6175 réponses à ce sujet

[BraveVesperia]

Eh...I can't really blame the Templars for that.

He was a murderer.

 

I can see the Templars not bothering with a murderer and actually bothering with someone stable.

I mean an apostate child who killed his family...yeah don't open that can of worms.

Leave it to starve to death in a cell.

You know humane execution.

If the templars saw the situation at Cole's house (i.e. a kid surrounded by dead people) and just went 'lolnope not dealing with this' and stuck him in a cell to avoid dealing with it... I'd say I can definitely blame them for that. It's completely irresponsible for people who are supposed to protect mages and protect people from them to just ignore something like that. And inhumane to leave someone (especially a child) to die simply because it's easier for them not to bother finding out what happened.

 

Also, if manslaughter and self-defence (sister and father respectively) count as murder, then letting someone die of neglect certainly is too. Which would be rather hypcritical. I wonder how many cells the templars would need to shut themselves in.

[Gothfather]

I just finished Asunder and I don't find Cole a sympathetic character.

 

Spoiler

First because the little boy named Cole that was abused, isn't the character in Asunder. The demon/spirit clearly says "There was a Cole... i went to him and held his hand in the darkness until it was over." This tells me that the little boy isn't the same being as "Cole."

 

2nd Cole is a murderer, full stop. He killed 6 people, took advantaged of them when they were most vulnerable and ended their lives.

 

I actually wish I never read the book now because I will be judging cole based on the book vs judging him based on the inquisitor's knowledge.

[Fredward]

I just finished Asunder and I don't find Cole a sympathetic character.

 

Spoiler

First because the little boy named Cole that was abused, isn't the character in Asunder. The demon/spirit clearly says "There was a Cole... i went to him and held his hand in the darkness until it was over." This tells me that the little boy isn't the same being as "Cole."

 

2nd Cole is a murderer, full stop. He killed 6 people, took advantaged of them when they were most vulnerable and ended their lives.

 

I actually wish I never read the book now because I will be judging cole based on the book vs judging him based on the inquisitor's knowledge.

 

It ain't Cole but it does have all of Cole's memories and feelings and emotions. I like to think we aren't human PURELY because of our bodies. I'd go into rant-mode again but I've done that already like 6 times. I'll summarize by saying: it's complicated and you shouldn't get too prejudiced before getting the game. At least keep a semi-open mind when it comes to Cole.

[ZRO]

Eh...I can't really blame the Templars for that.

He was a murderer.

 

That...literally doesn't have anything to do with what we were saying about his appearance, but ok.

[Master Warder Z_]

Just to remind you about some basic legal provisions.

Just to remind you then.

Don't use modern ones.

These are the days when divine right to rule was still popular

[Dust]

Just to remind you then.

Don't use modern ones.

These are the days when divine right to rule was still popular

Laws (any forms of) are based on moral codes, they represent intrinsic humanity. On that point, not fictional anymore. This is the base line you should be aware of, kindly advised.

[Master Warder Z_]

Laws (any forms of) are based on moral codes, they represent intrinsic humanity. On that point, not fictional anymore. This is the base line you should be aware of, kindly advised.

I'm not arguing that point, I'm pointing out citing modern western legal codes doesn't mean much in Thedas.

Because it would be alien to them.

[Dust]

I'm not arguing that point, I'm pointing out citing modern western legal codes doesn't mean much in Thedas.

Because it would be alien to them.

Do I have to cite those moral codes to let you understand what I meant and what was your problem? Even if ur just indulging in this unprincipled templar role-playing, it’s still a sincere advise I feel needed.

 

Just enjoy yourself and be careful.

[Hinjo]

I love when someone says "it's ok to do (insert crime) because their laws are different". The interesting part is, it always happens when I regain a bit of faith in humanity. Well...

 

Ah, whatever. I have a question. Does anyone know if Cole's hat is restricted equipment? Or can my Inquisitor wear it as well? You know, I'm one of the weird person who would wear it in real life

[WazzuMan]

Cole murdered a bunch of people. True. If you took issue with that you must have hated Leliana, Zevran, Fenris and Isabela, to name a few, who have done a lot worse without the excuse of having the emotional and moral maturity of a child. And that's before you meet them. You spend a great deal of time in these games killing people for all kinds of messed up reasons like religious and racial intolerances.

[raging_monkey]

I love when someone says "it's ok to do (insert crime) because their laws are different". The interesting part is, it always happens when I regain a bit of faith in humanity. Well...
 
Ah, whatever. I have a question. Does anyone know if Cole's hat is restricted equipment? Or can my Inquisitor wear it as well? You know, I'm one of the weird person who would wear it in real life

id wear it to have one similar in my closet... somewhere

OT: no coles hat is his and its worn with a helmet. Its part of his charcaster model.

[Hinjo]

id wear it to have one similar in my closet... somewhere

OT: no coles hat is his and its worn with a helmet. Its part of his charcaster model.

Damn it! But thanks for answer.

[Master Warder Z_]

Do I have to cite those moral codes to let you understand what I meant and what was your problem?

My problem?

I have no problem save that some view mental instability or age as a defense when it's neither.

Not in Thedas, not in reality until fairly recently.

Trying by age and using insanity or mental disorder as defense are inventions of the 18th century west.

So your point on moral codes aside, I really don't see your issue.

[raging_monkey]

Damn it! But thanks for answer.

im sure we can find similar hats

[SgtSteel91]

You know, most of the Inquisitors except for the human mage (and that's a stretch) will probably not know what exactly happened at White Spire or know any of the characters from Asunder. Unless it's told to us early on we probably won't know that Cole is a Spirit or that he previously killed people when we first meet him.

 

As far as my Inquisitor goes, she'll just think Cole is a weird guy who's really good at shanking people and wants to help the Inquisition.

[Dust]

My problem?

I have no problem save that some view mental instability or age as a defense when it's neither.

Not in Thedas, not in reality until fairly recently.

Trying by age and using insanity or mental disorder as defense are inventions of the 18th century west.

So your point on moral codes aside, I really don't see your issue.

He was not intentional, he just wanted to protect her, his sister’s death was an accident, not a crime. And his father who was a real murder and monster was going to kill him, and self-defence was not a crime neither, I’m not talking about the grey area of mental disorder, I’m talking about the basic logic of crime conviction.

 

Not to mention the severe sins of imprisoning innocent children and starve them to death, I will take the phrase “can't blame” as a slip of the tongue, but if you truly believe so and insist like this, we are done talking.

[Gothfather]

It ain't Cole but it does have all of Cole's memories and feelings and emotions. I like to think we aren't human PURELY because of our bodies. I'd go into rant-mode again but I've done that already like 6 times. I'll summarize by saying: it's complicated and you shouldn't get too prejudiced before getting the game. At least keep a semi-open mind when it comes to Cole.

 

I don't understand your point,

Spoiler

the entity may have taken human coles memories but that doesn't in turn make him cole. The companion is a demon, its not human. The demon that took over pharamond absorbed his memories but he wasn't Pharamond. The last lines that I quoted earlier show that the guy calling himself cole knows damn well that he isn't cole and states clearly he would have killed more people had he been able to at the time of human coles death. And what does he do when he adapts to the realm of thedas? He kills.

 

I think companion cole is an interesting character but if David Gaider was trying to write a sympathetic character he utterly failed in my opinion. Given what he is and given what we are fighting in Inquisition I'd say Asunder ruined this character for me and many others. And that is a failure in writing,

[raging_monkey]

I don't understand your point,

Spoiler

the entity may have taken human coles memories but that doesn't in turn make him cole. The companion is a demon, its not human. The demon that took over pharamond absorbed his memories but he wasn't Pharamond. The last lines that I quoted earlier show that the guy calling himself cole knows damn well that he isn't cole and states clearly he would have killed more people had he been able to at the time of human coles death. And what does he do when he adapts to the realm of thedas? He kills.

 
I think companion cole is an interesting character but if David Gaider was trying to write a sympathetic character he utterly failed in my opinion. Given what he is and given what we are fighting in Inquisition I'd say Asunder ruined this character for me and many others. And that is a failure in writing,

it kinda like this sure he did heinious things but its not that simple. In asunder cole was a grey character who did things oddly. But by the time of inquisition we have a different cole. Sure he's on the demon/spirit spectrum but its not clear what he is. Its easy to cast blame but harder to understand why he did it. The thing about inquisition is faith,doubt, and change. Who knows were it will go.

Hope this helps

[Imported_beer]

I believe Cole is absolutely, indisputably compassionate. I, however, doubt his EQ, or his ability to judge social context.

 

To me, I could actually imagine Vivienne spying a stunning pair of gold plated stilettos and crying out "I'd KILL for shoes like that" and Cole attempting to protect everyone around her because he thinks she might mean it. 

 

Of course it can go terribly wrong, as we see in Asunder.

 

 

Spoiler

A person in emotional pain verbally wishes their life to end. One person thinks- ah, this person is in pain and suffering. I need to give them hope and strength to persevere through this. Cole thinks- Oh this poor person hates their life and wishes for death and so I must help this person. To my mind, both are being compassionate because their motivation comes from the desire to help the suffering person. The difference is one is more humane, and the other more clinical reacting to the evidence at hand

[veeia]

Wait, Warden_Z, are you arguing that what happened to the real child Cole was okay, or what the Templars think of spirit Cole is okay, or both? I'm confused. Spirit Cole can be classified as a murderer, sure. I'd argue it, but I get that. I don't get the other one?

[raging_monkey]

Wait, Warden_Z, are you arguing that what happened to the real child Cole was okay, or what the Templars think of spirit Cole is okay, or both? I'm confused. Spirit Cole can be classified as a murderer, sure. I'd argue it, but I get that. I don't get the other one?

dont do it you may not like the answer...

[veeia]

It's ok if I don't, haha. I have seen Warden_Z around enough to know I won't always agree with them, but I just like to be clear, I suppose. curiosity thing more than a "LETS FIGHT."

unless you think its best to just leave it be because it will incite more arguing? I'm not a regular here, although I'm growing more and more attached to the character, so if people who are here more think that, I will certainly respect it.

[raging_monkey]

It's ok if I don't, haha. I have seen Warden_Z around enough to know I won't always agree with them, but I just like to be clear, I suppose. curiosity thing more than a "LETS FIGHT."
unless you think its best to just leave it be because it will incite more arguing? I'm not a regular here, although I'm growing more and more attached to the character, so if people who are here more think that, I will certainly respect it.

more because id rather not continue the arguement due the sensitive subject, but thats just me and i just giving fair warning.

Normally we are very quiet but join us the the more the merrier

[Fredward]

I don't understand your point,

Spoiler

the entity may have taken human coles memories but that doesn't in turn make him cole. The companion is a demon, its not human. The demon that took over pharamond absorbed his memories but he wasn't Pharamond. The last lines that I quoted earlier show that the guy calling himself cole knows damn well that he isn't cole and states clearly he would have killed more people had he been able to at the time of human coles death. And what does he do when he adapts to the realm of thedas? He kills.

 

I think companion cole is an interesting character but if David Gaider was trying to write a sympathetic character he utterly failed in my opinion. Given what he is and given what we are fighting in Inquisition I'd say Asunder ruined this character for me and many others. And that is a failure in writing,

 

My point, that I kinda forgot to make, is that it's made clear that it's not JUST the demon any more. There was a merging that took place between whatever essence boy-Cole had and the demon. Those emotions influenced the demon (or spirit or whatever) so he's not just purely maleficent. If he was he wouldn't have developed a psychosis about fading that helped rationalize his murders. I feel sorry for boy-Cole or what's left of him but I feel SUPER MEGA intrigued by the current Cole/demon amalgam.

[Fortlowe]

My point, that I kinda forgot to make, is that it's made clear that it's not JUST the demon any more. There was a merging that took place between whatever essence boy-Cole had and the demon. Those emotions influenced the demon (or spirit or whatever) so he's not just purely maleficent. If he was he wouldn't have developed a psychosis about fading that helped rationalize his murders. I feel sorry for boy-Cole or what's left of him but I feel SUPER MEGA intrigued by the current Cole/demon amalgam.

So your point is we should sympathize with a creature that ate a child's soul?