And Dalish are apparently quite varied in how they view interaction with spirits anyway.  (Not opening that can of worms here, nope.)

[EkhidnaDrakaina]

I think a romance with Cole as a mage Inquisitor could be really interesting. Especially given the Inquisitor's connection to the Fade.
I can appreciate David's reaction, though, and he's the only one who could make such a romance plot work. C'est la vie.

A romance scene with Cole might involve making pottery.

[CENIC]

A romance scene with Cole might involve making pottery.

I see what you did there, and I'm still laughing. FUND IT.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

A romance scene with Cole might involve making pottery.

 

Hmmm, I have always imagined it to invole cookie making, but heh...

I just love cookies and hope that Cole would like them!

[XMissWooX]

Hmmm, I have always imagined it to invole cookie making, but heh...
I just love cookies and hope that Cole would like them!

I believe it was a reference from the film 'Ghost'

[Omikuji]

I figured his eyes are blue as well, a bright icy blue. Makes the 'haunted eyes' more striking with bright eyes in my opinion.

 

The little sculpt figure I made of him I decided on light blue, because I thought at one point in the book it was mentioned blue eyes but when I went back for reference it wasn't such. I hope he does have blue eyes though, or just a lighter color. Loads of brown eyed characters as it is.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

I figured his eyes are blue as well, a bright icy blue. Makes the 'haunted eyes' more striking with bright eyes in my opinion.

 

I think more of black or dark-brown eyes because they tend to create the 'haunted look' along with blonde hair. Much like this:

Spoiler

The little sculpt figure I made of him

 

Ooooooh. Shiny. Can we see it?

[EkhidnaDrakaina]

I believe it was a reference from the film 'Ghost'

Right

[Omikuji]

I think more of black or dark-brown eyes because they tend to create the 'haunted look' along with blonde hair. Much like this:

Spoiler

Ooooooh. Shiny. Can we see it?

 I know he's the person that Gaider describes Cole as looking (I forget his name but I regonize him from the posts Gaider did with him) , but I still would hope his eyes being light D8  

 

Right now I'm working on finishing all of the companions before I show them, they're derpy. Oh and I also made him before the reveal, I put him in blue rather then red XD

[Faerah]

^That would be Evan Peters.