6175 réponses à ce sujet

[Beliar86]

Finally read asunder instead of going off the wiki. Masked empire as well. Solas should have better hypotheses than anyone else, but Imshael should have all the answers regarding Cole. I'm pretty sure those 2 will want Imshael alive and Imshael himself Will be some kind of valuable asset to the Inquisition if left alive, at the cist of having very powerful sadistic spirit running around free. It will be a point of tension with Michel and other party members who would be against letting Imshael run free, and one of those harder choices with much debate. At least that is my take.

[Fredward]

That it thought it was dying is also very much up for debate.

 

Not... really? From his perspective he really did feel that way. We have no reason to believe he was lying IN HIS THOUGHTS.

[Eveangaline]

Not... really? From his perspective he really did feel that way. We have no reason to believe he was lying IN HIS THOUGHTS.

It's not normal to constantly lie in your own thoughts for fear of mind readers?

[Fortlowe]

Not... really? From his perspective he really did feel that way. We have no reason to believe he was lying IN HIS THOUGHTS.

So did it think it was dying before it started killing people? Also it does in fact lie in its thoughts. It thinks of itself as a boy named Cole that died (possibly by its hands). How did it arrive at that notion if not by self delusion?

[Milan92]

I apologize, but why do you refer this as He, nor as It? Does the spirits have a gender?

 

Because it sounds more normal that way if you ask me. Calling Cole "it" makes it sound like he is some disgusting thing.

 

We didn't call Justice "it" either, didn't we?

[Medhia_Nox]

@Milan92:  I definitely called Justice "it" - though informally I may have said "he" occasionally since it possessed a male.  

 

It's not that they are disgusting.  It is that they are completely, and irrevocably, incompatible with the reality of Thedas. 

 

The spirit possessing Wynne remains notoriously un-present throughout it's possession.  It is a hitchhiker - not a driver.  This presents a conundrum which I would have to consider were this more than just theorycraft for a fictional world - but ultimately, the danger remains that it too might one day change it's approach to interaction and decide to drive Wynne and not hitchhike. 

 

I have yet to see anything but spirit buffoonery as these beings enter Thedas and then cause no end of disaster due to their ignorance - which, actually isn't ignorance at all.  They're extra-dimensional beings in the wrong place.  They don't belong in Thedas any more than sapients belong in the Fade (you stay in the Fade too long, you can't get back.  Thedosians are NOT compatible with the Fade.) 

 

Imshael of course, is a perfect example as to WHY these things shouldn't be allowed to remain on Thedas.  

 

"Oh, that's my friend the spirit.  We haven't figured out if its decided to destroy the world or it likes it here... isn't it exciting!?"
 

[Milan92]

And Cole shows himself as a male. So why does he become an exception? Seems a bit hypocrite don't you think?

[Fortlowe]

And Cole shows himself as a male. So why does he become an exception? Seems a bit hypocrite don't you think?

Desire demons show themselves as female. They are not.

[Milan92]

Desire demons show themselves as female. They are not.

 

They are and look like demons. With the horns and all.

 

Cole looks like a normal human beign. If it weren't for the fact that we know that he is a spirit, then I would have assumed he was human.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

@Milan92: I definitely called Justice "it" - though informally I may have said "he" occasionally since it possessed a male.

It's not that they are disgusting. It is that they are completely, and irrevocably, incompatible with the reality of Thedas.

The spirit possessing Wynne remains notoriously un-present throughout it's possession. It is a hitchhiker - not a driver. This presents a conundrum which I would have to consider were this more than just theorycraft for a fictional world - but ultimately, the danger remains that it too might one day change it's approach to interaction and decide to drive Wynne and not hitchhike.

I have yet to see anything but spirit buffoonery as these beings enter Thedas and then cause no end of disaster due to their ignorance - which, actually isn't ignorance at all. They're extra-dimensional beings in the wrong place. They don't belong in Thedas any more than sapients belong in the Fade (you stay in the Fade too long, you can't get back. Thedosians are NOT compatible with the Fade.)

Imshael of course, is a perfect example as to WHY these things shouldn't be allowed to remain on Thedas.

"Oh, that's my friend the spirit. We haven't figured out if its decided to destroy the world or it likes it here... isn't it exciting!?"

I dont think you have to worry about Wynne getting possessed anymore....

[Fortlowe]

They are and look like demons. With the horns and all.
 
Cole looks like a normal human beign. If it weren't for the fact that we know that he is a spirit, then I would have assumed he was human.

That would be an incorrect assumption.

[Milan92]

That would be an incorrect assumption.

 

I have no response to that.

[Thinvesil]

Because it sounds more normal that way if you ask me. Calling Cole "it" makes it sound like he is some disgusting thing.

I don't think about Cole as the "disgusting thing". It's not a thing but a person. Actually I love it and accept it's nonhuman nature completely. So when we're calling Cole "hi" doesn't this sound like a self-deception about it's asexual nature?

[Uirebhiril]

I don't think about Cole as the "disgusting thing". It's not a thing but a person. Actually I love it and except it's nonhuman nature completely. So when we're calling Cole "hi" doesn't this sound like a self-deception about it's asexual nature?

 

Way I figure it, if the Cole spirit identifies as being male based on the human boy that was Cole, I'm going to respect that. It feels wrong not to, especially when you have transgendered friends in the real world. It comes a bit too close to "just accept what you are/deal with what you aren't" to make that decision for the character.

[Faerah]

Asexuality is not the same thing as being gender neutral. Asexuality just means someone doesn't care for the act of sex. They can still identify with (and in Cole's case, appear to be) a specific gender. Cole is identified as male and he isn't internally conflicted about it, this is why most of us call him "he".

 

Also, trying to argue with Fortlowe is futile. He's headcanoned Cole being a manipulative super villain-esque demon and no one can/will change his mind. It's to the point where Fortlowe thinks Gaider meta'd Cole tricking the reader of the book during the parts depicted through Cole's point of view. 

[Fortlowe]

Asexuality is not the same thing as being gender neutral. Asexuality just means someone doesn't care for the act of sex. They can still identify with (and in Cole's case, appear to be) a specific gender. Cole is identified as male and he isn't internally conflicted about it, this is why most of us call him "he".
 
Also, trying to argue with Fortlowe is futile. He's headcanoned Cole being a manipulative super villain-esque demon and no one can/will change his mind. It's to the point where Fortlowe thinks Gaider meta'd Cole tricking the reader of the book during the parts depicted through Cole's point of view. 

Or that you've head cannoned Casper the friendly ghost. Please do not marginalize my contribution simply because you do not agree with it.

[Uirebhiril]

 

Also, trying to argue with Fortlowe is futile. He's headcanoned Cole being a manipulative super villain-esque demon and no one can/will change his mind. It's to the point where Fortlowe thinks Gaider meta'd Cole tricking the reader of the book during the parts depicted through Cole's point of view. 

 

And honestly, if that's the story being told I'm cool with it. So what if it is true? You have a big fight or have to reload the game and make a different choice? Nope, never did that before playing a video game...

 

Seriously, it's a game. Reading too much into it and making grand declarations and decisions before playing it seems a bit premature. How many people refuse to ever do anything with a companion when they have the option to go back and play as a different character with alternate beliefs and goals? I didn't much care for the dark ritual idea in DA:O and my "canon" run did the ultimate sacrifice, but I still did the ritual with another game just to see the story from that point of view. Why limit yourself to just one story when the game gives you the option to see so many others?

[KirstyLionheart]

So.. there I was, just watching TV today. Then this advert came on. *cough* James Norton *cough*

 

I'll add the video in a spoiler for those not interested

 

Spoiler

*

 

.. ..

[Faerah]

Or that you've head cannoned Casper the friendly ghost. Please do not marginalize my contribution simply because you do not agree with it.

I don't agree with you because your theory is not supported by evidence. It's just something you feel is happening in the book with no real proof. I'm not trying to marginalize your theory either. Your opinion has been voiced here many times and no one has stopped you. We even had civil discourse about it a few times. Technically your theory could be true, but it ignores a lot of established things so it's fairly unlikely in my opinion. I'm just warning other new posters that this will turn into a long, drawn out conversation that won't go anywhere since it's already been done before. Many times at this point. I hope this thread gets filled with either new conversations or new posters' musings, as opposed to regurgitating the same arguments over and over (by the same people). In the end, we won't know if he's the ultimate conniving manipulator or "Casper the friendly ghost" until the game launches. Or more likely: neither of those things.

 

At least we can sort of celebrate together...kind of. He's in the game for sure and you can refuse him to join if you want. That's, at least, for certain.

[Fortlowe]

I've only referenced the source material. My 'theory' as you call it, is based on what it does, not what it thinks or what it says. The source material indicates that what it thinks and what it says are not reliable points of reference. It spends the majority of the book thinking it is a dead child, afterall, when there is absolutely no reason for it to come to this conclusion.

[Milan92]

It wasn't my intention to draw out another discussion. I only replied to a poster because they asked why some people refer to Cole as "he"

[XMissWooX]

Well 'he' and 'she' are gender pronouns - they don't actually refer to a person's sex, but rather their gender. So, people and things which have masculine qualities are referred to as 'he' and 'him', and people and things with feminine qualities are referred to as 'she' and 'her'. Case in point - cars and boats are often affectionately called 'she' (e.g. "isn't she a beauty?", "I'll have to take her for a ride.")

So because Cole looks like a male (and really, that's enough for me), but also thinks and feels that he is male, living with memories of life as a male and has never asked anyone to not call him male, I'll go with 'he'.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Milan92:  Cole looks like a dead human.  I would refer to a zombie as an "It" as well.

 

@Ninjasplaycardgames:  That's true, but I was more referring to any future exceptions.

[revan11exile]

Hi new here so do you guys think cole will have powers like Corvo from Dishonored and do you guys remember that chat we all had with Wynne were the Warden ask if a person can turn human again if they are an abomination maybe that is what cole is trying to do

[Master Warder Z_]

We didn't call Justice "it" either, didn't we?

 

I did!