6175 réponses à ce sujet

[HuldraDancer]

http://www.deviantar...r-you-465642377

[Nette]

 I just want to hug him!

Source:http://withoutafuss....-Meme-507481225

[Nette]

Soo true!

[BraveVesperia]

@Nette, I adore that picture of Cassandra and Cole! It's so true to life. (Must return with likes...) 

Ugh, and did I ever feel like crap after picking either option to his post-Adamant demon-panic. Who wants to coldly tell such a kind and dear friend that you'll kill him? But that is what he needs to hear, or he just becomes more afraid and upset. Caring for him and understanding him means respecting that request, not "coddling" him as you said. It really shows his priorities in a rather heartbreaking manner. As does the "I don't matter" line during his quest. I admittedly snarled something impolite at the screen in reply to that.

Sorry for not replying sooner! Conversation options like that are such tricky ones. I ended up losing a fair bit of approval from him on my first playthrough because I wanted to express that I cared, but it didn't work out (you'd think I'd have taken note from his banter with Cass!). Then when he started talking about binding, I tried to express that we'd try to protect him no matter what, and he didn't like it. I think his "you'll kill me, won't you" question would have benefitted from more reply options. The "yes I'll kill you" reply sounds harsh (and colder with the English voice than the American one). Meanwhile the "I won't let anyone kill you" option makes it sound like the Inquisitor is too dismissive of his concerns. That said, I often feel like that with Cole. I want a boat-load of reply options so I can properly express myself!

 

I never heard that! Do you remember how to trigger it?

Unfortunately, I don't know how to trigger Solas' 'spirit of pomposity' comment, it often seems like it's the luck of the draw what companions say! It was with the Solas/Cass/Cole combo though.

It seems strange that Cole would have less priority to comment on something like Imshael when he's the person (besides Solas) who'd have the most insight.

 

He does say, "Dark and desperate, death to make yourself alive. I used to be like you." Chilling, really. Not having read Asunder, I don't know just how nasty Cole was during that time, but it looks like he does feel something in Envy that might grow into a chance for change. If Envy wanted to, which it doesn't. (Good. Sorry, Cole. I was eager to kick some demon ass at last.)

Oh, Cole. I wouldn't say he was like Envy in Asunder. Dark and desperate, sure, but he never had the malice that Envy shows. Plus he spent a great deal of time trying to protect Rhys. Come to think of it, it's a shame there isn't any kind of reunion, so Rhys (and Evangeline) can see how Cole has overcome that dark time. At least he does find closure on his own though.

 

 

It made me extremely happy for him, yes. All of the companions I use get along with him eventually, even Blackwall's suspicion and fear fade with time. Post-Revelations Blackwall and (spirit-)Cole have some really touching banters, which helped me forgive Blackwall, too. Cassandra was the most pleasant surprise, though. "Faith seeks a friend in compassion, cautious, careful, too much grey but growing." Since these two are my uncontested favourites, I'm delighted that they end up growing close to each other as well as to the Inquisitor.

 

I haven't used Blackwall much yet, so that should be a good experience! I tend to avoid taking Cole with people who clash with him too much. I hear he's great for helping people understand Vivienne though, so I'll have to try them at some point. I think Cole and Cassandra's friendship is one of my favourites in the whole series, and part of why I love her so much! 

[Nette]

@Nette, I adore that picture of Cassandra and Cole! It's so true to life. (Must return with likes...) 

Yes, they're beautiful. I just found them yesterday and thought I'd share my find with people that would appreciate them as much as I do.

[Korva]

@Nette: Wow, that's a gorgeous picture of my two absolute favourites. The colour schemes work really well for them.

 

Then when he started talking about binding, I tried to express that we'd try to protect him no matter what, and he didn't like it. I think his "you'll kill me, won't you" question would have benefitted from more reply options. The "yes I'll kill you" reply sounds harsh (and colder with the English voice than the American one). Meanwhile the "I won't let anyone kill you" option makes it sound like the Inquisitor is too dismissive of his concerns. That said, I often feel like that with Cole. I want a boat-load of reply options so I can properly express myself!

 

Yes, the Inquisitor's writing frequently leaves something to be desired, especially with Cole ... and the damn dialogue wheel paraphrases don't help at all because they're often very misleading. I'll never get used to or approve of that.

Oh, Cole. I wouldn't say he was like Envy in Asunder. Dark and desperate, sure, but he never had the malice that Envy shows. Plus he spent a great deal of time trying to protect Rhys. Come to think of it, it's a shame there isn't any kind of reunion, so Rhys (and Evangeline) can see how Cole has overcome that dark time. At least he does find closure on his own though.

It sounds like his situation was even stranger -- and harder to nail down in human terms -- back then than what it was now. Definitely despair, probably demon according to his own words, but never fully broken from his nature even when he was ignorant of it? Coming back from all that as he did really is amazing. And yes, I'd have liked to see that reunion, too.

 

Come to think of it, since I'm down one mage now, I probably wouldn't mind Rhys and Evangeline on my team ... though I know nothing about them except that they were Cole's friends and Rhys is dear old Wynne's son. The "Cole's friends" bit alone makes them all right in my book.

 

I haven't used Blackwall much yet, so that should be a good experience! I tend to avoid taking Cole with people who clash with him too much. I hear he's great for helping people understand Vivienne though, so I'll have to try them at some point. I think Cole and Cassandra's friendship is one of my favourites in the whole series, and part of why I love her so much! 

 

Blackwall definitely has some harsh lines for Cole, but also some unintentionally funny ones. And if you like Cole in full-on compassion-mode, you will likely love the five (I think) banters in total after finishing both their quests. Spirit-side, at least. Theirs is definitely an interesting relationship. I'd imagine that Cole would also try to soothe the anger that many others in the group have for Blackwall, afterwards, especially Cassandra since she takes it the hardest. Between Blackwall's self-hate and Cassandra's anger, that's no small task.

 

By the way, did Cole's speech pattern change from Asunder to Inquisition or was it the same back then, too -- meaning, his interesting tendency for alliteration and evocative if sometimes jumbled descriptions of sensory impression/memory/emotion?

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Cole...

He left me after saying:

"YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT PEOPLE!"

Yada yada!

That cheeky bastard! Never liked him much since he joined.

[BraveVesperia]

 

It sounds like his situation was even stranger -- and harder to nail down in human terms -- back then than what it was now. Definitely despair, probably demon according to his own words, but never fully broken from his nature even when he was ignorant of it? Coming back from all that as he did really is amazing. And yes, I'd have liked to see that reunion, too.

 

Come to think of it, since I'm down one mage now, I probably wouldn't mind Rhys and Evangeline on my team ... though I know nothing about them except that they were Cole's friends and Rhys is dear old Wynne's son. The "Cole's friends" bit alone makes them all right in my book. 

Especially since he pretty much has to to it through his own willpower! By the time he realises he's a spirit/demon, he leaves Rhys and Evangeline, and seems to be alone after that with no one to help him come terms with it all. If he was becoming a despair demon too, that makes the fear on his gravestone in the Fade even more tragic. I notice the difference with the codex for despair demons seems to be that they'd encourage people's misery so they could feed off it, while Cole would find people in despair and then kill them. Definitely a perversion of his nature, but not so far gone that he's trying to be cruel.

 

Oh my, if we were able to have Cole, Rhys and Evangeline in the party for one quest, I'd love it. If it was a DLC, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. 

 

Blackwall definitely has some harsh lines for Cole, but also some unintentionally funny ones. And if you like Cole in full-on compassion-mode, you will likely love the five (I think) banters in total after finishing both their quests. Spirit-side, at least. Theirs is definitely an interesting relationship. I'd imagine that Cole would also try to soothe the anger that many others in the group have for Blackwall, afterwards, especially Cassandra since she takes it the hardest. Between Blackwall's self-hate and Cassandra's anger, that's no small task.

Sounds perfect for my next playthrough, since I was planning to take the spirit path, and haven't used Blackwall that much. I imagine it would help me understand and appreciate him (Cole is so helpful for that too!). I noticed that post-quest if I ask Blackwall about 'our friends', he'll mention that he was too hard on Cole before. I'm glad to see that's reflected in banter!

 

By the way, did Cole's speech pattern change from Asunder to Inquisition or was it the same back then, too -- meaning, his interesting tendency for alliteration and evocative if sometimes jumbled descriptions of sensory impression/memory/emotion?

No, not really. He could be a bit cryptic, and occasionally he'd go into a poetic description of something (like how he feels). But he didn't have the alliteration, or the vivid descriptions of people's thoughts/feelings etc. I assume it's because he genuinely believed he was the original Cole at that time, so he couldn't really tap into his spirit senses/empathy, simillar to how he can't on the human path in DAI. Plus, everyone except Rhys forgot about him after speaking to him, or didn't notice him at all, so he only spoke to a couple of people.

Sadly, his post-Adamant panic reminds me of how he was in Asunder, since he tended to be quite unsure and nervous.

[DanteYoda]

Okay, well the events Cole describes in his back story are events from the novel Asunder which sets up the mage-templar war. The characters he mentions like Rhys and Evangeline and Seeker Lambert are characters in Asunder. In the novel, you don't really know what Cole is. He seems to be a ghost of some sort. Seeker Lambert uses the Litany of Adralla to expose him as a spirit/ demon. Rhys is horrified, so Cole runs away and as he tells you in DAI, he went to the templars so that if he ever started hurting people they would kill him.

 

So, he's got a longer development arc than most of the companions. But even if you didn't know that, you must not have had him in the party much if you don't think he adds anything. His dialogue is often cryptic but he does give insight into NPCs that you otherwise would only be able to get from diaries and the like. Plus he's funny. He's not a dashing pinup, but that's because he's a spirit emulating the body of a pimply, abused, starving teenager.

 

Do you have any reasons for disliking the character beyond the perception that he's "tacked on" or because of how he looks?

Yes his concept in the game was poorly added and as i said his whole "killing and enjoying it to help people" made me hate him immensely.

 

Everytime i help someone, fail to kill someone i get cole disapproval, that is poor mechanics..

[Addai]

Yes his concept in the game was poorly added and as i said his whole "killing and enjoying it to help people" made me hate him immensely.
 
Everytime i help someone, fail to kill someone i get cole disapproval, that is poor mechanics..

He doesn't like to see murderers get off scot free. It's not "poor mechanics" just because you don't like him giving you frowny faces. You can get plenty of approval with him by doing his personal quest and helping people.

[Delphine]

He doesn't like to see murderers get off scot free. It's not "poor mechanics" just because you don't like him giving you frowny faces. You can get plenty of approval with him by doing his personal quest and helping people.

 

And also by understanding why he does odd things in Skyhold. That's how he won me over, Cole is just the kindest.

[Korva]

Seriously. Cole is probably the easiest to gain approval with, at least if you play a remotely completionist or "heroic" game. To say he is about "killing and enjoying" it is pretty much a flat-out troll.

 

And the "odd things" are very touching, yes. I like how they show a side of his efforts that we don't really see in the party banters -- soothing the hurts he senses through actions as well as words. There's an undeniable logic to it if you take a moment to understand what he's doing, and he sounds happy and relieved when you do. Poor fellow ... the Inquisitor (along with Solas) is most likely the first person who ever recognized his help as such and appreciated it. He doesn't look for gratitude, but I'm certain it helps him find himself a bit more and gain some confidence after all he's been through.

 

Especially since he pretty much has to to it through his own willpower! By the time he realises he's a spirit/demon, he leaves Rhys and Evangeline, and seems to be alone after that with no one to help him come terms with it all.

 

Especially since he pretty much has to to it through his own willpower! By the time he realises he's a spirit/demon, he leaves Rhys and Evangeline, and seems to be alone after that with no one to help him come terms with it all.

Yes, he said he "learned to be more like what I am" when he was along, and while he's still uncertain, hurting and trying to make sense of it all by the time we meet him, he already has come a long way on his own. That is one reason why I really dislike him being treated as if he was a helpless child or a weak thing in need of cossetting. For some of the kindness and care he keeps giving others to be reflected back at him, yes. To be wrapped in gauze and treated like he can't care for himself, no. He has quite a bit of strength in him, but it's a quieter kind than the more commonly acknowledged extroverted/aggressive/take-charge sort.

 

If he was becoming a despair demon too, that makes the fear on his gravestone in the Fade even more tragic. I notice the difference with the codex for despair demons seems to be that they'd encourage people's misery so they could feed off it, while Cole would find people in despair and then kill them. Definitely a perversion of his nature, but not so far gone that he's trying to be cruel.

 

That's probably why the gravestone is there, yes. But in a way, that's a sign of hope, IMO -- he has already lived his worst nightmare and survived it. Scarred and changed, yes, but he made it through and keeps recovering more and more. Him not going full-on demon mode even back then is another good sign. Maybe he talks as if he was a demon because he's (rightfully) hard on himself for his past actions and because of the whole "mortal opinion can influence spirits" thing? Everyone around him thinks "Demon!", he feels it, sees all he did wrong, and sadly thinks "... yes" even though he doesn't want it to be true. It almost seemed to me as if he needed Solas' much more positive influence before he allowed himself to recognize himself as maybe, hopefully, a spirit.

 

There are moments when I want to force-feed Solas his own staff, sideways, but the unique gentleness he shows Cole is a huge reason why I end up liking him regardless.

 

I noticed that post-quest if I ask Blackwall about 'our friends', he'll mention that he was too hard on Cole before. I'm glad to see that's reflected in banter!

 

That was good, though it's still kind of lukewarm and I'd have liked a truly positive reply after all their banters have played out. I'd imagine Blackwall feeling rather more outright grateful to Cole then, especially if you make Cole more of a spirit.

 

No, not really. He could be a bit cryptic, and occasionally he'd go into a poetic description of something (like how he feels). But he didn't have the alliteration, or the vivid descriptions of people's thoughts/feelings etc. I assume it's because he genuinely believed he was the original Cole at that time, so he couldn't really tap into his spirit senses/empathy, simillar to how he can't on the human path in DAI.

 

Thanks, and very good point. I agree that his speech patterns and especially the alliteration are likely strongly tied to his spirit-senses. He perceives so many connections that humans can't even imagine, maybe this is his way to try and express them. His way of speaking is one of the things I really love about him, and another reason why I prefer the spirit-path.

 

Sadly, his post-Adamant panic reminds me of how he was in Asunder, since he tended to be quite unsure and nervous.

 

That conversation hit me really hard, especially the way he gasps for breath at one point. It made me want to open a rift right there, stalk through, find the Nightmare demon again and do something REALLY unpleasant to it that it'll never recover from.

[Dust]

Actually, I think his approval IS a little bit tricky compares to the others. In early game, you get his approval mainly by helping people in Hinterland with him in your team, there are at least 9 side quests you can get him to like you, but if you go with mages or a truly perfectionist, you’ve probably already finished all these quests before you met him. And if you’re also a two daggers , you won’t bring him in the early game, so you wouldn’t even notice what you’ve lost, because unlike the others, he doesn't have so many gathering or killing quests marked on your map to boost his approval, he is not even talkative enough for you to get his approval by asking questions. It is fairly true that many new players have no idea how to get him to like them.

 

Well, you do can hover around Skyhold and try to figure out why he did all these weird stuff. But tbh, I did everything I can and finally complete this invisible quest in my third playthough with a lot of help of you guys and many times of S/L. I have to admit this is not an easy way, especially when many people having Skyhold loading glitch just like me. So, except you really pay attention to him (which he won’t help at all.) , getting his approval is pretty hard early in the game. So basically your only chance to keep him around is discard templar order, help Briala free from punishment and banish the wardens. Of curse we know him, know his stance and what he had been through, know that he has good reasons to think you don’t care about people by doing the opposite. However for those who playing this game like eating junk foods won’t be happy about a companion who is too hard to please.

 

What we can do about these mindless haters? Would update his approval wiki page help?

[Pasta]

His disapproval, his biggest disapproval for me was my decision on recruiting the Wardens. In Halamshiral, I blackmailed and puppeteer'd the three leaders and exposed Florianne, which nets some major approval from him. Adding the side quests and correct / benevolent dialogue choices [ "I think you made a mistake" ] would secure his approval enough IMO. That was in my PTs choosing the Mages which means he got in after Skyhold. 

 

It's been a pretty long time but I think it's even easier to net his approval if you choose Templar and have him earlier. Bring him out with you and go help people. Quite easy...

 

A question though, how do you guys trigger the bread conversation from his oddity chain banter? Which NPC and in what part of Skyhold initiate this? I never seem to successfully trigger this, I'm sad

 

I'm drained of motivation to continue my fanfic cause I need feedback and advice! Ideas are bursting in my mind but 

[BraveVesperia]

Yes, he said he "learned to be more like what I am" when he was along, and while he's still uncertain, hurting and trying to make sense of it all by the time we meet him, he already has come a long way on his own. That is one reason why I really dislike him being treated as if he was a helpless child or a weak thing in need of cossetting. For some of the kindness and care he keeps giving others to be reflected back at him, yes. To be wrapped in gauze and treated like he can't care for himself, no. He has quite a bit of strength in him, but it's a quieter kind than the more commonly acknowledged extroverted/aggressive/take-charge sort.

 I agree, it's pretty incredible! Especially because in the middle of that uncertainty, he'll go to Therinfal (despite being so emotionally connected to the original Cole's struggles) to make sure he won't hurt anyone again, and then to help the templars themselves. He has such a large amount of personal strength, I mean, he'd have to in order to deal with so many people's pain. I think the trouble is that many people associate culture-shock and a unique world-view, with being a child. Merrill gets that an awful lot as well for some of her comments. 

 

That's probably why the gravestone is there, yes. But in a way, that's a sign of hope, IMO -- he has already lived his worst nightmare and survived it. Scarred and changed, yes, but he made it through and keeps recovering more and more. Him not going full-on demon mode even back then is another good sign. Maybe he talks as if he was a demon because he's (rightfully) hard on himself for his past actions and because of the whole "mortal opinion can influence spirits" thing? Everyone around him thinks "Demon!", he feels it, sees all he did wrong, and sadly thinks "... yes" even though he doesn't want it to be true. It almost seemed to me as if he needed Solas' much more positive influence before he allowed himself to recognize himself as maybe, hopefully, a spirit.

 

There are moments when I want to force-feed Solas his own staff, sideways, but the unique gentleness he shows Cole is a huge reason why I end up liking him regardless.

Good point! I like to think that means he won't go down the same road again, now that he's lived it. If he's attuned to people's thoughts and emotions, I imagine he's even more likely to react strongly to people thinking 'demon' than other spirits (epsecially if someone like Rhys was one of those people  ). Plus, the Lord-Seeker at the time used a Litany of Adralla on him at the time to 'prove' he was a demon. I'm not sure exactly how the Litany works (or if Cole does), but that could influence his thinking.

It makes me really happy that Solas talks to him about being a spirit of compassion and emphasises just how precious such spirits are. Cole gets so little recognition for what he does, it's good to see!

 

That was good, though it's still kind of lukewarm and I'd have liked a truly positive reply after all their banters have played out. I'd imagine Blackwall feeling rather more outright grateful to Cole then, especially if you make Cole more of a spirit.

I felt the same way about when you ask Cassandra for advice. Prior to befriending Cole, she just says the Inquisitor should send him away because he's dangerous, but afterwards she doesn't say anything. It would've been a nice touch for her to comment on how she's changed her mind, especially after he helps her come to terms with her revelations about the Seekers.

 

Thanks, and very good point. I agree that his speech patterns and especially the alliteration are likely strongly tied to his spirit-senses. He perceives so many connections that humans can't even imagine, maybe this is his way to try and express them. His way of speaking is one of the things I really love about him, and another reason why I prefer the spirit-path.

No problem! His speech is so poetic on the spirit path (and sometimes before then). Hard to understand, but worth it if you piece it together. I didn't realise on my first PT, but when they return to Solas' study and Varric is concerned, Cole references the history with Bartrand. I imagine I'll understand it more and more with each spirit path playthrough!

 

That conversation hit me really hard, especially the way he gasps for breath at one point. It made me want to open a rift right there, stalk through, find the Nightmare demon again and do something REALLY unpleasant to it that it'll never recover from.

Me too. I went straight to the war table to find the amulet, because I really wanted to do something to help him and show my support. It was the top priority! Bloody Nightmare. I'm glad that when Solas/Varric are in the Fade with Cole, then they assure him that no one is comparing the two.

 

@Pasta, is that the one in the kitchen maybe? I think all of the 'odd things' locations are: kitchen, inside tavern, outside tavern, battlements, in front of the main gate, main hall (near the mosaic dwarf).

[Pasta]

I tried everything T__T I got the rest of it to trigger but not the bread one! I'm going to try again tomorrow, before doing anything else with Skyhold after I arrived and scout the hell outta that fortress' every nook and cranny for ittttttttttt

[Korva]

@Pasta: I think it starts down by the tents in the outer courtyard, close to the gate? That is one I missed the first time, too.

 

@Dust: Hm, I think you have a point ... someone who doesn't give him a chance early because they think him to be "creepy" or simply not interesting may have a harder time of it. I heard that he gives approval for sidequests that help people even when he's not in the active party -- but finishing the Hinterlands before recruiting him closes a lot of these sidequests without taking advantage of that.

 

At any rate, I think real "haters", people who are absolutely bent on despising a character, won't be convinced by anything. Cole seems to be a rather popular character, though, so I think he's quite good at winning over those who do give him a chance.

[Dust]

I tried everything T__T I got the rest of it to trigger but not the bread one! I'm going to try again tomorrow, before doing anything else with Skyhold after I arrived and scout the hell outta that fortress' every nook and cranny for ittttttttttt

Are you encountering the famous loading glitch? Have you tried standing at the right places save and load? The bread one can be triggered after you’ve complete the other 4 conversations, yes, it’s at the kitchen, and then go to tents area to complete it.

 

At any rate, I think real "haters", people who are absolutely bent on despising a character, won't be convinced by anything. Cole seems to be a rather popular character, though, so I think he's quite good at winning over those who do give him a chance.

 

Trust me, I know that. And I also know that real “lovers" won’t be convinced by anything eitherXD. But somehow I like how they set up his approval dynamic. It’s hidden, hard to find easy to miss, but also way more meaningful and challenging and arc fitting than simple gathering missions.

[Dust]

post more arts haven't post them for years!

A figure in the shadows... quite, but protective... A danger for the danger, 

safe, warm,

Cole that keep the earth warm when nobody is looking.

 

- by barelysirius

 

 

Oh I like this one sooooo much~

[Nette]

Found another gem! I love the friendship between Dorian and Cole



Cole: "Dorian, am I handsome?"
Dorian: "Are you what?"
Cole: "You say you're handsome all the time. Am I? I can't tell."
Dorian: "You're all right. Might want to rethink the hat."
Cole: "But I LIKE my hat!"


Source: http://www.deviantar...anter-515138170

[Kierro Ren]

I like Cole, and I have a hard time understanding how some people hate him. He's basically a child. His oddities won me over tenfolds. I take him when ever I can. I'll admit, he's a Buzz Killinton at times. Like Varric and whoever, might say something funny, then Cole'll say something sad shortly after. An example, not sure if he does say something similar. "She drowned... screaming... but no words... terrified... her knight in shining armor never came... sad." It's like... wow, bad timing Cole. Aside from that he's an awsome character.

[almasy87]

It's a bit silly, but I made this
Cole is so sweet, and I totally adore his dialogues

http://almasy87.devi...fight-515898489

[Master Warder Z_]

And also by understanding why he does odd things in Skyhold. That's how he won me over, Cole is just the kindest.

I admit his revelations about Lambert were interesting; actually seeing the viewpoint I espoused the character had for years turn out to be true was nice.

Not a good man, not a warm or compassionate man but a man of faith and order.

And Cole killed him.

[Hinjo]

I wonder, what will happen when you take Cole in "Doom Upon All The World" and do not finish his companion quest? Can you do it at all?