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[Kisari]

These are the exact points I tried to make. He can be a spirit of hope because they are known to be strongest entity of the fade so its possible he did all this. But this is just at theory based on how powerful Cole is. We simply don't know enough to make any decision.

We're really going to just have to wait for Cole to tell us since he knows what he is now at least. They left it fairly open and honestly we don't know enough about how the Fade and spirits work to 100% say what he is.

I'd honestly be pretty surprised if he was possessing the original Cole and if that's the case then I hope they explain a lot of the stuff that doesn't make any sense in Asunder. And he'd definitely have to have brought the body back to life, otherwise it wouldn't make any sense as to why he hasn't rotted away and why he needs to sleep and eat and stuff.

I'm not so sure he's for sure a spirit/demon though, since in the interview they made sure to specify that he was on the spectrum, not that he was one or the other. We haven't really seen spirits that weren't on one extreme or the other though, have we?

[Master Warder Z_]

Demon possessing a corpse that it revived, same as the spirit that possessed the ogre and brought it back to life in Awakening or the return to ostagar necromancer that revived an Ogre as well.

 

I will be honestly surprised if he isn't in the original cole's body, and if it isn't a little demon clinging to the delusion of personhood.

 

Lambert's word seemed to ring true to me.

 

"Stupid little spirit did you really think you were alive?"

 

It's about as "alive" as "Sophia" after devouring all of the Warden Commander's memories.

[Hellion Rex]

Demon possessing a corpse that it revived, same as the spirit that possessed the ogre and brought it back to life in Awakening or the return to ostagar necromancer that revived an Ogre as well.

 

I will be honestly surprised if he isn't in the original cole's body, and if it isn't a little demon clinging to the delusion of personhood.

 

Lambert's word seemed to ring true to me.

 

"Stupid little spirit did you really think you were alive?"

 

It's about as "alive" as "Sophia" after devouring all of the Warden Commander's memories.

I agree, I don't think he's alive at all. He's just a spirit, nothing more.

[Lulupab]

Who said he is "alive". He is just too complicated and branding him evil aka a demon is oversimplification.

[Hellion Rex]

I think he's straddling the line between good and evil at this point.

[Master Warder Z_]

Who said he is "alive". 

 

It did, it killed to make sure it didn't "fade" away.

 

Its a classical narcissistic delusion, by taking life somehow existence has meaning.

[Defne]

The body must be alive. Without soul? Sophia was not dead.

[Lulupab]

So he's a vampire now? O_O

All the events such as why he killed people who wanted to die aka mercy killing make him much more complicated. He could be a spirit without a host and they tend to fade away actually, so he somehow stayed and he doesn't need to kill anymore?

[Master Warder Z_]

All the events such as why he killed people who wanted to die aka mercy killing make him much more complicated. He could be a spirit without a host and they tend to fade away actually, so he somehow stayed and he doesn't need to kill anymore?

 

Killing people because it was deluded enough to believe that it needed to kill to remain in existence is a mercy killing?

 

Sounds more like insane delusion to me, And furthermore why wouldn't it keep up it's delusion? I wouldn't be surprised if it went around murdering random people to "not fade away".

[Lulupab]

Killing people because it was deluded enough to believe that it needed to kill to remain in existence is a mercy killing?
 
Sounds more like insane delusion to me, And furthermore why wouldn't it keep up it's delusion? I wouldn't be surprised if it went around murdering random people to "not fade away".

I draw that conclusion from the fact that he is a companion now and I doubt they would send him to kill random people. Whoever he killed or whatever he did he doesn't need to kill anymore or this would totally ruin his character and I seriously doubt it will happen.

And the killings were like a two way road? They wanted to die and he needed to kill.

[Defne]

Example Kristoff and Justice, a corpse is not good and for Cole illogical.

[Hellion Rex]

It did, it killed to make sure it didn't "fade" away.

Its a classical narcissistic delusion, by taking life somehow existence has meaning.

I took it as him using blood magic through killing so that he wouldn't return to the Fade/probably fade into a wisp.

[Kisari]

I took it as him using blood magic through killing so that he wouldn't return to the Fade/probably fade into a wisp.

Confirmed in the interview Cole was not using blood magic.

"...Once Seeker Lambert whips out the Litany of Adralla, that pretty much narrows Cole down to blood mage or demon, and since he wasn't using blood magic…

[DA]: So, Cole is definitely a demon?

[PW]: Welllllllll… he's definitely somewhere on the Demon-or-Spirit Spectrum of Fade Creatures (which I really hope exists somewhere). A lot of people will always see him as a demon. He would rather be a spirit. He's trying."

[Hellion Rex]

Confirmed in the interview Cole was not using blood magic.

"...Once Seeker Lambert whips out the Litany of Adralla, that pretty much narrows Cole down to blood mage or demon, and since he wasn't using blood magic…
[DA]: So, Cole is definitely a demon?
[PW]: Welllllllll… he's definitely somewhere on the Demon-or-Spirit Spectrum of Fade Creatures (which I really hope exists somewhere). A lot of people will always see him as a demon. He would rather be a spirit. He's trying."

Well, that's probably another lore inconsistency as the Litany of Adralla counteracts blood magic mind control and reciting it was the only way to break Cole's invisibility spell which sounded damn close to blood magic, and also made his nose "bleed".

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, that's probably another lore inconsistency as the Litany of Adralla counteracts blood magic mind control and reciting it was the only way to break Cole's invisibility spell which sounded damn close to blood magic, and also made his nose "bleed".

 

Already barked at that tree friend, and Weekes isn't answering my Emails so...i don't know what to say.

[Kisari]

Well, that's probably another lore inconsistency as the Litany of Adralla counteracts blood magic mind control and reciting it was the only way to break Cole's invisibility spell which sounded damn close to blood magic, and also made his nose "bleed".

I don't see anywhere that it states the Litany of Adralla *only* works with blood magic. The codex at least specifies it is for use against mental domination/mind control.

"The Litany of Adralla disrupts the casting of mind control spells. Use the Litany whenever a creature tries to dominate another with magic, and it will interrupt the casting. Once the spell is in effect and a character is under a blood mage's power, it is too late."

Demons have been shown to have mind control and mental domination abilities that do not use blood magic, it's a natural ability of theirs.
Imshael uses the same powers Cole has in The Masked Empire and says it's a common Fade trick.

[Master Warder Z_]

Demons have been shown to have mind control and mental domination abilities that do not use blood magic

 

Where did you get that notion?

 

One theory of Blood magic is that it originally STEMS from demons.

 

The has a few citations behind it, but the point of it is, How would you be able to tell when a demon was employing blood magic or not? And when they are using this supposedly "non" blood magic mental domination.

[Lulupab]

Where did you get that notion?
 
One theory of Blood magic is that it originally STEMS from demons.
 
The has a few citations behind it, but the point of it is, How would you be able to tell when a demon was employing blood magic or not? And when they are using this supposedly "non" blood magic mental domination.

Demons don't even have blood, its simply magic for them. Pride demons have the exact abilities Templar do, disrupt and dispel magic and they do it without Lyrium too. Its simply magic, its source is the fade and creature of the fade are magical beings.

[Kisari]

Where did you get that notion?

 

One theory of Blood magic is that it originally STEMS from demons.

 

The has a few citations behind it, but the point of it is, How would you be able to tell when a demon was employing blood magic or not? And when they are using this supposedly "non" blood magic mental domination.

Just because they can teach it doesn't mean they use it. Has there ever been a demon that states it uses blood magic? I'm honestly curious because I've never played any DLC for DA games so if anything happened in those I have no idea. And indeed it's just a theory, we don't know.

I can agree they've been inconsistent but PW did write Cole for DA:I and I highly doubt he would write something that went against what Gaider wrote when they share what they write with each other and stuff like that.

and I don't really know, I'm just guessing cause I think it'd be strange if spirits used the same magic as humans did when they are completely separate entities.

[Hellion Rex]

Just because they can teach it doesn't mean they use it. Has there ever been a demon that states it uses blood magic?

The Baroness (a pride demon) uses it to sunder the Fade and return the party and herself to the Blackmarsh.

[Master Warder Z_]

Just because they can teach it doesn't mean they use it. Has there ever been a demon that states it uses blood magic? I'm honestly curious because I've never played any DLC for DA games so if anything happened in those I have no idea. And indeed it's just a theory, we don't know.

I can agree they've been inconsistent but PW did write Cole for DA:I and I highly doubt he would write something that went against what Gaider wrote when they share what they write with each other and stuff like that.

and I don't really know, I'm just guessing cause I think it'd be strange if spirits used the same magic as humans did when they are completely separate entities.

 

Just one to my knowledge, the one possessing Sophia uses blood magic potentially to strengthen the veil at Soldier's Peak, But factor in that in that very same DLC, that Demons know every bit of lore on blood magic, and that the taint was alien to them, its a confusing picture i admit.

 

But when you tie it into the rantings of that nutter mage in DA 2 and it makes a bit more sense, hence the theory that in the ancient days blood magic was taught to man by demons.

 

Mmm, Its inconsistent, but they don't pay me to write storyboards for them so there are likely pieces of the puzzle i am obviously missing.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Baroness (a pride demon) uses it to sunder the Fade and return the party and herself to the Blackmarsh.

 

Forgot about that one!

[Kisari]

The Baroness (a pride demon) uses it to sunder the Fade and return the party and herself to the Blackmarsh.

i still don't understand her. she was a blood mage that eventually turned into a pride demon or something? So humans can become demons/spirits then?

[Hellion Rex]

Just one to my knowledge, the one possessing Sophia uses blood magic potentially to strengthen the veil at Soldier's Peak, But factor in that in that very same DLC, that Demons know every bit of lore on blood magic, and that the taint was alien to them, its a confusing picture i admit.

Avernus even says: "Blood magic comes from demons; they could counter every bit of lore I possess. But the darkspawn taint, that is alien to them. And it has power."

[Hellion Rex]

i still don't understand her. she was a blood mage that eventually turned into a pride demon or something? So humans can become demons/spirits then?

It's confusing, but it's probably that she was possessed by an extremely powerful pride demon either before or after she cursed Blackmarsh into the Fade.

 

So, no, humans do not become demons.