6175 réponses à ce sujet

[Eveangaline]

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes
I don't think I made @bbattye cry with my explanation for why Cole disapproved of her decision, but it wasn't for lack of trying.

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes
Also, semi-relatedly, doing approval/disapproval for followers can get A TEENSY BIT DARK.

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes
"Cole is fine executing (guy) but hates sending him to prison? He LOVES mercy!" "What was Cole's experience of prison in Asunder?" "Oh. OH."

 

Damn, I didn't consider that. "Why aren't you just giving them a painless quick death now instead of sending him to be locked up and slowly starve to death?"

[HuldraDancer]

Just heard Cole for the first time today and I must say, it is going to be so hard for me not to see him as a little brother type now. He sounds just like my baby brother damn you big sisterly easy to feel feels.

[Master Warder Z_]

Damn, I didn't consider that. "Why aren't you just giving them a painless quick death now instead of sending him to be locked up and slowly starve to death?"

 

If i recall correctly from Asunder, Cole was a coward and called to the demon to save him.

 

._. That was the end of the little human mage locked underneath the spire.

[Kisari]

Well, I guess I could have phrased my concerns more tactfully, considering the fact that I was addressing a thread full of Cole fans...    No harm, no foul.  I think I'll take a look at the synopsis though, just so that I'm more up to speed.

Oh no, I totally don't mind people voicing concern/dislike for Cole. There's some people that frequent this thread that do not like him at all and this thread has A LOT of debates compared to the other fan threads. I personally don't mind it, it's to be expected of someone that is a spirit/demon and has committed crimes. He's always going to be a character that divides(like Anders).

I'm glad you are still considering him though! I think it's important for people not to completely write off characters we haven't fully met yet. I'd be pretty naive to believe everyone has the same morals and ideals as me, so if you end up not being able to forgive him for what he did, that's perfectly okay. ^^b

[SgtSteel91]

I wonder if we can tell Cole the Inquisition will take better care of their prisoners than the Templars? He might still disapprove but it would be a smaller hit.

[Master Warder Z_]

I wonder if we can tell Cole the Inquisition will take better care of their prisoners than the Templars? He might still disapprove but it would be a smaller hit.

 

Or he might around screaming like a loon about needing to feel "real"

 

and stabbing random people.

 

Insane abomination and all.

[Kisari]

If i recall correctly from Asunder, Cole was a coward and called to the demon to save him.

 

._. That was the end of the little human mage locked underneath the spire.

Nope, Cole was praying to the Maker and for death. How could a demon save him? He died, he didn't become an abomination.

pg 6 of Asunder
"There in the cold and nothingness, he'd pray for death. Anything would be better than waiting for the templars to return, anticipating whatever new torment they had planned for him."

"Fervently he prayed to the Maker, over and over again, for deliverance. He prayed until his voice was hoarse, prayed for the templars to forget he even existed. And then he'd gotten his wish. That's exactly what they did."

[Master Warder Z_]

Nope, Cole was praying to the Maker and for death. How could a demon save him? He died, he didn't become an abomination.

pg 6 of Asunder
"There in the cold and nothingness, he'd pray for death. Anything would be better than waiting for the templars to return, anticipating whatever new torment they had planned for him."

"Fervently he prayed to the Maker, over and over again, for deliverance. He prayed until his voice was hoarse, prayed for the templars to forget he even existed. And then he'd gotten his wish. That's exactly what they did."

 

Which is contradicted by what he tells to Lambert at the end of the book, The Demon was called and it "comforted" him.

 

After he was left forgotten and alone, it came and people were like awww! And i was like O_o'' He got possessed and this is a good thing? But anywho back to the point, and the contradictory recollections.

 

It isn't surprise to me his memories are garbage, possession does that.

[Kisari]

Which is contradicted by what he tells to Lambert at the end of the book, The Demon was called and it "comforted" him.

 

After he was left forgotten and alone, it came and people were like awww! And i was like O_o'' He got possessed and this is a good thing? But anywho back to the point, and the contradictory recollections.

 

It isn't surprised his memories are garbage, possession does that.

All it says is that demon!Cole heard his cries and went to him, not that Human!Cole specifically called for a demon.

There is no indication that he is possessing the original Human!Cole's body actually. That's merely an assumption. We don't actually know what Cole is. We know the Human!Cole died, and evidence of his existence was destroyed. It's possible that includes the body, which would mean it wouldn't be possible for the demon!Cole to possess a body that has been dead/destroyed and yet still function as a living human. He needs to eat, sleep, he sweats and bleeds. Highly doubt a dead body is capable of those things.

He could be some sort of spirit/demon that possessed Human!Cole's body after he died, he could be a Shade(physical manifestation of a demon, basically their true form outside the Fade), he could be something entirely unique and something we've never heard of before.

[Master Warder Z_]

There is no indication that he is possessing the original Human!Cole's body actually. 

 

Fair enough, but we also know demons can kick start a body again from Wynne.

 

 

He needs to eat, sleep, he sweats and bleeds. Highly doubt a dead body is capable of those things.

 

It could have merely been an illusion from his constant blood magic you realize?

 

 

He could be some sort of spirit/demon that possessed Human!Cole's body after he died

 

Aka an abomination.

 

 

he could be a Shade(physical manifestation of a demon, basically their true form outside the Fade), he could be something entirely unique and something we've never heard of before.

 

Possible, but i am willing to stick with what we know of their kind and make my guesses from that.

 

We possibly have an undead capable of blood magic, a shade or an abomination.

 

My three theories.

[Kisari]

Fair enough, but we also know demons can kick start a body again from Wynne.

If it is still the original Cole's body, and the demon!Cole inhabited it, he'd still have the psyche and personality of the original Cole. He'd be no different. Both Anders and Wynne still exhibit their base personality, with Anders slowly warping throughout the game, and Justice shining through multiple times. When Conner was possessed, he was still himself when the demon was not in control. I'd be more inclined to believe it's the original Cole if he ever recollected any memories aside the one traumatizing one we witness in the Fade. The only one he seems to have is the murder, and then rotting in the cell. Of course, lack of information does not mean it doesn't happen but I find it strange personally.

 

It could have merely been an illusion from his constant blood magic you realize?

Patrick Weekes confirmed in the Cole interview on the DA:I website that he was not using blood magic. He was using demon/spirit magic/powers.

 

Possible, but i am willing to stick with what we know of their kind and make my guesses from that.

We know very little though, and the people of Thedas know barely anything either.

 

We possibly have an undead capable of blood magic, a shade or an abomination.

 

My three theories.

Yes, my main point was that there is evidence against him just being a straight up abomination. I'm not going to try and convince you he's not an evil monster or anything.

[Master Warder Z_]

Patrick Weekes confirmed in the Cole interview on the DA:I website that he was not using blood magic. He was using demon/spirit magic/powers.

 

Did Mr. Weekes also explain why he decided to break lore here?

 

Lambert used the Litany of Adralla, and it EFFECTED him, the Litany is ONLY good for, and note, ONLY good for, mental domination brought upon by blood magic.

 

Note, i read your entire post, and i thought about responding to it, but ultimately decided this was the only real point of interest.

 

Because as i said, it seems like lore break to me.

[Kisari]

Did Mr. Weekes also explain why he decided to break lore here?

 

Lambert used the Litany of Adralla, and it EFFECTED him, the Litany is ONLY good for, and note, ONLY good for, mental domination brought upon by blood magic.

 

Note, i read your entire post, and i thought about responding to it, but ultimately decided this was the only real point of interest.

 

Because as i said, it seems like lore break to me.

Has a dev or someone said that it only works for blood magic and that the in-game codex is wrong? The codex entry for it specifies that it works on all forms of mind control.

"A deeply pious mage, she was renowned in her day for having found a counter to every form of mind control, a defense against dream walkers, and even counter-spells to demonic summons." ... "The Litany of Adralla disrupts the casting of mind control spells. Use the Litany whenever a creature tries to dominate another with magic, and it will interrupt the casting."

I'm also not a writer for DA so I'm not really going to comment on whether it's a lore break as I did not create the lore. Probably something to ask PW or Gaider yourself.

[efd731]

i might be able to clear some of this up, original cole was a hedge mage who died while fervently wishing the templars would never find him"and he got his wish", and its allready been stated that his invisibility isn't actually invisibility, its a mental manipulation that makes those who see him either not notice him at all or forget him entirely. so the litany of adralla would dispel it, because its mental manipulation, but not blood magic, so there's that. 

[Lukas Trevelyan]

do you want the basics, or the story in it's full spoilers glory, cuz I'm willing to explain most of it.

Whenever you have the time. I'd love for ya to do that for me.

But again whenever it's convenient for you and you really don't have to do it ^.^

[Faerah]

Whenever you have the time. I'd love for ya to do that for me.

But again whenever it's convenient for you and you really don't have to do it ^.^

Go to the first post of this thread and look for the spoiler tag. There's a synopsis of Cole from Asunder there. 

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Go to the first post of this thread and look for the spoiler tag. There's a synopsis of Cole from Asunder there. 

Oh the spoiler tag! 

Sorry I'm new to the thread   

[revan11exile]

So do you guys think Cole is like Corvo from Dishonored if so he is coming with me everywhere 

[Master Warder Z_]

Has a dev or someone said that it only works for blood magic and that the in-game codex is wrong? The codex entry for it specifies that it works on all forms of mind control.

"A deeply pious mage, she was renowned in her day for having found a counter to every form of mind control, a defense against dream walkers, and even counter-spells to demonic summons." ... "The Litany of Adralla disrupts the casting of mind control spells. Use the Litany whenever a creature tries to dominate another with magic, and it will interrupt the casting."

I'm also not a writer for DA so I'm not really going to comment on whether it's a lore break as I did not create the lore. Probably something to ask PW or Gaider yourself.

 

Well to be fair, there is a hint of contradictory in the Lore here, namely that the blood is the key to manipulation of the mind.

 

And there being no other force of mental "compulsion" none beyond blood magic so...If its the only KNOWN variant, i guess it wouldn't be lore break, if it was something akin to that, but to me it just reeks of them trying to get rid of the demon angle.

 

Because for format after format, only blood magic could do what he supposedly and now its magic spirit powers...whatever.

 

Just annoying to me, Well i guess we will wait for the final product to come out and see what they did with Cole.

 

Would have been better to just stick their guns in my eye though, abomination followers tend to either by despised or loved by the fanbase, i can't see why this one would have been any different.

[Faerah]

Blood magic was taught to mortals by demons, supposedly. The original form of blood magic is spirit/demon/fade/whatever you want to call it magic. Mortals have to perform "sacrifices" to power spells to get the same end result as fade entities, basically.

 

Edit: looking at the wiki it says the first supposed case of blood magic was taught by Dumat. Modern Thedosians have to learn it through other blood mages or demons though. Also, Imshael from Masked Empire uses very similar magic as Cole and he is a "spirit of choice". He claims it is a Fade "trick" if I remember correctly.

[Kisari]

Well to be fair, there is a hint of contradictory in the Lore here, namely that the blood is the key to manipulation of the mind.

 

And there being no other force of mental "compulsion" none beyond blood magic so...If its the only KNOWN variant, i guess it wouldn't be lore break, if it was something akin to that, but to me it just reeks of them trying to get rid of the demon angle.

 

Because for format after format, only blood magic could do what he supposedly and now its magic spirit powers...whatever.

 

Just annoying to me, Well i guess we will wait for the final product to come out and see what they did with Cole.

 

Would have been better to just stick their guns in my eye though, abomination followers tend to either by despised or loved by the fanbase, i can't see why this one would have been any different.

How would it get rid of the demon angle? It gets rid of the blood mage angle, because apparently demons can and do manipulate minds without the use of blood magic. Imshael is a "spirit(demon) of choice" in the Masked Empire and he uses the exact same powers that Cole unconsciously exhibits and calls it a "common fade trick". I don't really think they are downplaying the demon part, and I'm pretty certain Cole will be upfront about what he is.

Quote from the interview:
"...Once Seeker Lambert whips out the Litany of Adralla, that pretty much narrows Cole down to blood mage or demon, and since he wasn't using blood magic…

[DA]: So, Cole is definitely a demon?

[PW]: Welllllllll… he's definitely somewhere on the Demon-or-Spirit Spectrum of Fade Creatures (which I really hope exists somewhere). A lot of people will always see him as a demon. He would rather be a spirit. He's trying."

Saying "would rather be a spirit" implies(to me) that he is definitely a demon.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

I see Cole as a demon who's trying to break free from his evil nature, which is definitely plausible (Justice for example, turning from good to insane) and it all started when he heard the cries. As for Cole's ability it could simply be powered from the fade, if it were blood magic, then without using blood he'd have no ability to mind control/manipulate. 

I'm honestly a bit confused, it's what I get for arriving really late and not reading the book I guess xD

[Master Warder Z_]

Edit: looking at the wiki it says the first supposed case of blood magic was taught by Dumat. 

 

That's one theory.

 

WOT and the the lore don't any indicator of which is true.

[Exaltation]

Please someone cosplay Cole!

[Thinvesil]

Please someone cosplay Cole!

Maker! NOOOOO!

This should be creepy.