i believe they burned it. burying or dumping it in the sea or something isn't truly erasing it. plus don't they often burn their dead in thedas because corpses can be possessed by demons.
also i believe original cole will have died of dehyration not starvation
Yes, they do burn the dead in Thedus. Look at the after math of red cliff and the circle tower uprising.
Wonder if spirit "Cole" got too close when real "Cole" died , and when the soul of the kid went through the fade , well some connexion happened and maybe Spirit Cole got a piece of the real Cole soul stuck inside of him?
Would explain the trauma , and the fact that he felt like he was pulled into an abyss from time to time.
Souls in DA journey through the fade to an unknown place where they disappear.
People souls don't go to the fade when they die. Justice comferms this.
Wonder if spirit "Cole" got too close when real "Cole" died , and when the soul of the kid went through the fade , well some connexion happened and maybe Spirit Cole got a piece of the real Cole soul stuck inside of him?
Would explain the trauma , and the fact that he felt like he was pulled into an abyss from time to time.
Souls in DA journey through the fade to an unknown place where they disappear.
I've thought about the original Cole still being "in there" somewhere/somehow still. It would be an interesting twist if we're lead to believe he is definitely a spirit/demon all along and then suddenly we find out the truth that the original Cole is still in there.
I think, if you did the math, probably more of our total companions across game than not have killed people before you recruit them. I don't see a reason to make this one the special case. I respect that some people feel otherwise, but I can much more easily accept Cole's choice to mercy kill those in hopeless situations than the choices of characters like Sten and Isabela that led to the murders of complete innocents that wanted to live. I still would give those two their chance of redemption, as well, though. What's the alternative? A couple more bodies on the pile?
People souls don't go to the fade when they die. Justice comferms this.
They do.
In The Silent Grove , yavana pulls a soul from the fade into a guy dying corpse to keep on torturing him a bit.
I think what it is and what it looks like are far less important than what it has done. Frankly I'm a bit alarmed at how quickly the fact that Cole habitually murdered children for years seems to be getting so easily brushed aside because of how it looks and what it might or might not be.
Hmm... I've actually read posts regarding this, and have been thinking about how to word it right... Here goes:
I don't brush it aside at all. What he did was horrific, no doubt. However, i would make the argument that he may not have realized what he was doing was wrong. Or, alternatively - what did it matter if it was? It filled a need, and there really wasn't any reason not to. It wasn't like he'd be punished. it wasn't like anyone would care. And I genuinely believe the moral implications of ending someone's life were at that time mostly beyond him. Not that all this makes it okay, but it does make it understandable.
Fast forward to his befriending Rhys. Suddenly there is someone who cares. Someone who will disapprove, and potentially punish him by not wanting anything to do with him anymore. Sure, that's not a good motivation to stop killing. But it's a motivation. Over the course of the novel, his friendship with Rhys leads him to want to be better. At first it's for selfish reasons, sure (I don't want Rhys to hate me), but I think that's a starting point for him to start thinking about what's right and what's wrong, and why he does things and why he shouldn't. He evolves, and he grows. By the end of the book, i think he's come a lot closer to becoming human (in the ideaological sense, not in the literal sense, since, well, you know...) and all that entails.
So, to sum it up, yes, he did something bad. But now he wants to be good. He wants to help others. I think that's worth giving him the opportunity to earn my trust.
I think what it is and what it looks like are far less important than what it has done. Frankly I'm a bit alarmed at how quickly the fact that Cole habitually murdered children for years seems to be getting so easily brushed aside because of how it looks and what it might or might not be.
Small point of contention, because I think you might have forgotten how the book's plot actually goes: Cole's killing streak isn't years long. It consists of six people and starts less than a year before the book starts, when Rhys stops visiting him. That's sort of the whole plot point that kicks off the "People think Rhys is the killer" starting plot drive of the book. Nevertheless, agreed that the murders are not at all okay, no matter how long or short a period they may have been comitted over.
I'm fairly sure nobody thinks they're okay or is "brushing them aside" - Cole's done terrible things. That said, so have many other complex and interesting characters in the Dragon Age series that I've got to know and liked. Off the top of my head, people who have gone the "I killed a bunch of people and then realised that maybe I shouldn't have" route and still wound up with me liking them a lot as characters: Sten, Fenris, Isabela. The things done in the past are terrible: watching a character who has committed such an act develop and change and grow into the kind of person who wouldn't do such a thing is where the value and interest is, imo.
They do.
In The Silent Grove , yavana pulls a soul from the fade into a guy dying corpse to keep on torturing him a bit.
She takes a spirit from the fade to keep the guy alive, not his soul. His soul did not pass from his body yet. As seen with Evangilen and Wynne if a spirit from the fade gose into the body of someone that just recently died the person became revived. No soul passes into the fade unless a demon or magic traps them their.
I don't think he needs the breach because it wasn't there during Asunder.
Small point of contention, because I think you might have forgotten how the book's plot actually goes: Cole's killing streak isn't years long. It consists of six people and starts less than a year before the book starts, when Rhys stops visiting him. That's sort of the whole plot point that kicks off the "People think Rhys is the killer" starting plot drive of the book. Nevertheless, agreed that the murders are not at all okay, no matter how long or short a period they may have been comitted over.
I'm fairly sure nobody thinks they're okay or is "brushing them aside" - Cole's done terrible things. That said, so have many other complex and interesting characters in the Dragon Age series that I've got to know and liked. Off the top of my head, people who have gone the "I killed a bunch of people and then realised that maybe I shouldn't have" route and still wound up with me liking them a lot as characters: Sten, Fenris, Isabela. The things done in the past are terrible: watching a character who has committed such an act develop and change and grow into the kind of person who wouldn't do such a thing is where the value and interest is, imo.
Oops... seems I got my timeline a bit wrong. The fact still stands that he believes his one sort-of friend isn't going to be coming around anymore, so he has no reason not to kill people - punishment/disapproval/etc. - regardless, that friendship is what makes him grow as a character, and I think he's worthy of redemption.
(Edited because apparently I forgot how to type legibly)
Oops... seems I got my timeline a bit wrong. Still, the fact still stands that he believes his one sort-of friend isn't going to be coming around anymore, so he has no reason not to kill people - punishment/disapproval/etc. - regardless, that friendhsip is what makes him grow as a character, and I think he's worthy of redemption
Actually this conversation made me think...Maybe he's not just helping people now because it's just the right thing to do, but almost for redemption for his past crimes? Like before he did sort of know murder was bad but he still did it because he thought he had to. Now he knows he was wrong and maybe he wants to atone?
Edit: Especially with the quote from Patrick saying "He's trying." in relation to being good, being considered a spirit as opposed to a demon.
She takes a spirit from the fade to keep the guy alive, not his soul. His soul did not pass from his body yet. As seen with Evangilen and Wynne if a spirit from the fade gose into the body of someone that just recently died the person became revived. No soul passes into the fade unless a demon or magic traps them their.
She says "his spirit lingers in the fade."
Not a spirit.
Actually this conversation made me think...Maybe he's not just helping people now because it's just the right thing to do, but almost for redemption for his past crimes? Like before he did sort of know murder was bad but he still did it because he thought he had to. Now he knows he was wrong and maybe he wants to atone?
Edit: Especially with the quote from Patrick saying "He's trying." in relation to being good, being considered a spirit as opposed to a demon.
Could be. Or does he think in terms that complex? It's hard to say until we meet him in the game..,
Ghahh... so many questions. Was it Weekes who said we would be able to ask Cole some of these things in the game? I am going to interrogate that boy soooo much.
Could be. Or does he think in terms that complex? It's hard to say until we meet him in the game..,
Ghahh... so many questions. Was it Weekes who said we would be able to ask Cole some of these things in the game? I am going to interrogate that boy soooo much.
Yep!
Patrick Weekes @PatrickWeekes
3) People are asking many good questions, and you will get to ask Cole himself some of these same questions in game. So wait and see.
Edit: Also Cole is smart and quick to learn, according to Rhys. I'm sure Cole would understand atonement.
I think what it is and what it looks like are far less important than what it has done. Frankly I'm a bit alarmed at how quickly the fact that Cole habitually murdered children for years seems to be getting so easily brushed aside because of how it looks and what it might or might not be.
The timeline was already addressed, but I feel like I need to point out that the emphasis on children isn't entirely accurate. We don't know the age of any of his victims, we only know that most, if not all, were apprentices. Some apprentices in the circle are children, yes, but there are just as many young adults who hadn't gone through their harrowing yet. That being said, The only victim we saw had been a young woman, not a child, and one of the only others described specifically by Rys was mentioned to be an apprentice that no one expect to pass his harrowing, and implied to be in a situation similar to Jowan and likely near his age.
Nowhere did anyone in Asunder fixate on the fact that the murder victims were children, which makes me doubt any of them were.
Yes, they do burn the dead in Thedus. Look at the after math of red cliff and the circle tower uprising.
Andrastians burn their dead because their prophet was killed by "purifying fire", (also because it prevents the bodies from being used as hosts for fade spirits/demons/whatever ) but other cultures have other traditions.
The Dalish for example bury their dead and plant a tree on the grave to represent the cycle of life.
She says "his spirit lingers in the fade."
Not a spirit.
Spirit's in dragon age are not the same thing as souls.
Spirit's in dragon age are not the same thing as souls.
There's no point in debating this , we can't know for sure unless a dev comes around. 
Anyway my point was , about Cole, something must have happened when the kid died.
Because the spirit just forgot who he was , and had only Cole memories /identity left.
There's no point in debating this , we can't know for sure unless a dev comes around.
Anyway my point was , about Cole, something must have happened when the kid died.
Because the spirit just forgot who he was , and had only Cole memories /identity left.
It's stated that when demons/spirits cross over from the Fade they are confused/overwhelmed. I don't think it's that strange that he'd not have memories of what he is.
But yeah the stealing of original Cole's identity is definitely strange. I don't think that's really anything we can even guess much about as we know so very little about fade creatures. It's still pretty much a big question mark, especially since even in Thedas they know so little of the Fade.
There's no point in debating this , we can't know for sure unless a dev comes around.
Anyway my point was , about Cole, something must have happened when the kid died.
Because the spirit just forgot who he was , and had only Cole memories /identity left.
1. Of course there is no debating this. We have the codes and a Living spirit that tells us what is what.
2.We already know that spirits who come over from the fade can draw from the memories of the dead. We see thing with the anvil of the void quest, the elf ruins, and the thiag quest in awakening. The codex says that spirit who cross over often become confuse and in body themselves in the image of the person who died in the area lingering memories.
It's stated that when demons/spirits cross over from the Fade they are confused/overwhelmed. I don't think it's that strange that he'd not have memories of what he is.
But yeah the stealing of original Cole's identity is definitely strange. I don't think that's really anything we can even guess much about as we know so very little about fade creatures. It's still pretty much a big question mark, especially since even in Thedas they know so little of the Fade.
Demons and spirit do it all the time.
It's stated that when demons/spirits cross over from the Fade they are confused/overwhelmed. I don't think it's that strange that he'd not have memories of what he is.
But yeah the stealing of original Cole's identity is definitely strange. I don't think that's really anything we can even guess much about as we know so very little about fade creatures. It's still pretty much a big question mark, especially since even in Thedas they know so little of the Fade.
Well there's also the fact that Cole was back into the Fade at one point , and still didn't realize he belongs there.
Unlike Justice /Anders , he kept his human identity and didn't change back to a spirit /demon.
I wonder if we'll see his "true " form in DAI.
Spirit's in dragon age are not the same thing as souls.
I'm not sure what point either side is trying to make in this conversation, but in the context referring to the comic, it is equivalent. I have the Silent Grove right here in front of me and reread the situation. Yavana pointedly grabs Cladio's spirit from the Fade and returns it for interrogation. She even proceeds to threaten Cladio that she will "Pin [his] spirit to this rotting body for eternity"
Remember, Andrastians believe that their spirits (which is Synonymous with a "human soul" in this context) pass through the fade on the way to the Maker's side. This scene pretty much confirms that there's some sort of factual basis for that belief.
That said, I don't know if I'd equate a Fade Spirit and a Human Spirit to each other. Words can have different meanings based on the context. xD
Demons and spirit do it all the time.
I just saw you're previous post about that, right after I posted. Very interesting. I never actually read the codex's or quest descriptions, so I was not aware.
I'm not sure what point either side is trying to make in this conversation, but in the context referring to the comic, it is equivalent. I have the Silent Grove right here in front of me and reread the situation. Yavana pointedly grabs Cladio's spirit from the Fade and returns it for interrogation. She even proceeds to threaten Cladio that she will "Pin [his] spirit to this rotting body for eternity"
Remember, Andrastians believe that their spirits (which is Synonymous with a "human soul" in this context) pass through the fade on the way to the Maker's side. This scene pretty much confirms that there's some sort of factual basis for that belief.
That said, I don't know if I'd equate a Fade Spirit and a Human Spirit to each other. Words can have different meanings based on the context. xD
Andrastian and the people of thadus believe spirits and souls are two different things. In the black mash quest, no one said people spirit's were trapped in the fade, they said people souls were trapped in the fade. And with the amount of time we see spirits reanimate dead bodies( 2 with the persons ego intact) it point to the fact Yavana reanimated the guy by putting a fade spirit in his body.
Retour en haut