6175 réponses à ce sujet

[Lalwen]

You're welcome

I hope I didn't say anything stupid, but surely someone will correct me if I did

 

I'm really looking forward to meeting him :3

[Dust]

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes 

Also I got Solas to yell at me today, so one down. Next up, Cole. #AssQuisitor

 

Liz Lehtonen ‏@Liz_Lehtonen 

I apologized to my screen today because of Cole #unintentional #AssQuisitor

 

AssQuisitor,

you are gonna get stabbed in the ass XD

[thecookiesuspectsnothing]

Just finished reading Asunder, and well....Cole is now one of my most anticipated characters. So just dropping into this thread to say hello. I usually frequent the Solas thread.

[Exaltation]

I wonder if Vivienne will suggest to bathe Cole,like Wynne and Dog.

[Dracon525]

A little fanart I found on tumblr. Enjoy (source written on the pic)

 

He looks a lot better without those bug eyes...

[Fredward]

He looks a lot better without those bug eyes...

 

I almost feel like the devs added his creepy ass eyes just to make it very, VERY clear that no romantical type feelings should ever be felt for Cole.

[Exaltation]

I still love him so they failed.

[Willowhugger]

Poor abused troubled young men who need comforting?

Oh please, they're at fault if they didn't see this coming.

:-)

 

But yes, my Mage Quisitor will be all about, "Welcome! Join our merry band of weirdos!"

Which will probably go over like a ton of bricks with Cassandra, Vivienne, and Cullen.

[TheLittleBird]

Just finished reading Asunder, and well....Cole is now one of my most anticipated characters. So just dropping into this thread to say hello. I usually frequent the Solas thread.

 

Glad you liked him in that  

 

You know, I do wonder how having read Asunder will benefit those that have versus the ones who just stick to the games for their fill of Thedas. I mean, when comparing it to Stolen Throne and The Calling.... those books weren't necessary for Origins, but I do think they had a pretty big effect on how people would like Loghain. I, as someone who hasn't read those books, felt Loghain seemed a little too typical of a villain in Origins. The game didn't go enough into his character and the motivations behind his actions, I felt. At least when I first played it. Now I feel different, but that is because I know a lot more about him. It feels a little like both books are essential for a DA player to truly appreciate Loghain. I wonder how Cole's history in Asunder and his part in Inquisition will compare to that. 

[Defne]

If the DA story remains, then Cole is possessed (at least soul, if not body and soul). Spirits have only solid body (not alive).

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm all for discussing a character's nuances but if some of ya'll are just gonna consistently dismiss all the viewpoints that clash with yours as Cole-as-malevolent-demon, even to the point of dismissing him as badly written so as to better fit your concept [you know you're treading water when you're saying that the creator is wrong about their own creation], there really isn't much to discuss is there?

 

One Gaider created cole not Weekes.

 

two its quite obvious the characters have been revamped for the individual places in the universe.

 

Three you can make the argument that Weekes's version of cole is different considering its lacking a narcissistic delusion that forces it to kill to remain in existence.

 

Just putting that out there.

 

 

I'm all for discussing a character's nuances but if some of ya'll are just gonna consistently dismiss all the viewpoints that clash with yours as Cole-as-malevolent-demon, 

 

Likewise to others who view things the opposite, having a differing belief doesn't make your anymore valid.

[Fredward]

One Gaider created cole not Weekes.

 

two its quite obvious the characters have been revamped for the individual places in the universe.

 

Three you can make the argument that Weekes's version of cole is different considering its lacking a narcissistic delusion that forces it to kill to remain in existence.

 

Just putting that out there.

 

Likewise to others who view things the opposite, having a differing belief doesn't make your anymore valid.

 

Gaider has said something along the lines of Weekes' version of Cole being pretty close to the original actually [it's in his tumblr], furthermore he's the head writer and I'd think he'd point out OOC behaviour when it concerns one he created especially. I dunno at all about your second point but... okay? As for your third point Cole stopped having "narcissistic delusions" when he realized his true nature, he was deluded certainly, but once his eyes were opened that stopped. That's not character inconsistency that's character development. And we don't know  whether or not he still has to kill people in order to remain in existence. There's a case for it no longer being necessary since he now gets what he is but at the same time his feelings of fading, being forgotten and hopelessness are all key elements to the psychological amalgam that is Cole the boy and Cole the demon/spirit. In fact rereading Weekes interview on him that seems to be the case, he's still orientated towards the desperate and hopeless but now he helps instead of kills them. And why not? If he kills them he won't be able to feed of the emotions and he won't be able to do so if he helps them either. This brand of helping is probably just more consistent with the identity he's trying to build for himself.

 

And lastly it ain't about binaries. The problem with ya'll is that you have a set, rigid concept of what Cole is and you refuse to even consider a more balanced view. I'm sure there are people who think Cole is unambiguously good and shiny and rainbows and stuff but if so they seem a lot less vocal about it. All I'm asking is for some open-mindedness when approaching the character. Yes he killed people. Yes that is bad. Yes it's a demon/spirit that's manifesting as dead child. That's all kinda creepy I grant you but it's not JUST that anymore. It has assimilated that child's memories, it has been changed by it. It thought, in its warped, deluded psyche, that it was helping the people it was killing and even if that was just a lie it told itself it did GENUINELY believe it would fade out of existence if it didn't. Self-preservation is not a sin, certainly not one many of our human companions can say they've never been guilty of.

 

As soon as it realized what it is and that murder might not be necessary every indication shows its trying to change but you and yours just keep dismissing that out of hand primarily it seems because of prejudice. It's like you refuse to entertain the idea of any ambiguity when it comes to Fade entities. And that's fine I guess? Personally I don't get that level of close-mindedness, you have to at least be willing to CONSIDER exceptions otherwise confirmation bias rules. Which is exactly what I'm seeing here from you and a handful of others.

[TheLittleBird]

Fredward makes some excellent points, and I'd just like to point out what David Gaider said on his blog about Weekes taking over the character for him:

 

It’s not my Cole, precisely, but I don’t really mind that since Cole ended the novel at a crossroads where he could easily change… and Patrick didn’t take him that far from my Cole anyhow (certainly far less of a distance than between my Anders and Jennifer’s Anders). You’ll see.

 

Giving up Cole to another writer was not easy. I’m certain that, from an outsider’s perspective, it might seem like we writers just draw names at random when it comes to who works on what. Occasionally it feels that way, too… mostly because some characters get tossed from writer to writer, depending on schedules and who has time to work on something. Patrick came on the project from the Mass Effect team to pick up characters and plots which the rest of the DA writers had yet to get to (an anxiety-inducing pile of work which seemed to be growing on a daily basis). When he expressed interest in Cole, I had a heart attack that lasted approximately three days, until I realized it was either let him go or remove him from the game—as my schedule is the worst of the lot and my workload never gets lighter.

 

Eventually I even stopped backseat writing, peering over Patrick’s shoulder with nervously clutched hands, asking how my baby was doing. Patrick, trooper that he is, did not once tell me to go **** myself.

He also said Patrick did "a great job". 

[Master Warder Z_]

Gaider has said something along the lines of Weekes' version of Cole being pretty close to the original actually

 

Gaider can say what he wishes i suppose.

 

 

that's not character inconsistency that's character development. 

Considering when it happens? We don't know yet, So you cannot accurately label it one or the other given that it occurs near the end of the novel in question.

 

If the demon still kills to rob people of the energy to remain in the waking world, it will be no surprise to me.

 

And lastly it ain't about binaries. The problem with ya'll is that you have a set, rigid concept of what Cole is and you refuse to even consider a more balanced view.

 

It's a demon, nothing more; Weekes can go up and down the walls about how this isn't another "Justice" but i don't buy it, Because again and again and again we have seen these things are aliens, they are unknowable in their intent, and ultimately their intent is very positive to begin anyway.

 

Ultimately it's just that simple, Dealing with spirits has been ruined in DA just because in how alien their design turns out to be most of the time.

 

 

you and yours 

 

You mean people who don't dismiss a demon for what it is? 

 

Goodie goodie, we have a "nice" demon, it doesn't erase its crimes, it doesn't make it not a monster, it doesn't change the fact that its option for me to take him.

 

Beyond that, that term is both annoying and insulting, as if it is some failing to have a disagreeing view, i get that this is a fanboy thread, but it wasn't meant to be such so i will occasionally post here.

 

 

Self-preservation is not a sin

 

Is it not?

 

It just ultimately revealed what it is in those moments, dismiss as you will but to me a demon will do what it can to maintain it self in the world, its already proven its dangerous, its already proven its a threat, it has killed, it will probably do it again, and yet people criticize a person for a view of plainly stating it as something that would best not exist in the world at all?

 

 

It's like you refuse to entertain the idea of any ambiguity when it comes to Fade entities.

 

Because it doesn't exist.

 

I mean sure Weekes might attempt to cram some in with cole, and more power to him if he actually pulls it off.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that out of all the spirits that have been witnessed thus far, they all lived up to the "preconception" so ultimately is it even a prejudice with the preconception is always right?

 

Ultimately you dismissing a view simply because you view as a "bias" is limiting.

[Master Warder Z_]

Fredward makes some excellent points

 

Debatable, extremely so.

[Tevinter Rose]

I've never posted here before but I just wanted to say that I'm looking forward to getting to know more about Cole and he seems like a very interesting character. 

[TheLittleBird]

It's a demon, nothing more; Weekes can go up and down the walls about how this isn't another "Justice" but i don't buy it, Because again and again and again we have seen these things are aliens, they are unknowable in their intent, and ultimately their intent is very positive to begin anyway.

 

Ultimately it's just that simple, Dealing with spirits has been ruined in DA just because in how alien their design turns out to be most of the time.

 

That's the thing about Cole: I've always felt that his appearance in the DA universe is supposed to give something new, something fresh regarding the Fade. You can dismiss him as a Fade-creature stereotype all you want, but who says he won't be? The writers have that creative freedom, to give us something new. Just simply disregarding Cole as "a demon, nothing more" will very negatively affect the way one is going to look at him in the game.

 

But the developers do seem to acknowledge this view, as Patrick Weekes has said we will have the option not to recruit him. 

 

 

Ultimately you dismissing a view simply because you view as a "bias" is limiting.

 

He's not dismissing the view. He's simply stating that some people sharing that view here seem to be narrow-minded when it comes to other opinions on the character.

[Eveangaline]

I've never posted here before but I just wanted to say that I'm looking forward to getting to know more about Cole and he seems like a very interesting character. 

 

Agreed. I'm stuck wondering what his personal quest might be.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's the thing about Cole: I've always felt that his appearance in the DA universe is supposed to give something new, something fresh regarding the Fade

 

I really don't think its required personally.

 

He's not dismissing the view. He's simply stating that some people sharing that view here seem to be narrow-minded when it comes to other opinions on the character.

 

We will agree to disagree on that one.

 

Citing something as "narrow minded" simply because the perspective differs from your own is bias.

[TheLittleBird]

I really don't think its required personally.

 

So, what are you saying? You now dislike the fact that Cole is something different and new? You dismiss it, because it doesn't correspond with your views of the character?

[Master Warder Z_]

So, what are you saying? You now dislike the fact that Cole is something different and new? 

 

No, Because until proven otherwise it is exactly what it is.

 

Demons are convenient like that.

 

 

You dismiss it, because it doesn't correspond with your views of the character?

 

Of course not; I am no writer of lore.

 

I acquiesce to the universe provided.

 

Doesn't mean i won't form my own views on it though.

[TheLittleBird]

Of course not; I am no writer of lore.

 

I acquiesce to the universe provided.

 

Doesn't mean i won't form my own views on it though.

 

But it just sounded like you weren't ready to accept something different into the lore (in this case, Cole), and put it in a box.

[Master Warder Z_]

But it just sounded like you weren't ready to accept something different into the lore (in this case, Cole), and put it in a box.

 

How would that work?

 

As i said i am no dev.

[TheLittleBird]

How would that work?

 

As i said i am no dev.

 

I don't see what being a dev has to do with it. It's about accepting something as possibly being different or dismissing it as something old you've already seen but in a new coat. You don't need to be a dev to be able to do either.

[sandalisthemaker]

I almost feel like the devs added his creepy ass eyes just to make it very, VERY clear that no romantical type feelings should ever be felt for Cole.

 

Yep, along with the undead pallor and clammy complexion.