6175 réponses à ce sujet

[Fortlowe]

I'll say this. It is a monster to me, first and foremost, and an inhuman one. The gender it may or may not be referred to as makes no difference to me. I will only refer to it as it.

[Omikuji]

Hey.

 

Hey hey hey hey hey I just had a click in my brain about something completely different.

 

Could Cole heal a tranquil? 

 

In Asunder it's established that a demon/spirit only needs to poke at the Tranquil to fix them, from the Fade of course. But with the Fade leaking out all over the place, and the Inquisitor able to close/open the Fade portals (I'm only assuming that with the power to close comes the power to open as well unless it's been established that they can't somewhere that I don't remember) could he be used to help out Tranquils and that's one of the reasons he could join the party? 

[Ajna]

Slight correction. Cole thinks he has to kill to sustain himself. There's no proof that he actually would have faded away had he stopped killing. 

 

If he had turned out to be just a human blood mage at the end, and not an entity from the fade. I think people would be a lot less sympathetic towards him (well, i'm not too confidant about that, this is the bsn after all.   ) I mean, come on! A guy who thinks he has to slit people's throats in order to not disappear? Screams crazy, twisted psychopath.

A psychopath would not feel remorse though , Cole does.  I imagine it's maybe desperation and fear?  Because he doesn't know what else to do...or didn't before he met Rhys. *shrug* just a thought.

[leaguer of one]

I can read, of course. But there are mountains of evidence (literally) to prove Neanderthal man and dinosaurs did not coexist.

Doesn't stop some people from saying they did...Which is my point.

[leaguer of one]

No physical illness for one. Two, assisted suicide requires, or should at least, a sound mature mind to accept. These are desperate children in emotional turmoil.

They are still people with unrestricted free will.

[leaguer of one]

"Cole held her close, staring down into her eyes. He drank in every moment as the life ebbed out of her. It was an instant that seemed to stretch out into forever..and then she was gone."

 

It enjoys the killing.

Nope...That's eating for a spirit.

[Fortlowe]

How does encountering Rhys result in the notion of killing children so it doesn't disappear? Really am I missing something? If I am can someone explain it for me? Seriously, I am not being sarcastic. If the trigger event is that encounter then what about that encounter drove it to murder?

[leaguer of one]

Does killing sustain it or does it not? I do not think it does. As you say, it has miraculously found another way. I was mistaken (perhaps) earlier when I was under the impression that it was not killing children over the course of years. Just for a year or so.

 

But my error illuminates yet another point of contention. What was happening in the years leading up to meeting Rhys? If, at that time it was not killing (which I think it was), how did it sustain itself? If it was killing during that time then why hasn't it told Rhys about those murders? If it wasn't, and somehow did not 'fall through the cracks' then why did it start killing to begin with?

Spirit and demons feed off on the emotions and/or Life force of mortals. So yes it's feeding. If a demon can feed off negative feeling, could a spirit feed off positive feeling?

[leaguer of one]

I'll say this. It is a monster to me, first and foremost, and an inhuman one. The gender it may or may not be referred to as makes no difference to me. I will only refer to it as it.

Being a monster is based on intent. If a being has no intent on harming anyone it not a monster. If it consume others to live they are no different then animals.

 

Mornith from ME is a monster. Howe is a monster. Darkspawn who are unawaken are monsters. Cole is nothing like them.

[The Elder King]

He's referred to in promotional materials/the interview with Patrick Weekes as a "he". If he didn't anymore, chances are they'd refer to him as "it". Unless they're deliberately keeping that hidden away until the game release for some reason?

 
I'd certainly do that if I want to hide how he refers to himself. 

Slight correction. Cole thinks he has to kill to sustain himself. There's no proof that he actually would have faded away had he stopped killing. 
 
If he had turned out to be just a human blood mage at the end, and not an entity from the fade. I think people would be a lot less sympathetic towards him (well, i'm not too confidant about that, this is the bsn after all.   ) I mean, come on! A guy who thinks he has to slit people's throats in order to not disappear? Screams crazy, twisted psychopath.

That's assuming that I'm sympathetic towards Cole . I find him an interesting character, and I want to know more about him. I never said I condone what he did. Plus, I'm definitely wary of Fade entities and their interactions with mortals (expecially in the case of moronical, willing merging ), as I said multiple times in those forums. That doesn't mean I'd kill him or send him out.
And yes, Cole might think he had to kill to sustain himself (considering that he's a spirit/demon, he might have different methods to feed and sustain himself). It doesn't change the fact that since he though he had to, his dialogues with his victims are explained with this reason (at least for me) and not becuase he enjoys killing people.
I'm not defending this point becuase I want to defend him from being a psycophatic that enjoys murders, but because it is what I believe it happened.

[Ajna]

Spirit and demons feed off on the emotions and/or Life force of mortals. So yes it's feeding. If a demon can feed off negative feeling, could a spirit feed off positive feeling?

So do some people sadly, some knowingly, others not so...

[SnakeCode]

A psychopath would not feel remorse though , Cole does.  I imagine it's maybe desperation and fear?  Because he doesn't know what else to do...or didn't before he met Rhys. *shrug* just a thought.

Many mass murderers and killers feel remorse after though (or at least claim to.) It doesn't absolve them of the crime and it doesn't change the public's opinion of them.  

 

To genuinely feel remorse, one has to understand the reasons why what they did was wrong, Cole didn't. He didn't have any concept of morality until Rhys teaches him later on.

[The Elder King]

How does encountering Rhys result in the notion of killing children so it doesn't disappear? Really am I missing something? If I am can someone explain it for me? Seriously, I am not being sarcastic. If the trigger event is that encounter then what about that encounter drove it to murder?

I didn't say that encountering Rhys lead him to kill people. I said that when the meeting might've triggered something inside him.
As i said, we have no clue of what he was doing before. It's irrelevant if he truly needed to kill them (possibly he just feeds on pain and suffering, and he didn't know he can do it without killing), becuase he believed it was necessary for him to survive, so he thanked the victims because he thought their death helped him survive.

[SnakeCode]

 
I'd certainly do that if I want to hide how he refers to himself.  That's assuming that I'm sympathetic towards Cole . I find him an interesting character, and I want to know more about him. I never said I condone what he did. Plus, I'm definitely wary of Fade entities and their interactions with mortals (expecially in the case of moronical, willing merging ), as I said multiple times in those forums. That doesn't mean I'd kill him or send him out.
And yes, Cole might think he had to kill to sustain himself (considering that he's a spirit/demon, he might have different methods to feed and sustain himself). It doesn't change the fact that since he though he had to, his dialogues with his victims are explained with this reason (at least for me) and not becuase he enjoys killing people.
I'm not defending this point becuase I want to defend him from being a psycophatic that enjoys murders, but because it is what I believe it happened.

Oh I wasn't talking about you, just the bsn's reaction towards him in general. If he had just turned out to be a human serial killer I doubt the maternal instincts of so many would have kicked in the way they have.

[Ajna]

Many mass murderers and killers feel remorse after though (or at least claim to.) It doesn't absolve them of the crime and it doesn't change the public's opinion of them.  

 

To genuinely feel remorse, one has to understand the reasons why what they did was wrong, Cole didn't. He didn't have any concept of morality until Rhys teaches him later on.

It's just a claim, a psychopath just cannot feel remorse, they're not able to it's not in their make up.  So basically Cole didn't actually know what he was doing?  I need ro re-read Asunder...starting tomorrow...

 

This is a really complex issue which I think will be debated at least until October 7th...should keep everyone busy!

[The Elder King]

Oh I wasn't talking about you, just the bsn's reaction towards him in general. If he had just turned out to be a human serial killer I doubt the maternal instincts of so many would have kicked in the way they have.

Possibly, but the maternal insticts didn't kick in because he's a spirit (that was known long before his announcement), but from his quote and interview.

[SnakeCode]

It's just a claim, a psychopath just cannot feel remorse, they're not able to it's not in their make up.  So basically Cole didn't actually know what he was doing?  I need ro re-read Asunder...starting tomorrow...

 

This is a really complex issue which I think will be debated at least until October 7th...should keep everyone busy!

Indeed, it's a very interesting debate.

 

Cole knew what he was doing, he just couldn't know if it was right or wrong because not being human he had no concept of morality.

[Ajna]

Oh I wasn't talking about you, just the bsn's reaction towards him in general. If he had just turned out to be a human serial killer I doubt the maternal instincts of so many would have kicked in the way they have.

Come on Mr Code, if BW were to give us an obvious serial killer we'd all kill him first chance we got!

 

There is much grey here..apparently.

[Ajna]

Possibly, but the maternal insticts didn't kick in because he's a spirit (that was known long before his announcement), but from his quote and interview.

Indeed, the maternal instincts come from his desire to help people and gain nothing from it, not even ackonwledgement.  I had no sympathy before they revealed this part of his character.  It's interesting.

[SnakeCode]

Possibly, but the maternal insticts didn't kick in because he's a spirit (that was known long before his announcement), but from his quote and interview.

That's true, but there are still many who have read asunder and therefore knew about Cole's past. It still didn't stop them from wanting to "mother him." I know it's primarily because he seems so childlike and vulnerable, but i'm still surprised the serial killing aspect didn't put a lot of people off.

[SnakeCode]

Come on Mr Code, if BW were to give us an obvious serial killer we'd all kill him first chance we got!

 

There is much grey here..apparently.

Mr Code?... I like it! 

[The Elder King]

I think you mean selflessness, but yes. That's where the maternal instincts are coming from.

Exactly. Zevran was far less apologetic about his past. Anders won't regret what he did unless you maxed his rivalry and finished all his quests in the right way. Cole at least seems to be trying to be good now.

That's true, but there are still many who have read asunder and therefore knew about Cole's past. It still didn't stop them from wanting to "mother him." I know it's primarily because he seems so childlike and vulnerable, but i'm still surprised the serial killing aspect didn't put a lot of people off.

His vulnerabile and possibly Childlike mentality isn't the reason. It's his apparent selflessness in wanting to help others without anything in change, even recognition to exist, that lead to the maternal istincts.
And to be honest, we already had professional assassins or characters that committed terrible actions in our party.

[Reznore57]

Indeed, it's a very interesting debate.

 

Cole knew what he was doing, he just couldn't know if it was right or wrong because not being human he had no concept of morality.

Spoilers from Asunder.

 

Spoiler

 

I think the fact that he's a spirit isn't really the problem.He didn't know he was one.

The main thing is all he remembered was being a kid who's been badly abused.

He was so terrified of his dad , he killed his sister by accident just because he wanted to keep her safe.

Then he stabbed his dad.

 

When "normal" adults came to the rescue , they looked at him just like his father did.He was a mage = he was cursed.

He got thrown into jail , and the templars forgot about him.

At the end the kid was praying for death.I think he only wanted someone to at least open the door and mercy kill him.

 

So yeah , Cole spirit was a twisted angel of death.But I'm not sure you can blame him.

Besides the more time he spend having normal "relationship" with humans , the more he understands killing innocents is not a solution.

[Fortlowe]

I still don't buy the 'friendly ghost' bit. If this predator can make you forget anything it wants and make itself invisible, then what's to stop it from constructing the fantasy that it's 'helping'?

 

"Hi Cole! Did you and my neph...hmph. Did you have a good time at the fair...all by...yourself...?"

[Meeszy Alexy]

The more I hang about this thread the more I feel that Cole is supposed to be a very grey character, one that isn't supposed to fit into preconceived notions of good and evil, though he is at least trying to be good without selfish intent. So in other words, him being controversial might be more intentional than we might think.