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[Lady Noelle]

Yeah, this thread..

 

God I love you! Spazzy cats

[Leoroc]

I never thought of Cole as a child, more like an adult (teen?) with mental problems.

 

He had amnesia, that's the first thing you learn about him. He can't remember who he is or how he ended in the tower. But an adult with amnesia is not a child. Not knowing or understanding laws or morals doesn't make you a child either. If you pick any adult and send him to a foreign country, he will most certainly not understand some of their customs. Hell, look at Morrigan in Origins, she finds ridiculous half the things you take for granted (maternal love, good manners, sympathy...). Is she any less of an adult for that?

 

I don't think he doesn't undestand sex either. He may not be interested in it, but that's a different matter. I can't remember, but, doesn't he  feel embarrassed when Evangeline finds out he saw her nude? Which means that, even if it wasn't a sexual act for him, he knows it could be considered sexual.

 

Tarzan could be described in much the same way, he was literally a feral child. Was the Tarzan/Jane relationship inappropriate?

[KirstyLionheart]

Tarzan could be described in much the same way, he was literally a feral child. Was the Tarzan/Jane relationship inappropriate?

Now I just see our Inquisitor gearing and partying up for adventure, when s/he realises.. "wait.. where's Cole..?"   *scene cuts to Cole swinging from tree to tree in nearby woods*

[The Night Haunter]

Yeah, this thread..

Lol, cute kitty

[BubbleDncr]

How would it just me max friendship if I want a platonic romance - involving romantic feelings? Romance doesn't suddenly mean sex. I know what I want from a "romance". How are you going to define to me what the word means and what I mean by/want from it?

 

Because you, as the player, would still be feeling those feelings? 

 

But if Cole started expressing romantic feelings towards the Inquisitor, it would no longer be a platonic relationship. 

 

And dictionaries define what words mean. If they don't mean what you want them to mean, use different words.

 

Edit to clarify more:

 

The only difference between a max friendship with Cole, and what would otherwise be a true platonic relationship, is that the Inquisitor would probably make all his/her decisions with Cole's best interests in mind, or to be what Cole would want, in a platonic love. Which isn't anything that needs to be written by the writers, but simply how the player roleplays their character. Perhaps the only other difference would be to have the option to say "I love you." Which even with max friendship, I'll concede, you probably wouldn't get. 

[calvinien]

Based on the info in asunder:

 

 

Spoiler

I think cole is a despair demon. gaider said that despair, fear, envy and remorse demons exist but have not been seen yet, but we will see at least one of them in DAI. I think that's cole. Consider: The spirit/demon came to the human cole when he was alone due to the templars forgetting him. I can't think of a more desperate way to go than starving to death alone in the dark due to being forgotten. Also consider his MO. He killed people who WANTED to die and gained some kind of power from it. That matches demons to a T. Spirits take strength from some aspect of the human psyche. Sounds to me like demon!cole is feeding off their despair. It would be an interesting way to introduce a new type of demon (and throw some gray into the spirits=good. demons=bad business which is unusually black and white for a setting that loves moral ambiguity.) and could produce some very interesting character conflict with cassandra or vivienne.

[KirstyLionheart]

Because you, as the player, would still be feeling those feelings? 

 

But if Cole started expressing romantic feelings towards the Inquisitor, it would no longer be a platonic relationship. 

 

And dictionaries define what words mean. If they don't mean what you want them to mean, use different words.

 

Edit to clarify more:

 

The only difference between a max friendship with Cole, and what would otherwise be a true platonic relationship, is that the Inquisitor would probably make all his/her decisions with Cole's best interests in mind, or to be what Cole would want, in a platonic love. Which isn't anything that needs to be written by the writers, but simply how the player roleplays their character. Perhaps the only other difference would be to have the option to say "I love you." Which even with max friendship, I'll concede, you probably wouldn't get. 

How is that so? That's like saying Sebastian's (awful), chaste platonic romance was no longer a chaste platonic romance after he expressed romantic feelings towards Hawke.

I don't know if you're just against Cole as LI, or if you're not understanding what I'd like to happen. Not what I expect to happen. If your feelings are that invested in the subject then feel free to read a few pages back about what I and others would want from a platonic romance. Not a friendship with delusions that it's actually love with some romantic roleplaying going on.

But I digress. I don't want to dominate this thread with talk/debates on romance. Cole is a wonderful character, and romance certainly isn't even close to the forefront of the list of reasons I adore him and look forward to him in game.

(:

[Wolfen09]

i dont think the tarzan argument applies at all, tarzan was raised as a gorilla, not as a human....  cole continuously thought he was human, so to compare him to someone who has no sense of being human in the first place is a little unfair to tarzan

[Omikuji]

Based on the info in asunder:

 

 

Spoiler

I think cole is a despair demon. gaider said that despair, fear, envy and remorse demons exist but have not been seen yet, but we will see at least one of them in DAI. I think that's cole. Consider: The spirit/demon came to the human cole when he was alone due to the templars forgetting him. I can't think of a more desperate way to go than starving to death alone in the dark due to being forgotten. Also consider his MO. He killed people who WANTED to die and gained some kind of power from it. That matches demons to a T. Spirits take strength from some aspect of the human psyche. Sounds to me like demon!cole is feeding off their despair. It would be an interesting way to introduce a new type of demon (and throw some gray into the spirits=good. demons=bad business which is unusually black and white for a setting that loves moral ambiguity.) and could produce some very interesting character conflict with cassandra or vivienne.

Hrmm I donno, the demons feed and thrive off of their significant label. So if he was a despair demon of some sort, he would thrive in despair getting it from other people rather then wallowing in it himself. In the Masked Empire, they showed off a new demon(or spirit as he likes to claim) of Choice. Imshael was tied to having to follow the rules of having to only do deals through 'choices'. Coles act of killing the people who wanted to die was more of an act of mercy rather then having them being in a state of despair. 

 

It's really hard to place what sort of Demon Cole would be if he is one, or even as a spirit. He's more complex compared to the shallow demons we have seen so far (aside from Imshael who was able to not only be crafty, snarky, vengeful and didn't need to go kill the party). When he killed the people and had them see him he felt whole, seemed like less their despair and more just being able to see Cole was enough for him. I forget the exact quote he said to Rhys but it had something to do with being that persons entire world for a moment and being someone to another person made him feel. 

[TeenBanshee]

Couldn't Cole be something entirely different that we don't know about?

[Wolfen09]

im in the same boat here, the whole speculation on what type of demon he is or a demon turned into some spirit really doesnt make sense in my opinion....  im of the mind that he is something completely different from a demon or a spirit

[Omikuji]

Yeah that's what makes Cole really interesting. Lambert said he was a demon, people who are fairly skilled in demons have no idea what Cole is, a demon may have been hinting at knowing what Cole was (though it was hard to tell if it was about Cole or to just get Rhys' attention) an even at the end of the book Cole only speaks in egnamic terms which either meant he figured it out completely or just about the memory of 'Cole'.

 

He certainly is something different and an oddity, why else would he be on the Inquisition since they said the companions this time around are the best of the best. Representing an aspect of something in the world event thing or something like that. Cole is more likely that spirit/demon that isn't in the same class as the demon/spirits we've seen before. Maybe like Imshael?

 

It's hard to even class him as some sort of Fade spirit too though, since while he was in the Fade he was at the mercy of it just like everyone else...

[Frikipolleces]

People always point to this scene as proof that Cole is a child with no sex drive (I think even DG mentions it), but me in all my nutty inclusiveness first read this scene and simply immediately assumed that he was gay. 

 

LOL. Well, I never really thought about that. Have it your way, I suppose 

 

In a previous thread about Cole (and perhaps in this one as well?) it was suggested that he was a a benevolent spirit that came to confort Cole-the-farmer in his deathbed, but at some point turned into something more demon-like. Since we don't have real info on the topic, it's as good a guess as any other...

 

Now, I was thinking about something regarding Cole... Do we even know how he ended in the tower? I assume he displayed some magical ability at some point, but was that as an adult (20-ish) or as a boy, immediately after that thing with his sister?

 

If the former, what was he doing in the meantime? If the later, does that mean he's ageing, even as a spirit? Because he couldn't possibly have aged in that cell.

[Faerah]

Hrmm I donno, the demons feed and thrive off of their significant label. So if he was a despair demon of some sort, he would thrive in despair getting it from other people rather then wallowing in it himself. In the Masked Empire, they showed off a new demon(or spirit as he likes to claim) of Choice. Imshael was tied to having to follow the rules of having to only do deals through 'choices'. Coles act of killing the people who wanted to die was more of an act of mercy rather then having them being in a state of despair. 

 

This just made me think of something...I remember reading that spirits and demons were supposed to be fundamentally different (said by a dev, if I remember right, possibly DG, I think it might have been in an informal meeting with a fan though). A lot of people like to go by what Merrill says though, even though she's just a character with a possibly flawed view.

 

So what if demons are entities that live off of their attribute; they feed off of mortals, and possibly other fade entities with their token emotion. Spirits on the other hand are ruled by their attribute. Everything they do, everything they decide, has to reflect their token virtue. I mean it should be obvious, since what spirits and demons we've gotten the chance to converse with, this theory seems to fit well. But the problem lies with Cole...he almost seems like neither of these apply, or both perhaps. At the beginning of the book, he feeds as if he's a demon with the mercy kills...But obviously later he realizes he doesn't have to and stops. I mean, he could still be a demon, but he has mastered his hunger if so. He isn't ruled by it anymore, so to speak.

[XMissWooX]

Now, I was thinking about something regarding Cole... Do we even know how he ended in the tower? I assume he displayed some magical ability at some point, but was that as an adult (20-ish) or as a boy, immediately after that thing with his sister?
 
If the former, what was he doing in the meantime? If the later, does that mean he's ageing, even as a spirit? Because he couldn't possibly have aged in that cell.

I mentioned in an earlier post that it almost seems as if he's subconciously altering his physical appearance to match his believed age.
Which I suppose is all part of him truly believing he was a human.

[Hellion Rex]

This just made me think of something...I remember reading that spirits and demons were supposed to be fundamentally different (said by a dev, if I remember right, possibly DG, I think it might have been in an informal meeting with a fan though). A lot of people like to go by what Merrill says though, even though she's just a character with a possibly flawed view.
 .

Actually, from what I have gathered, the devs have never said the two groups are fundamentally different. A more recent example would be Imshael, who clearly acts like what we dub as a "demon" and yet still prefers to be called a spirit.

[XMissWooX]

Actually, from what I have gathered, the devs have never said the two groups are fundamentally different. A more recent example would be Imshael, who clearly acts like what we dub as a "demon" and yet still prefers to be called a spirit.

Also, in the Trivia section at the bottom of the Wiki page for Spirits (http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Spirit) it states that "Contrary to popular belief, David Gaider never said that spirits and demons are fundamentally different." Although the source link is apparently broken.

[Solas]

But reading them as straight with no reason to do so is okay?

I didn't say that now did I

[Faerah]

This is where the spirit speculation comes from. I should advise taking the info with a grain of salt though since it's by word of mouth from a fan.

 

 

 

Lastly, Gaider implied that spirits and demons are, by nature, different, something which I was never quite clear on. They are not exactly the same thing, despite what Merrill and others would have you believe.

[CENIC]

Tarzan could be described in much the same way, he was literally a feral child. Was the Tarzan/Jane relationship inappropriate?

I think what most people find squicky about a relationship with Cole is the implications of pedophilia, not his feralness/social underdevelopment.
Though frankly I think romancing a socially underdeveloped adult like Tarzan is equally squicky. You're still taking advantage of someone who doesn't understand what you're doing and can't consent.

EDIT: There's also the fact that Tarzan is an adult man being "taken advantage of" by a beautiful woman. In our culture, that's considered "getting lucky."

[Solas]

perhaps not equally squicky, but not far off

[CENIC]

It'll be such a relief to finally see and hear Cole in action. Either he's a little boy or he's not, and I'll finally be able to move on

[KirstyLionheart]

It'll be such a relief to finally see and hear Cole in action. Either he's a little boy or he's not, and I'll finally be able to move on

You're telling me! I need closure!

[Maraas]

You're still taking advantage of someone who doesn't understand what you're doing and can't consent.

Sorry for jumping in, but I seem to remember that Cole is perfectly aware of what mages in the Tower sometimes do for that fleeting moment of (non)human connection. And he doesn't exacty strike me as dumb. Sure he's detached (he's forced to be), but he's functional and knowledgeable enough to understand the purpose of your advances. )) As is Tarzan, for that matter; I honestly always thought it was him taking advantage of Jane and not the other way around, but it's been ages.

[Omikuji]

This just made me think of something...I remember reading that spirits and demons were supposed to be fundamentally different (said by a dev, if I remember right, possibly DG, I think it might have been in an informal meeting with a fan though). A lot of people like to go by what Merrill says though, even though she's just a character with a possibly flawed view.

 

So what if demons are entities that live off of their attribute; they feed off of mortals, and possibly other fade entities with their token emotion. Spirits on the other hand are ruled by their attribute. Everything they do, everything they decide, has to reflect their token virtue. I mean it should be obvious, since what spirits and demons we've gotten the chance to converse with, this theory seems to fit well. But the problem lies with Cole...he almost seems like neither of these apply, or both perhaps. At the beginning of the book, he feeds as if he's a demon with the mercy kills...But obviously later he realizes he doesn't have to and stops. I mean, he could still be a demon, but he has mastered his hunger if so. He isn't ruled by it anymore, so to speak.

 

I swear I've heard that talk before too, but not from the wiki. I can't remember where, maybe it was on the old forums somewhere when I lurked there...

 

Even Imshael seemed ruled by his own demon nature, or he was just ansty and wanted out so played a role. It always made me curious about the demons when all they said they wanted to do was see the world and go away please I have a nice host person that can be my car. We haven't seen too many spirits and those we have seen eventually get their own hosts as well and even Justices twists overwhelmed by all he's seen or something like that. Even then the Fade creatures are just really curious about the outside world and make sad attempts at recreating it probably very bored of what they have in the Fade wanting that new or the new is just really inciting to them.

 

Gwad dangit, if Felassan was around he would have been super interesting to talk to in game. Could you imagen what possibilites he could have brought up? He knew Imshael almost on friendly terms and wasn't bothered by him busting out like the others, even got him to scoot off with the promise of the obvious events of DAI, then had that final conversation with something big, I bet he would have had something on Cole in game.

 

But noooo he just had to go and be too awesome...