6175 réponses à ce sujet

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think spirits and demons are just a sliding scale of the same creature and Cole is moving around the middle for now.   

[XMissWooX]

I'm not all that surprised about Iron Bull's reaction to Cole. He's a Qunari, and the Qun is about being a part of something bigger than yourself. I can see why he might not care what Cole is beyond 'an ally, part of the team'.

 

Sera's reaction is a little more surprising, considering they both share the values of helping the innocent. But ultimately, I can't blame anyone for being a bit leery about Cole (I'm hoping his 'good intentions' are made clear early on so I can justify recruiting him) because he is unknown and dangerous. I think calling him "it" is a little harsh, but I can't force everyone to like each other.

 

Hopefully, as Cole starts to prove himself reliable, Sera (and perhaps the others) might come to [grudgingly] accept him.

[BlueFlame527]

Random question but does anyone know if it is possible for one fade being to overtake another? With all the demons pouring in I would think that there might be an instance where a more powerful demon might corrupt Cole.

[Arvaarad]

I think spirits and demons are just a sliding scale of the same creature and Cole is moving around the middle for now.

I'm not even convinced that there's a single spectrum going on. I think it's more like, every spirit has driving forces, and whether those driving forces end up being good or evil depends entirely on the context in which they're applied. I think, just like mortals, spirits can switch back and forth freely between "good" and "evil" actions, depending on how their characteristics interact with the given situation.

Now obviously, for something like a rage demon, most of their actions will end up being evil, because there's not a lot of situations where rage is a positive. But things like desire demons are more likely to run into situations where they end up doing something positive.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I'm not even convinced that there's a single spectrum going on. I think it's more like, every spirit has driving forces, and whether those driving forces end up being good or evil depends entirely on the context in which they're applied. I think, just like mortals, spirits can switch back and forth freely between "good" and "evil" actions, depending on how their characteristics interact with the given situation.

Now obviously, for something like a rage demon, most of their actions will end up being evil, because there's not a lot of situations where rage is a positive. But things like desire demons are more likely to run into situations where they end up doing something positive.

That's probably more accurate, honestly.

 

Spirits/demons seem to have a tendency to get obsessed with a single concept and most of their decisions seem to be based around that, in some way. Their focus can be applied in a myriad of positive and negative ways. What I would think was interesting, also, is what would happen if they gave up on their virtue/vice entirely. What happens if a faith spirit wants to jump the track and become a compassion spirit, instead? Can they do that? Or are they locked in once they get started on a path? 

[Gwydden]

That's probably more accurate, honestly.

 

Spirits/demons seem to have a tendency to get obsessed with a single concept and most of their decisions seem to be based around that, in some way. Their focus can be applied in a myriad of positive and negative ways. What I would think was interesting, also, is what would happen if they gave up on their virtue/vice entirely. What happens if a faith spirit wants to jump the track and become a compassion spirit, instead? Can they do that? Or are they locked in once they get started on a path? 

I think it comes down to whether a spirit is capable of wanting to be something else. We have been given to understand they lack in imagination and creativity. We know Cole wants to change but would that be the case if he hadn't absorbed a mortal's memories, and therefore some of their psyche?

[Arvaarad]

That's probably more accurate, honestly.

Spirits/demons seem to have a tendency to get obsessed with a single concept and most of their decisions seem to be based around that, in some way. Their focus can be applied in a myriad of positive and negative ways. What I would think was interesting, also, is what would happen if they gave up on their virtue/vice entirely. What happens if a faith spirit wants to jump the track and become a compassion spirit, instead? Can they do that? Or are they locked in once they get started on a path?

I wonder what gives spirits their drive in the first place. When they're a lowly proto-spirit, do they come across a dreaming person and latch on to the strongest emotion? Are all spirits "recycled" spirits that just go with whichever emotion they were before they got wisped? Do spirits have preferences, like food? Like, "hey, I like feeding on desire best, but I also like compassion too"?

[SnakeCode]

I really hope he does turn out to be a demon, we're yet to learn much about them, and we haven't had sustained interaction with one yet in the games. I'll be disappointed if he turns out to be yet another "benevolent" spirit within (or at least around)  the main party.

[ElitePinecone]

Wouldn't it be interesting, though, if Compassion spirits/Despair demons were the same thing in essence? They're both drawn to the same emotion, the difference is how they respond to it. And that sort of difference can be put down to a choice, not a binary state of being.

 

I am not too familiar with my demonology, but I do remember some lore that suggested demons and spirits were two manifestations of the same human emotions, in either destructive or constructive ways. 

 

If a spirit of justice can become a demonic force of vengeance, I suppose a spirit drawn to despair could fixate itself on compassion instead. 

 

(Doesn't the codex suggest that the categories of "spirit" and "demon" are pretty meaningless, since both are the same thing?)

[The Elder King]

A lot of people are acting like certain things are confirmed and set in stone when they have not been. They take a piece of what David said and apply it to all things everywhere.

Well, that's another matter. Though as i said, I don't recall if Gaider talked about Asunder Cole or Cole in general (possibly post-Asunder).

[SnakeCode]

People were speculating that Cole was some sort of spirit of compassion, weren't they?

 

I think that's a really interesting theory.

Not a fan of this theory. He didn't show Lambert or the innocent templars he killed any compassion. It's also up for debate whether the mages he killed were truly mercy killings. 

 

I maintain that the primary drive behind his penchant for murder was the fear that he would fade away/completely disappear if he didn't end lives. He was compelled to kill those people.

[AkiKishi]

Cole the angel of death... 

[Zellya]

Not a fan of this theory. He didn't show Lambert or the innocent templars he killed any compassion. It's also up for debate whether the mages he killed were truly mercy killings. 

 

I maintain that the primary drive behind his penchant for murder was the fear that he would fade away/completely disappear if he didn't end lives. He was compelled to kill those people.

 

The theory was that the Cole we see in Asunder USED TO BE a spirit of Compassion, which makes sense when you think of the context of what happened to the original Cole. That the spirit of Compassion went to comfort the trapped and abused Cole as he was locked away and forgotten. Whether that spirit tried to save Cole when he died and ended up becoming a Wynne-like abomination only with the the spirit dominant, or the death of the original Cole was some sort of emotional catalyst for him to become something else (good, evil, or otherwise) is an entirely different matter all together. 

 

Honestly as an origin story, I think this is pretty right on the mark, especially with what Asunder Cole declared to remember at the very end of the novel.

 

I'm not going to go into with you on whether or not what he did was merciful or not (or at least why he perceived it as such) because you've clearly made up your mind on the subject, as have I. Which is completely fine :3

[Panda]

Debate of what Cole really is, is quite intresting. My theory is that Cole has possessed body that hasn't died so he hasn't possessed corpse. The boy "Cole" however has died, brain death or something similar. I believe in this because current Cole eats, feels and grows, the boy Cole died when he was close to 12 years old but current Cole's body is close to 20. I doubt corpse could grow up. Still it seems like spirit or whatever Cole is hosting the living body without it's original owner has some caused some visible problems. Or then Cole hasn't been eating and sleeping etc. how human should, since he's from fade he might not know that well about humans basic needs.

 

Then there is discussion if he's spirit, demon or something else. My vote goes for corrupted spirit similar as Justice. He has become accustomated to this world and influenced by it, but I don't see him as manipulate and wanting as demons are. Spirit of Mercy or Compassion sounds most close to me.

[Clockwork_Wings]

You know what I wanna see?  A Merril cameo...with Cole in the party.

[Hellion Rex]

 

http://orisoni.tumblr.com/

[Leoroc]

Well, that's another matter. Though as i said, I don't recall if Gaider talked about Asunder Cole or Cole in general (possibly post-Asunder).

To me it came off as Cole how he write him. We now have a new writer with a Cole who has clearly changed  since Asunder. Grown. I may still be wrong but it looks less and less likely I am as we get more info. 

 

Those who say something is confirmed (like LI status) are making assumptions just as much as anyone on this board.

[MisterJB]

So, Cole is a Creature of the Fade who is trying to be a spirit rather than a demon.

That's...unique. People in fiction struggling between doing what is right has been done many times before but never to the point where the way you act and view the world will, literally, change what you are on a biological level if the term can be applied to spirits and demons.

 

It could be really interesting.

[David Gaider]

A lot of people are acting like certain things are confirmed and set in stone when they have not been. They take a piece of what David said and apply it to all things everywhere.

 

Yep. I was referring to his ability to comfortably form consent... which (in my mind) requires a certain level of maturity and understanding.

 

I am not, however, the final arbiter of what qualifies as consent. Also, the chances you'll get an unbiased answer regarding Cole from me are approximately zero (just ask Patrick). Either way, it's important to remember that Cole is not human. There are a lot of things that people will try to draw direct comparisons to, and that's a dicey thing to do with a character like him--particularly for people who are arguing about a character they've yet to encounter.

[LobselVith8]

You know what I wanna see?  A Merril cameo...with Cole in the party.

 

Why would Cole be in Merrill's company? The cataclysm at the beginning of the narrative might have drawn his attention (since he might have lost friends as a result), but I'd imagine she would have other things on her mind. She might be interested in the Arlathvenn, or in helping the Champion (if Hawke was her love interest) deal with the crisis of the Breach.

[TK514]

You know what I wanna see?  A Merril cameo...with Cole in the party.

This has the potential for hilarity.

[The Elder King]

To me it came off as Cole how he write him. We now have a new writer with a Cole who has clearly changed  since Asunder. Grown. I may still be wrong but it looks less and less likely I am as we get more info. 
 
Those who say something is confirmed (like LI status) are making assumptions just as much as anyone on this board.

I'D agree that he changed between Most of Asunder and the end (when he realized what he is), but I honestly don't see nothing that lead me to think he might became interested in sexuality. The contrary, actually.
That's just my opinion, of course. We'll see how Patrick developed him.

[Tootles FTW]

If he's indeed an option, Iron Bull's acceptance of Cole pretty much cements him as my #1 target for love interest in my first playthrough.

I don't take his "he just needs some bad women" comment as anything other than well-intentioned ignorance over the extent of Cole's immaturity - I'm sure the outside world perceives Cole to be a sheltered, naive young adult.  No real problem in suggesting he needs to get laid, really, since a "young man" is the assumption you're working with.  It's the same reason why some people who haven't read Asunder are letting their panties burst aflame at the sight of Cole...appearances are deceiving.  

 

I wonder when we'll get Cole?  It seems Vivienne's little costume party might be early-ish in the game (as it sets up our association with Empress Celene), which would be a shame if Cole isn't present and able to attend.  It'd be interesting to see him at a party.

[Roninbarista]

I find Cole creepy, yet compelling. I think he will make a good companion/addition to the Inquisition, in spite of my personal reservations.

[Faerah]

I wonder when we'll get Cole?  It seems Vivienne's little costume party might be early-ish in the game (as it sets up our association with Empress Celene), which would be a shame if Cole isn't present and able to attend.  It'd be interesting to see him at a party.

I have this strange, terrible feeling that I'll be actively looking for him in all of the wrong places, prolonging actually finding him where I don't expect him to be.  I mean on the first playthrough of course, when the internet isn't full of information yet and my playthrough will be horrible, chaotic, and a lot like: