6175 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

Can you give an example of the phenomenon you are describing. Only two examples come to my mind comparable to Cole: the Guardian of the urn and the Baroness. We don't know how the Guardian came to be but the Baroness is a verifiable case of reference.

 

How about the lore itself?  Examples from the games are minimal, but the lore backs up my point.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Veil

 

What is known for sure is the use of blood magic can allow the Veil to be torn so that demons may physically pass through it into the physical world. 

 

 

And it's even been said that a lot of blood, death, torture and use of magic at any given site would thin the Veil.   Plus, even Asunder had a blood mage in the Spire.  If there is one, there is more.  So that would make the Veil even weaker.

 

The lore states right there if the Veil is torn enough, demons (and going by logic, spirits as well) don't need a host.

 

As for the rest, Elder King pretty much said what I thought.

[Fortlowe]

The spirit explicitely said that he was with the boy when he died, when talking to Lambert. He had no reason to lie to Lambert since he was going to kill him. How did he stay with the boy until his death if he used him to cross the veil?
Plus, as far as I know spirits can't use humans as 'fuel' to cross the Veil (and no, the baroness thing is different. The Used a living creature tha was INSIDE the Fade. There is absolutely nothing in the games or lore that shown a creature of the Fade can do such things when the mortal is in Thedas) . A mage can do it (though it isn't necessary to kill a person), but spirits can. The only way for a spirit to cross the way directly in a normal situation (again, without a living creature inside the Fade to be used), is to possess someone.

The Baroness was 'with' the First when he got used up.  So far as a creature using someone asleep to grant it power enough to cross the Veil (though obviously not enough to cross in the form of its choosing like Cole, the Guardian, and the Baroness), I reference the Shade in the Brecilian Forest.

[Fortlowe]

How about the lore itself?  Examples from the games are minimal, but the lore backs up my point.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Veil

 

 

And it's even been said that a lot of blood, death, torture and use of magic at any given site would thin the Veil.   Plus, even Asunder had a blood mage in the Spire.  If there is one, there is more.  So that would make the Veil even weaker.

 

The lore states right there if the Veil is torn enough, demons (and going by logic, spirits as well) don't need a host.

 

As for the rest, Elder King pretty much said what I thought.

A tear is a different matter. Tears absolutely allow spirits to come through at will. But a tear proves my point, not yours. Where are the other spirits? Tears don't mend on their own so if Cole came through, it should have been with lots of company.

[The Elder King]

The Baroness was 'with' the First when he got used up.  So far as a creature using someone asleep to grant it power enough to cross the Veil (though obviously not enough to cross in the form of its choosing like Cole, the Guardian, and the Baroness), I reference the Shade in the Brecilian Forest.

What do you mean with 'with', exactly? They were in the Fade. The boy wasn't.
Where was it stated that the shades weren't already in Brecilian?

[Fortlowe]

What do you mean with 'with', exactly? They were in the Fade. The boy wasn't.
Where was it stated that the shades weren't already in Brecilian?

That's how the original camp got there. A mage and the party she or he was with made camp, the Shade encountered the party in the Fade, things worked out better for the Shade than the mages party, and it used them to get a foothold in the mortal realm. Rinse and repeat for centuries until the Warden and those meddling kids showed up to ruin everything.

 

So far as the Boy Cole, he had to sleep. When he slept he went to the Fade. Not in body, but in mind. That's why I referenced the shade. Dream presence very much is enough for a spirit to latch onto and use as a catalyst to propel themselves into the mortal realm.

[The Elder King]

That's how the original camp got there. A mage and the party she or he was with made camp, the Shade encountered the party in the Fade, things worked out better for the Shade than the mages party, and it used them to get a foothold in the mortal realm. Rinse and repeat for centuries until the Warden and those meddling kids showed up to ruin everything.
 
So far as the Boy Cole, he had to sleep. When he slept he went to the Fade. Not in body, but in mind. That's why I referenced the shade. Dream presence very much is enough for a spirit to latch onto and use as a catalyst to propel themselves into the mortal realm.

Understood. Though It seems a bit different. The shades overpowered them, and attacked them in a place where the Veil was so thin then demons/spirits reached it and possessed trees.
Again, in normal situations I haven't seen a spirit using a mortals to reach the mortal plane without possessing him/her. Plus, shades don't seem to be able to possess people, so they might work differently then spirits and demons. And Cole isn't a shade.

[Fortlowe]

 

 

 

 

http://hobbithase.deviantart.com/

 

 

First, I think the artist is very talented and I applaud the work it took to make it. Well done.

 

The subject matter is another thing, though. Is this the girl from the book? She is supposed to be able to decide that it's time to end it? Not in anyway criticizing the artist or even the intention behind the works creation. Here is a illustration of why the adoration of Cole is so vexing.

 

Cole comforting an innocent little girl in the worst hour of her life. This is the image that comes to mind when taking the position that Cole is compassionate. But we know what happens to the little girl. When the fact that Cole stabs her to death  to 'comfort' her is brought up, suddenly she isn't a little girl anymore, or she's a murderer, or she wanted to die, or all of those things becomes her situation, instead of that of a little girl locked in a dungeon, in pain, alone and, in the dark, with promises of even more torment coming.

[The Elder King]

First, I think the artist is very talented and I applaud the work it took to make it. Well done.

The subject matter is another thing, though. Is this the girl from the book? She is supposed to be able to decide that it's time to end it? Not in anyway criticizing the artist or even the intention behind the works creation. Here is a illustration of why the adoration of Cole is so vexing.

Cole comforting an innocent little girl in the worst hour of her life. This is the image that comes to mind when taking the position that Cole is compassionate. But we know what happens to the little girl. When the fact that Cole stabs her to death to 'comfort' her is brought up, suddenly she isn't a little girl anymore, or she's a murderer, or she wanted to die, or all of those things becomes her situation, instead of that of a little girl locked in a dungeon, in pain, alone and, in the dark, with promises of even more torment coming.

Not sure if this is the girl of the first chapter or Cole. Probably the former though.

[nightcobra]

First, I think the artist is very talented and I applaud the work it took to make it. Well done.

 

The subject matter is another thing, though. Is this the girl from the book? She is supposed to be able to decide that it's time to end it? Not in anyway criticizing the artist or even the intention behind the works creation. Here is a illustration of why the adoration of Cole is so vexing.

 

Cole comforting an innocent little girl in the worst hour of her life. This is the image that comes to mind when taking the position that Cole is compassionate. But we know what happens to the little girl. When the fact that Cole stabs her to death  to 'comfort' her is brought up, suddenly she isn't a little girl anymore, or she's a murderer, or she wanted to die, or all of those things becomes her situation, instead of that of a little girl locked in a dungeon, in pain, alone and, in the dark, with promises of even more torment coming.

 

That would be Cole's sister if i'm not mistaken

[ClassicBox]

First, I think the artist is very talented and I applaud the work it took to make it. Well done.
 
The subject matter is another thing, though. Is this the girl from the book? She is supposed to be able to decide that it's time to end it? Not in anyway criticizing the artist or even the intention behind the works creation. Here is a illustration of why the adoration of Cole is so vexing.
 
Cole comforting an innocent little girl in the worst hour of her life. This is the image that comes to mind when taking the position that Cole is compassionate. But we know what happens to the little girl. When the fact that Cole stabs her to death  to 'comfort' her is brought up, suddenly she isn't a little girl anymore, or she's a murderer, or she wanted to die, or all of those things becomes her situation, instead of that of a little girl locked in a dungeon, in pain, alone and, in the dark, with promises of even more torment coming.

Not disagreeing or agreeing, but artist's description:

"well... a quick drawing of my inquisitor Aurora as a child (right after her arrival at the Circle of Magi) and our new favourite spirit Cole. It's not my best work and it didn't turn out as I wanted it to but... I thought I'd still give it a try and upload it on da. I don't know, if Aurora and Cole could've possibly met because I didn't read the Dragon Age novels and don't know when the novel with Cole takes place... but I read, that he appears for people who are desperate and that he comforts them without judging them. (I also read something about him killing people only for being visible for them Shrug ) I thought it would be nice, if Aurora was comforted by Cole while being desperate of leaving her family and friends and her old life because of being a mage. She hid in a corner of one of the Circle's storage room so she could be alone... but then Cole found her.
I hope you guys still like it ^^"

 

http://hobbithase.de...pathy-464304005

[nightcobra]

Not disagreeing or agreeing, but artist's description:

"well... a quick drawing of my inquisitor Aurora as a child (right after her arrival at the Circle of Magi) and our new favourite spirit Cole. It's not my best work and it didn't turn out as I wanted it to but... I thought I'd still give it a try and upload it on da. I don't know, if Aurora and Cole could've possibly met because I didn't read the Dragon Age novels and don't know when the novel with Cole takes place... but I read, that he appears for people who are desperate and that he comforts them without judging them. (I also read something about him killing people only for being visible for them Shrug ) I thought it would be nice, if Aurora was comforted by Cole while being desperate of leaving her family and friends and her old life because of being a mage. She hid in a corner of one of the Circle's storage room so she could be alone... but then Cole found her.
I hope you guys still like it ^^"

 

http://hobbithase.de...pathy-464304005

 

I stand corrected then 

[Fortlowe]

Not disagreeing or agreeing, but artist's description:

"well... a quick drawing of my inquisitor Aurora as a child (right after her arrival at the Circle of Magi) and our new favourite spirit Cole. It's not my best work and it didn't turn out as I wanted it to but... I thought I'd still give it a try and upload it on da. I don't know, if Aurora and Cole could've possibly met because I didn't read the Dragon Age novels and don't know when the novel with Cole takes place... but I read, that he appears for people who are desperate and that he comforts them without judging them. (I also read something about him killing people only for being visible for them Shrug ) I thought it would be nice, if Aurora was comforted by Cole while being desperate of leaving her family and friends and her old life because of being a mage. She hid in a corner of one of the Circle's storage room so she could be alone... but then Cole found her.
I hope you guys still like it ^^"

 

http://hobbithase.de...pathy-464304005

Fair enough. Why doesn't Cole try, instead of ending their lives, attempting to help the Mages it killed get their lives back? Helping them escape? Cole can become invisible and make people forget and it knows it can. Infitration is something Cole is comfortable with. The effort of stealing into the cells that the mages are locked in is not vastly different than the effort helping them escape would be. Why is killing the solution that comes to mind? Unless killing is the point.

[Eveangaline]

Why doesn't someone the writer described as someone with the mind Of a child realize the complex problems in their actions and come up with a more complex solution? It is a mystery.

[Fortlowe]

Why doesn't someone the writer described as someone with the mind Of a child realize the complex problems in their actions and come up with a more complex solution? It is a mystery.

So Cole can weigh the want of its own well being, formulate and repeatedly execute a method of improving that well being, understand that killing is punishable by death, and decide to leave the Spire in a desperate enough circumstance, but not even consider that it can end the mages suffering without ending their lives?

[The Elder King]

So Cole can weigh the want of its own well being, formulate and repeatedly execute a method of improving that well being, understand that killing is punishable by death, and decide to leave the Spire in a desperate enough circumstance, but not even consider that it can end the mages suffering without ending their lives?

No, but on the escaping part you suggested, he shown to be very frightened and fearful unil he realized what he was.
And again, he believed he had to kill for survive.

[KirstyLionheart]

Fair enough. Why doesn't Cole try, instead of ending their lives, attempting to help the Mages it killed get their lives back? Helping them escape? Cole can become invisible and make people forget and it knows it can. Infitration is something Cole is comfortable with. The effort of stealing into the cells that the mages are locked in is not vastly different than the effort helping them escape would be. Why is killing the solution that comes to mind? Unless killing is the point.

 

Well the events of Asunder have already happened now lol.. there's no use in suggesting he did something differently. In the upcoming game however, this is close to what he is going to do. Except he's not specifically helping mages (as far as we know). But we do know he wants to help now.

He's seemingly learned from his mistakes. Much like a human would. And as PW said, he's trying. Is that not enough, sir?

[Kisari]

Understood. Though It seems a bit different. The shades overpowered them, and attacked them in a place where the Veil was so thin then demons/spirits reached it and possessed trees.
Again, in normal situations I haven't seen a spirit using a mortals to reach the mortal plane without possessing him/her. Plus, shades don't seem to be able to possess people, so they might work differently then spirits and demons. And Cole isn't a shade.

Codex entry on Shades

"We already know that many demons become confused when they pass through the Veil into our world. They are unable to tell the living from the dead, the very static nature of our universe being confusing to a creature that is accustomed to a physicality defined entirely by emotion and memory. Most demons seek to immediately seize upon anything they perceive as life, jealously attempting to possess it—but what of those that do not? What of those that encounter no life, or fail to possess a body? What of those that are more cautious by their nature?
In time, such a demon will learn to drain energy from the psyche of those it encounters, just as it did in the Fade. Once it has drained enough, it has the power to manifest and will forever after be known as a shade. Such a creature spurns possession. It instead floats as a shadow across its piece of land, preying upon the psyche of any who cross its path."

They cross over, then they start draining the psyche of mortals to manifest themselves as a physical form. Looks like shades choose not to possess people, not that they aren't able to.
Basically, it's not that shades are a special type of demon that cannot possess people. It is simply a classification for a demon that, whether through choice or circumstance, did not possess someone.

[Meeszy Alexy]

Wake up thread! Time for some random fanart!

 

 

by Zweirze1993 on DeviantArt

 

 

by Mezamero on Deviantart.

 

Sorry if these have already been posted, but I had to wake this thread up somehow.

[Faerah]

The thread has it's lulls when no new info is floating around...and when people aren't endlessly debating.  Those have been posted before but I don't mind. More fan art posts are always welcome. 

[Kisari]

The thread has it's lulls when no new info is floating around...and when people aren't endlessly debating.  Those have been posted before but I don't mind. More fan art posts are always welcome. 

Well once we got his official reveal I'm sure plenty of people that were waiting for it took their leave to avoid further spoilers. I think a lot of people are also simply sticking around until the romances are released. I expect the forums to slowly die down and once the game is released it'll explode again. I remember following the DA2 release, once the romances were announced and it was close to release the forums were mostly DA2 VS. TW threads day in and out and not as much fan talk. I'm planning on sticking around until romances are announced and then I'll just stick to the Twitter thread, and Cole is the only character I find intriguing enough to really chat in his fan thread. But I think most conversations and debates about him have already happened when Asunder came out.

Cole fans are also pretty divided as he's a very polarizing character. It seems to be either "he's my precious babbu and must be protected" or "kill with fire". I expect come release and once we know more about him it'll kick up again. ^^

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I was wondering, how do you guys think Cole will react to party members arguing with people he's friends with? Cole was extremely protective of his friends in Asunder. I wonder how he would react to someone like Vivienne picking on Solas, for example. In the past he mostly kept quiet due to social anxiety, but it seems like he's shook that off somewhat, so I wonder if he'll chime in on situations like this. 

[nanami92]

Cole fans are also pretty divided as he's a very polarizing character. It seems to be either "he's my precious babbu and must be protected" or "kill with fire". I expect come release and once we know more about him it'll kick up again. ^^

 

Well, for me, I rather not have the "aw you precious baby!" thing with Cole. I mean sure, the turnips thing and such sounds adorable, but ah... I prefer a bromance or a sibling thing with him. That is definitely the safest bet for me since romance in general with Cole even if it's asexual got people pretty divided so... yeah.

 

I'm pretty interested in helping Cole out with discovering himself but like a friend/sibling would, not a overbearing parent. So... I guess I'm in the middle of that spectrum?

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I was wondering, how do you guys think Cole will react to party members arguing with people he's friends with? Cole was extremely protective of his friends in Asunder. I wonder how he would react to someone like Vivienne picking on Solas, for example. In the past he mostly kept quiet due to social anxiety, but it seems like he's shook that off somewhat, so I wonder if he'll chime in on situations like this. 

That would be interesting. Like Vivienne is harassing Solas then Cole suddenly shouts "leave him alone!" or something like that. 

[Meeszy Alexy]

Got two more Kelgrid comics here!

 

One silly one with Sera:

 

 

and one depressing one, starring Blackwall:

 

[Omikuji]

It totally counts as a Cole fan art included.