6175 réponses à ce sujet

[Eveangaline]

That very well may be what they're doing, and it's a perfectly valid way to go about it. 
 
I'm just thinking, in a very detached way, how beautiful the faces of all the Cole-fans would be in that moment when he stabs them in the back after all the hugs and support they've thrown his way. 
 
And like I said, it's not out of a sense of wanting to see anyone suffer; it's just from a writing perspective, getting that kind of reaction out of people is a beautiful thing. And I hate to see opportunities wasted.

If you want reaction have varric betray you. Not doing that is a bigger waste.

[twincast]

I too am surprised by PW writing him, of course, but I consider him in good hands, so that's all fine and stuff, but damn you, Sera, why?!

 

And I really hope the game lets us properly role-play being wary at first but gradually falling for the poor quasi-kid's adorable antics.

 

Problem is, while my 2nd Quizzie (f. human mage) could well be all curious, motherly and non-judgy from the very beginning, I just don't see my 1st one (m. elf rogue) starting like a big brother to a spirit right off the bat, being raised Dalish and all. The closer we get to release, the more bothered I feel by that...

[XMissWooX]

Well, it seems like a perspective issue. All the characters are capable of being dangerous, or they wouldn't be there. Most of them have strong beliefs and strong ties to factions which may be in opposition to the course you want to take. I think there are almost always reasons why you could rationally want to eliminate characters as possible threats to your personal goals.
 
That being said, I've never wanted to murder knife a companions so far. Nobody has ever died or left me in a playthrough. 

Oh I agree with you. I just meant that, since people who have already read Asunder have some background on Cole (and he was, shall we say, less than angelic there), and knowledge of his powers (which, on paper, are immensely powerful), I could understand (even if I disagree with) them wanting to try to deal with Cole in a more permanent fashion.

This, as opposed to people randomly wanting to kill Sera or Solas because apparently there is something about them that warrants a horribly gruesome death.

[Russian Berserker]

yeah, thing is the Iron Bull hates demons

[KC_Prototype]

I was expecting David Gaider to write Cole but I'm fine with Patrick Weekes because he did a good job in the Masked Empire. I also want to note that it was expected that Vivienne would hate Cole and Sera to not even want to talk to, as Patrick puts it, "it". Also, I thought the Iron Bull would hate Cole or at least be weary and distrustful of Cole but it seems he's cool with him, but maybe not at first. Also, I found the, "Demon? LOL Nope!" funny.

[Eveangaline]

yeah, thing is the Iron Bull hates demons

maybe he has Kirkwall blindness and can't tell that Cole is a spirit dealy

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think there's more narrative value in using Cole to demonstrate the duality of fade creatures than making him a villain and confirming that spirits/demons are full stop bad. I think it's an interesting turn that it seems they can blur the lines between demon and spirit, and go between the two by force of will. I would rather they explored that than played a meta trick on the audience by railing Cole into the evil track, like you'd expect from a "demon". That isn't to say I would be opposed to some choices making Cole "evil", but I think they would waste an opportunity by not allowing the spirits to have a more complex existence than what a lot of Thedas assumes them to have. What I think makes the world they've built great is that almost everything is shades of grey and I think it would be great to portray the fade race as being as much so as any other on Thedas, despite the extreme negative opinions and lack of understanding everyone outside the fade has of them. 

[Former_Fiend]

If you want reaction have varric betray you. Not doing that is a bigger waste.

 

See, that wouldn't necessarily get the same reaction, though. Varric's your buddy, he's your friend. So that's the kind of love people have for Varric.

 

Most people here don't seem to want to be Cole's friend; they want to be Cole's parent figure. Having a child betray you and having a friend betray you are, I think, very different things. 

 

It's also a point where I wouldn't want it to come absolutely out of no-where. Varric betraying you has no basis or set up. Cole betraying the group has plausibility because he's a demon so despite whatever conceptions people have of him in regards to just needing a lot of hugs, there'll be that moment after the shock and horror of "well, duh."

[Tootles FTW]

I don't think shock value for the sake of "What a twist!" equals good writing necessarily, and unless Bioware is being intentionally disingenuous with Cole's site bio I don't think they're lying when they say that Cole is at the least trying to be a good person.  

 

Cole is DAI's Legion, methinks.

[Former_Fiend]

I think there's more narrative value in using Cole to demonstrate the duality of fade creatures than making him a villain and confirming that spirits/demons are full stop bad. I think it's an interesting turn that it seems they can blur the lines between demon and spirit, and go between the two by force of will. I would rather they explored that than played a meta trick on the audience by railing Cole into the evil track, like you'd expect from a "demon". That isn't to say I would be opposed to some choices making Cole "evil", but I think they would waste an opportunity by not allowing the spirits to have a more complex existence than what a lot of Thedas assumes them to have. What I think makes the world they've built great is that almost everything is shades of grey and I think it would be great to portray the fade race as being as much so as any other on Thedas, despite the extreme negative opinions and lack of understanding everyone outside the fade has of them. 

 

I think there's more narrative value in using Cole to demonstrate the duality of fade creatures than making him a villain and confirming that spirits/demons are full stop bad. I think it's an interesting turn that it seems they can blur the lines between demon and spirit, and go between the two by force of will. I would rather they explored that than played a meta trick on the audience by railing Cole into the evil track, like you'd expect from a "demon". That isn't to say I would be opposed to some choices making Cole "evil", but I think they would waste an opportunity by not allowing the spirits to have a more complex existence than what a lot of Thedas assumes them to have. What I think makes the world they've built great is that almost everything is shades of grey and I think it would be great to portray the fade race as being as much so as any other on Thedas, despite the extreme negative opinions and lack of understanding everyone outside the fade has of them. 

 

From an over all perspective, I don't necessarily disagree. That would be of greater benefit to the franchise as a whole.

 

I'll admit I'm looking at a very small picture here; just that moment on the first playthrough where all the Cole-huggers don this face;

 

 

That would be a beautiful moment. Kind of moment people post reaction videos of on youtube.

 

Would it be worth it in the long run? Probably not. But for that moment of time, it would be glorious.

[Cespar]

 

 

From an over all perspective, I don't necessarily disagree. That would be of greater benefit to the franchise as a whole.

 

I'll admit I'm looking at a very small picture here; just that moment on the first playthrough where all the Cole-huggers don this face;

 

 

That would be a beautiful moment. Kind of moment people post reaction videos of on youtube.

 

Would it be worth it in the long run? Probably not. But for that moment of time, it would be glorious.

So, you take happiness in other people misery…? Cause, that's what I'm getting from your posts. 

[Kimarous]

I don't think shock value for the sake of "What a twist!" equals good writing necessarily, and unless Bioware is being intentionally disingenuous with Cole's site bio I don't think they're lying when they say that Cole is at the least trying to be a good person.  

 

Cole is DAI's Legion, methinks.

 

Seems like a rather apt comparison, especially if we view Sera as the resident Tali.

[Eveangaline]

See, that wouldn't necessarily get the same reaction, though. Varric's your buddy, he's your friend. So that's the kind of love people have for Varric.
 
Most people here don't seem to want to be Cole's friend; they want to be Cole's parent figure. Having a child betray you and having a friend betray you are, I think, very different things. 
 
It's also a point where I wouldn't want it to come absolutely out of no-where. Varric betraying you has no basis or set up. Cole betraying the group has plausibility because he's a demon so despite whatever conceptions people have of him in regards to just needing a lot of hugs, there'll be that moment after the shock and horror of "well, duh."

We already had almost exactly that with anders though. Doing it again with Cole would just be kind of...dull? Varri on the other hand is your buddy pal amigo and stalwart companion of two games. A betrayal from him would evoke mug stronger reactions.

[Tootles FTW]

So, you take happiness in other people misery…? Cause, that's what I'm getting from your posts. 

 

Isn't "Schadenfreude" David Gaider's middle name?  

[twincast]

'M long outta likes, and many more in this thread deserve one, but these two do so especially, and since the thread is fast enough that by the time I get new likes to pass out, I most likely won't be able to find them again, consider these two liked in big, bold letters:

 

I think there's more narrative value in using Cole to demonstrate the duality of fade creatures than making him a villain and confirming that spirits/demons are full stop bad. I think it's an interesting turn that it seems they can blur the lines between demon and spirit, and go between the two by force of will. I would rather they explored that than played a meta trick on the audience by railing Cole into the evil track, like you'd expect from a "demon". That isn't to say I would be opposed to some choices making Cole "evil", but I think they would waste an opportunity by not allowing the spirits to have a more complex existence than what a lot of Thedas assumes them to have. What I think makes the world they've built great is that almost everything is shades of grey and I think it would be great to portray the fade race as being as much so as any other on Thedas, despite the extreme negative opinions and lack of understanding everyone outside the fade has of them. 

 

 

I don't think shock value for the sake of "What a twist!" equals good writing necessarily, and unless Bioware is being intentionally disingenuous with Cole's site bio I don't think they're lying when they say that Cole is at the least trying to be a good person.  

 

Cole is DAI's Legion, methinks.

 

Edit: Yes, that's what permalinks are for, but remembering that would be one hell of a hassle.

[Eveangaline]

From an over all perspective, I don't necessarily disagree. That would be of greater benefit to the franchise as a whole.
 
I'll admit I'm looking at a very small picture here; just that moment on the first playthrough where all the Cole-huggers don this face;
 

 
That would be a beautiful moment. Kind of moment people post reaction videos of on youtube.
 
Would it be worth it in the long run? Probably not. But for that moment of time, it would be glorious.

You could get that face from any characters fans by having then betray them. Heck you could get it from te entire fan base from making the end be everyone gets killed by ewoks.

[Former_Fiend]

So, you take happiness in other people misery…? Cause, that's what I'm getting from your posts. 

 

I wouldn't put it like that.

 

I think of it more as appreciating the craftsmanship of the trap that has been set. 

[twincast]

So, you take happiness in other people misery…? Cause, that's what I'm getting from your posts. 

 

On the one hand, he keeps explicitly claiming that he doesn't, but on the other, he keeps describing stuff like what you quoted which very much screams of such. Weird guy.

[Tootles FTW]

You could get that face from any characters fans by having then betray them. Heck you could get it from te entire fan base from making the end be everyone gets killed by ewoks.

 

I think that was my face at the end of ME3, honestly.

[zombitologist]

The Legion analogy actually works for me. I could see that happening.

[Former_Fiend]

I look at it like this; I admire this situation in the way you'd admire a shark. A shark is an eloquent killing machine, perfectly designed for what it does. Do I want to get killed by a shark? No. Do I want to see anyone get killed by a shark? No. But I want to see the shark kill something, because that's where you see the beauty if it's design in action. 

[twincast]

I think that was my face at the end of ME3, honestly.

 

Mine wasn't so much a sort of WTF but a one.

[Tootles FTW]

They had the Emissary (sorry, I think that was his name?) & Architect in DAA that humanized, in a way, the Darkspawn (it gave them a point of view, anyways, beyond "Blarglegaaaar!!!! /stab /smash"), and in the same game you had a voice for Fade Spirits (Justice, obviously) that made them seem like real people beyond mere representations of an emotion or ideal.  

 

We have yet to really get anything from a demon beyond evil, though, and I think Cole is the perfect opportunity to blur the line.  Same with the introduction of Dorian, actually - gasp! A NICE Tevinter magister?!  

 

EDIT - @Former_Fiend - Cole wouldn't exactly be a "shark" in the way you describe since he's essentially a shark wearing a shark costume underneath a neon signing saying "SHARK".  It would be boring if he acted like a damn shark, ya know?

[ClassicBox]

I love Cole as a character from what I know of him. But how I react to him in-game will depend on the Inquisitor I'm playing. She will only have as much knowledge as experienced through the game; oblivious to his background unless told otherwise.

 

But I am really surprised it wasn't Gaider. Patrick Weekes is a great writer and I'm excited I just thought for sure he would be continued by Gaider.

 

Anyways, so intrigued! Since we will be visiting the fade,..I wonder what happens if we bring Cole. Would he want to stay? Would he remember it? IDK it sounds fun.

[phunx]

I'm thinking Sera might start likng him once she gets to know him better? I mean their quotes are 2 sides of the same coin. She wants to hurt bad people, he wants to help people in danger!