6175 réponses à ce sujet

[SmilesJA]

Do we know that the creature inside Cole is a demon or a spirit?

[raging_monkey]

Do we know that the creature inside Cole is a demon or a spirit?

hes definatly on the spirit demon spectum thats all we know. He could a reverse abomination or a transended abomination, maybe a warped spirit of compassion

[Fredward]

So your point is we should sympathize with a creature that ate a child's soul?

 

Nope not my point at all. Like AT ALL. My point was that having a binary view ("oooooh Cole is SOOOOO cute and damaged I'mma take care of him!" and "He is a demon. Demons are evil. What? What is this nuance of which you speak?") of the Cole-thing before we can observe him further is just silly and biased, you'll wind up seeing what you want  to see rather than what is THERE.

[Lulupab]

Do we know that the creature inside Cole is a demon or a spirit?

 

 

The official dragon age site calls him a spirit.

 

Imshael calls himself a spirit, so...

[SmilesJA]

Nope not my point at all. Like AT ALL. My point was that having a binary view ("oooooh Cole is SOOOOO cute and damaged I'mma take care of him!" and "He is a demon. Demons are evil. What? What is this nuance of which you speak?") of the Cole-thing before we can observe him further is just silly and biased, you'll wind up seeing what you want  to see rather than what is THERE.

 

Yeah, I think we should withhold judgment on someone like Cole until the game comes out.

[Uirebhiril]

It is kind of funny that people get so up in arms over Cole having killed people. How many of them let Zevran live, I wonder. Or romanced Isabela, who admitted to throwing live people overboard. Classy lady.

 

I do wonder if we will find out Cole's nature. Probably? It will be interesting, that's for sure.

[Cryptos]

Maybe Cole is a new type of spirit/demon that hasn't been spotted before?

[BloodKaiden]

Do we know that the creature inside Cole is a demon or a spirit?

While intriguing to know ultimately it doesn't even matter imo. You wanna help stop the Breach? Welcome to the team.

[raging_monkey]

While intriguing to know ultimately it doesn't even matter imo. You wanna help stop the Breach? Welcome to the team.

ill take weapons coin people. It doesnt matter what they were... all that matters is thatcyour part of the inquisition.

[Chloe Thenab]

It is kind of funny that people get so up in arms over Cole having killed people. How many of them let Zevran live, I wonder. Or romanced Isabela, who admitted to throwing live people overboard. Classy lady.
 
I do wonder if we will find out Cole's nature. Probably? It will be interesting, that's for sure.

That's it! Zevran and Isabela are the best examples of amiable killers by far. After getting deeper into his background story, I might give Cole a try. Still that emo haircut...

[Blackstork]

I personally think that Cole is more positive character than Sten, Zevran, Fenris, Isabella.
It also valuable ally in Inquisition campaign since to fight demons and to ally and help spirits Inquisition need to have spirit-demon ally.
My first play will be Female Aequtarian Travelyan mage who will try to merge circle with chantry, giving much more rule and a lot of power to benevolent mages like Irving, Wynne, Rhys much more power and will render templars obsolete or put them under Chantry Aequtarian Inquisition rule.

[SmilesJA]

It is kind of funny that people get so up in arms over Cole having killed people. How many of them let Zevran live, I wonder. Or romanced Isabela, who admitted to throwing live people overboard. Classy lady.

 

I do wonder if we will find out Cole's nature. Probably? It will be interesting, that's for sure.

 

Don't forget Sten killing a family out of despair for losing his sword.

[SmilesJA]

That's it! Zevran and Isabela are the best examples of amiable killers by far. After getting deeper into his background story, I might give Cole a try. Still that emo haircut...

 

The voice though...... very alluring to say the least.

[Liedeke]

Interesting discussions going on here.

I admit I have a soft spot for Cole, but I don't know what he is like in the game yet. I'm patiently waiting till I can find out for myself.

 

Sharing some of my Cole fanart on here if you guys don't mind. I went for the creepy look, haha. Hope you guys like it. ^^

[Bigdoser]

It is kind of funny that people get so up in arms over Cole having killed people. How many of them let Zevran live, I wonder. Or romanced Isabela, who admitted to throwing live people overboard. Classy lady.

 

I do wonder if we will find out Cole's nature. Probably? It will be interesting, that's for sure.

Honestly I could not think of a good reason to take Zevran unless I metagame most of my play through's I slit his throat. 

[FrostDragon]

Recruiting Zevran is no worse than recruiting Sten if you choose to talk to him, almost better, in fact.

 

Cole is up to the very end of the book an enigma, and still is even after he finds out he's been using blood magic unwittingly. But he doesn't want to be a killer and he doesn't want to be evil, and that points towards him, by definition not being a demon. I think he has a lot of potential to develop as a character and it would definitely be interesting to learn more about him if he gets interesting and enlightening companion plot.

[Dust]

Do we know that the creature inside Cole is a demon or a spirit?

My stance is he’s either a spirit/demon possessed & restricted by a human soul or he is a complete unknown fade entity who has his own soul and creativity. I prefer the first one though, since I still believe the differences between spirit and human are crucial to the balance of this world.

 

You see, spirits have the power of creation, but they’re incapable of manipulating the physical world as they want. Humans however, have souls and creativity but except some mages can do minor adjustments to the physical world, they don’t possess the ultimate power of creation. For an entity have both soul and creative power to design the most complicated being in this world - a human, to me he is practically no difference than the maker, then why I'm so glad that he is still not losing his faith in this relentless world? cuz if he is, with the unlimited power he holds onto, he can totally destroy it.

 

On the other hand, if the human Cole was not completely gone, then this is just a new type of abomination (maybe it happens on the promises that the mage Cole was actually a hedge mage). In that case, I think we had no reason to discriminate between him and the original Cole since they are inextricably linked.

 

Some may argue that he is just a demon who is evil enough to physically manifested itself, but the theory neglect the fact that manifestation and creation are fundamentally different. The fade entity created many things that a normal fade being can’t even imagine of, the wide range of sensations, physical needs which are clearly no use for his evil intentions, not to mention the ageing process is related to his future, not some past memories, it certainly requires creativity to predict those details.

 

There are some theories conclude that the creativity is the essence of humanity, it defines us as an unique existence among the universe, it’s DEFINES US AS A HUMAN. Don’t say these real life philosophical debate are inapplicable, these are the writers propaedeutics, they use philosophy, psychology and sociology to create a dramatic world, and we often use them to decipher their implications.

[raging_monkey]

My stance is he’s either a spirit/demon be possessed & restricted by a human soul or he is a complete unknown fade entity who has his own soul and creativity. I prefer the first one though, since I still believe the differences between spirit and human are crucial to the balance of this world.
 
You see, spirits have the power of creation, but they’re incapable of manipulating the physical world as they want. Humans however, have souls and creativity but except some mages can do minor adjustments to the physical world, they don’t possess the ultimate power of creation. For an entity have both soul and creative power to design the most complicated being in this world - a human, to me he is practically no difference than the maker, then why I'm so glad that he is still not losing his faith in this relentless world? cuz if he is, with the unlimited power he holds onto, he can totally destroy it.
 
On the other hand, if the human Cole was not completely gone, then this is just a new type of abomination (maybe it happens on the promises that the mage Cole was actually a hedge mage). In that case, I think we had no reason to discriminate between him and the original Cole since they are inextricably linked.
 
Some may argue that he is just a demon who is evil enough to physically manifested itself, but the theory neglect the fact that manifestation and creation are fundamentally different. The fade entity created many things that a normal fade being can’t even imagine of, the wide range of sensations, physical needs which are clearly no use for his evil intentions, not to mention the ageing process is related to his future, not some past memories, it certainly requires creativity to predict those details.
 
There are some theories conclude that the creativity is the essence of humanity, it defines us as an unique existence among the universe, it’s DEFINES US AS A HUMAN. Don’t say these real life philosophical debate are inapplicable, these are the writers propaedeutics, they use philosophy, psychology and sociology to create a dramatic world, and we often use them to decipher their implications.

well said been saving this vid for the right post. Totally agree
http://m.youtube.com...h?v=9ld9cZ7d_2A

[Gothfather]

My point, that I kinda forgot to make, is that it's made clear that it's not JUST the demon any more. There was a merging that took place between whatever essence boy-Cole had and the demon. Those emotions influenced the demon (or spirit or whatever) so he's not just purely maleficent. If he was he wouldn't have developed a psychosis about fading that helped rationalize his murders. I feel sorry for boy-Cole or what's left of him but I feel SUPER MEGA intrigued by the current Cole/demon amalgam.

 

okay that was clearer, I understand were you are coming from.

[Gothfather]

It is kind of funny that people get so up in arms over Cole having killed people. How many of them let Zevran live, I wonder. Or romanced Isabela, who admitted to throwing live people overboard. Classy lady.

 

I do wonder if we will find out Cole's nature. Probably? It will be interesting, that's for sure.

 

I think there is a qualifiable difference.

Spoiler

Entity cole ate the soul of child cole. Enitity cole then went about killing 6 people, people talked about misplaced compassion but when I read asunder he was driven by fear of his own "death." The entity cole is a slightly sadistic being at the end of the book, the last scene of Asunder is not the sweet compasionate cole.

 

In other examples of Spirit possession in the DA series, the person is still whole, still is a functioning individual they just have a passanger aka Anders and Wynne. Cole is different the human side is almost entierly supressed, so much so that entity cole just doesn't get the world around him. Its not a case of a child like perception of the world its a case of lack almost any context of our world.

 

I don't think he's an uninteresting character but given what he is and what DA:I is all about I think Asunder was a TERRIBLE way to introduce cole. I think Asunder would have been a great book for winter 2015. I feel Asunder set the stage for me to be biased against cole. Simply because (I felt) he wasn't written very sympathetically.

 

I am not surprised that there is a lot of cole hate, everything we have seen in the game about how spirits possess vs Demons possess people seems to indicate this is more a demon style possession because the human bit is completely suppressed. That said there are things that are not typical of demon possession in that his appearance is something more akin to spirit possession. He's an invader to the world of Thedas that comsumed a human to stay here. That sorta puts you in the negative column for most people.

 

But again the above doesn't make him an unintresting character I just wish I was ignorant of the events in Asunder so I had ZERO biased towards Cole in DA:I.

[Gothfather]

My stance is he’s either a spirit/demon be possessed & restricted by a human soul or he is a complete unknown fade entity who has his own soul and creativity. I prefer the first one though, since I still believe the differences between spirit and human are crucial to the balance of this world.

 

You see, spirits have the power of creation, but they’re incapable of manipulating the physical world as they want. Humans however, have souls and creativity but except some mages can do minor adjustments to the physical world, they don’t possess the ultimate power of creation. For an entity have both soul and creative power to design the most complicated being in this world - a human, to me he is practically no difference than the maker, then why I'm so glad that he is still not losing his faith in this relentless world? cuz if he is, with the unlimited power he holds onto, he can totally destroy it.

 

On the other hand, if the human Cole was not completely gone, then this is just a new type of abomination (maybe it happens on the promises that the mage Cole was actually a hedge mage). In that case, I think we had no reason to discriminate between him and the original Cole since they are inextricably linked.

 

Some may argue that he is just a demon who is evil enough to physically manifested itself, but the theory neglect the fact that manifestation and creation are fundamentally different. The fade entity created many things that a normal fade being can’t even imagine of, the wide range of sensations, physical needs which are clearly no use for his evil intentions, not to mention the ageing process is related to his future, not some past memories, it certainly requires creativity to predict those details.

 

There are some theories conclude that the creativity is the essence of humanity, it defines us as an unique existence among the universe, it’s DEFINES US AS A HUMAN. Don’t say these real life philosophical debate are inapplicable, these are the writers propaedeutics, they use philosophy, psychology and sociology to create a dramatic world, and we often use them to decipher their implications.

 

Ahh sentients of Thedas are creators they create life, they create art, they create tools, they take the building blocks of the world and they create things. Entities of the fade only mimic they don't create they don't understand what they mimic because they can't create things. Its why you'll find a chair on the celing in the fade copy of a house.

 

I am pretty sure the codexes in DA:O also say this.

 

I just don't follow what exactly you are trying to say, it seems to be a contradiction to what the lore of the Da states.

[raging_monkey]

Ahh sentients of Thedas are creators they create life, they create art, they create tools, they take the building blocks of the world and they create things. Entities of the fade only mimic they don't create they don't understand what they mimic because they can't create things. Its why you'll find a chair on the celing in the fade copy of a house.
 
I am pretty sure the codexes in DA:O also say this.
 
I just don't follow what exactly you are trying to say, it seems to be a contradiction to what the lore of the Da states.

lore is written from a inverse perspective. Rhys even says they dont know much of spirits

[veeia]

lore is written from a inverse perspective. Rhys even says they dont know much of spirits

 

Yup, I think Cole is written to purposefully illustrate how limited the dominant Theodosian perspective on Fade entities is, and I imagine his scenes in DA:I-- especially his conversations with Solas-- are going to further mess with what we think we already know about the Fade and spirits/demons.  

[raging_monkey]

Yup, I think Cole is written to purposefully illustrate how limited the dominant Theodosian perspective on Fade entities is, and I imagine his scenes in DA:I-- especially his conversations with Solas-- are going to further mess with what we think we already know about the Fade and spirits/demons.

agreed. The real danger from cole isnt his skill set(dangerous as hell) is the lack of understanding

[Dust]

it seems to be a contradiction to what the lore of the Da states.

That's it! That you're quite right! Don't you see? The fact is his existence contradict to the whole chantry's statement. That's why the subject is so appealing!

 

Mimic is to mimic something was already happened or is happening right now. Like you said, spirt can't even mimic a chair, can they mimic a human who can even age? Do you have any idea what that means?