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[stuffystuffs]

And on the other side, if Scribe Girl is the straight female LI, straight men get the short end of the stick too?

 

That won't happen.

[Maiden Crowe]

So does that mean no Bi characters at all? What does this mean for same sex relations? Does it mean there will be no same sex relations or does it mean that there will be romance options exclusive to those of the same sex? Have the writers changed their stance on exclusively same sex relationships?

[Ryzaki]

Thanks.

 

Well, at least you have two voices to choose from.

 

Yeah but I had six to choose from in SWTOR and I like 1. (FemWarrior) I tolerate 2 (FemSmug *mostly cause she doesn't suck as hard as dude smug* and Fem Inq (who...I really dislike in comparions to the male voice which is far superior and can actually nail the snarky lines where she just flails). The rest are either meh (Merc) or I utterly despise (Fem Agent), Fem Trooper.

 

Picky I am.

 

And it's not gonna help that the only reason I even managed to trudge through most of my female non SW games is because of SWTOR being a MMO and not having to hear her voice most of the time when I lvl'd thanks to liberal usesage of spacebar. (Other than death screams in PVP XD)

[JoltDealer]

*snipped*

 

It is far too late at night for me to understand that post.  I can't even tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me.

 

My problem does not lie with statistics.  I don't have an issue with bisexual or gay romances.  I merely agree with Cameron Lee's statements because making all available romance options bisexual ala Dragon Age 2 seems unrealistic and unlikely.  Although that is not to say that being bisexual is unrealistic in any way, shape, or form.  2/2/2 is fine with me, but I'd also be fine with an increase in any group.  It's an equal representation of the three most common sexual orientations and it still ends up being three options per gender (unless my math is wrong).

[Brass_Buckles]

I've been reading through the thread and I'm more confident now than when I made this post that we'll get a fair distribution, based on someone finally finding the link where David Gaider talked about resources allowing an "even spread", plus the impression I get from Allan's commentary. I hope they don't take too long to tell as at least what sort of demographics we're looking at with sexualities (doesn't need to be characters confirmed, just distribution figures) but for now I feel more hopeful. We'll see. 

 

The only problem is even if there is an even distribution, if the two straight OR the two bisexual LIs are NPCs rather than companions, someone's going to get shorted because companions inherently have more content.  And that is neither equal nor is it right.  I guess if there are two NPC romances and both are bisexual, then at least both straight and gay/lesbian people get shorted by the same amount.  But more likely the companions will be bisexual and/or gay/lesbian, and I'm kind of afraid Cullen will be the only NPC romance, leaving straight women with only one option who is an actual companion.  Going by distribution, it's still fair, but going by actual content, it very much isn't, even if you're a die-hard Cullen fan.

 

I don't want to assume that is what they will do/have done, but I repeat, it's late and I'm getting caught up in negative thoughts.  I really wish they'd waited on releasing that article.

[ahellbornlady]

I guess I'll give my predictions. Note this isn't what I want, but what I think will happen.

 

Cullen (Straight)

Dorian (Bi)

Solas (Gay)

 

Cassandra (Straight)

Scribe Girl (Bi)

Vivienne (Gay)

 

I really want to romance Cassandra as a female, so I hope I'm wrong.

[AlanC9]

This is true, too.  I think everyone should have the same amount of companion options.  Part of me wants to say "but straight males traditionally have more options," but logically it isn't fair to deny them options either.  The problem here is that I have my doubts Scribe Girl is a romance at all, whereas we've got three lovely lady companions who have all been speculated as romance.  Again, if any of them are out it's probably Vivienne, but it would not surprise me at all if all three women were LIs.

 

OK. As long as everyone's aware that there are some fairly specific pessimistic assumptions in play. Personally, I'm expecting symmetry -- either all LIs will be companions, or one male and one female will be non-companions. I don't have a prediction on how orientations will figure into that; I suppose they could make the non-companions also be the bisexual characters.

[Sherbet Lemon]

I find it disingenuous that people are trying to bring up other aspects of the game to justify not agreeing with bioware's decision. You can disagree with them in their reasoning or word choice, whichever was more at fault, in using the word "realistic" to talk about this issue. But don't pretend that realism is an all or nothing approach here, and that because you have some fantastical elements in the game, everything has to be fantastical, or vice versa. It's kinda insulting to anyone who stops to think for a moment what's being said here. It's like making the argument that there's water in the game, so why can't the whole game be set underwater, and then using the existence of water as a justification of having everything be covered in water.

 

I do understand, feelings are hurt and people probably think this is a betrayal of their personal trust, or hell maybe even a statement about their beliefs or lifestyles here. People say things that aren't exactly grounded in reason and logic when they are in that sort of state, it's why flame wars happen. But let's not sit here typing and pretend that because it's a fantasy game, some aspects can't be grounded in a little more realistic manners then other aspects of the game.

 

Realisim for a worldview is dependent upon experience.  What you constitute as "reality" on some levels has bearing on a person's race, gender, sexual orientations and other things I'm forgetting to talk about.  Sexuality is fluid and dynamic.  I've seen it change and shift and then change and then shift again.  The point is realism isn't just divided into gay, lesbian and bi/pan or even asexual.  It's a bit more complicated than that. 

 

What you see as "grounded in reality" I see more as what society considers to be the "norm."  But what is considered normal is NOT reality for everyone.  My experiences have afforded me a different worldview.  Some people don't categorically define their sexuality in stringent terms and live a bit more gray.  There are straight people who identify as straight and yet get in a relationship with a person of the same sex because that ONE person is what they wanted to be with.  It wouldn't be fair to try to redefine their sexual identify because they are straight, but for one person they made an exception. 

 

I'm POC in real life and some people would never deign to date outside of their own race.  While skin color isn't necessarily an issue in Dragon Age, there are actual races that have true genetic difference and distinct cultural differences that would make a realistic relationship with certain races impossible or even unthinkable.  There are social politics within the races and yet, gender/sex distinctiveness is a true barometer of "deep characters and true character agency."  To date an elf or qunari in Thedas, if you're human probably wouldn't be a common thing.  Members of your travelling group may not even find certain racial groups attractive and despite what some people think, some people NEVER get over racial differences and would never even consider dating outside of their own race.  Exposure helps break down barriers, but does not do away with all prejudice But of course the line has to be drawn somewhere for believability and for some reason four bisexual people is "unheard of" despite that fact that other people's experiences have stated to the contrary.

 

At least, that is merely how I see it.  Yeah, I'm not going to lie, I'm a bit disappointed, but I'm still looking forward to game and as they reveal more information and we find out more about the characters, I'm sure I'll change my mind.

[Ryzaki]

I guess I'll give my predictions. Note this isn't what I want, but what I think will happen.

 

Cullen (Straight)

Dorian (Bi)

Solas (Gay)

 

Cassandra (Straight)

Scribe Girl (Bi)

Vivienne (Gay)

 

I really want to romance Cassandra as a female, so I hope I'm wrong.

 

hoping it's scribe girl that's straight.

[stuffystuffs]

Yeah but I had six to choose from in SWTOR and I like 1. (FemWarrior) I tolerate 2 (FemSmug *mostly cause she doesn't suck as hard as dude smug* and Fem Inq (who...I really dislike in comparions to the male voice which is far superior and can actually nail the snarky lines where she just flails). The rest are either meh (Merc) or I utterly despise (Fem Agent), Fem Trooper.

 

You keep getting me excited for Natasha LIttle Inquis XD

 

I can't take more disappointment!

 

 

And it's not gonna help that the only reason I even managed to trudge through most of my female non SW games is because of SWTOR being a MMO and not having to hear her voice most of the time when I lvl'd thanks to liberal usesage of spacebar. (Other than death screams in PVP XD)

 

Aw yeah...PvP was the best thing about that game.

[milena87]

Cassandra (Straight)

Scribe Girl (Bi)

Vivienne (Gay)

 

I really want to romance Cassandra as a female, so I hope I'm wrong.

 

I hope you're wrong as well

 

Cassandra bi, Scribe Girl straight and Vivienne or Sera gay would be better

[Kindred Spirit]

Oh...okay then, i guess

 

 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

The only problem is even if there is an even distribution, if the two straight OR the two bisexual LIs are NPCs rather than companions, someone's going to get shorted because companions inherently have more content.  And that is neither equal nor is it right.  I guess if there are two NPC romances and both are bisexual, then at least both straight and gay/lesbian people get shorted by the same amount.  But more likely the companions will be bisexual and/or gay/lesbian, and I'm kind of afraid Cullen will be the only NPC romance, leaving straight women with only one option who is an actual companion.  Going by distribution, it's still fair, but going by actual content, it very much isn't, even if you're a die-hard Cullen fan.

 

I don't want to assume that is what they will do/have done, but I repeat, it's late and I'm getting caught up in negative thoughts.  I really wish they'd waited on releasing that article.

The most fair distribution would be for Cullen and Scribe Girl to be NPC romances and for both to be bisexual. It's what a lot of people have been theorizing for a while. Cullen and Scribe Girl were paired together in the leaked survey unarmed, which has lead people to thinking they'd be an NPC LI set for a long time. This might not be the case, but it makes sense and would make the situation more fair.

 

Granted, I would rather not have one companion LI, either. It's not my ideal. It's just the most fair way to deal with it, since they're pretty obviously adding NPC romances.

[Brass_Buckles]

I guess I'll give my predictions. Note this isn't what I want, but what I think will happen.

 

Cullen (Straight)

Dorian (Bi)

Solas (Gay)

 

Cassandra (Straight)

Scribe Girl (Bi)

Vivienne (Gay)

 

I really want to romance Cassandra as a female, so I hope I'm wrong.

 

I hope you're wrong too because I'd prefer Solas to be a bisexual option... for two reasons:

 

First, Solas appears to be potentially a major player in the plot (Fade expert, and we've seen quite a bit of him in trailers/screenshots from magazines, by this point).  If he is bisexual, then anyone can involve themselves with a plot-related character, and engage more deeply in the story.

 

Second, Solas is an elf.  And they are usually bisexual, because people like elves.  For that same reason I suspect Sera will be a romance option, likely bisexual, as well, unless she turns out to be too young.

[pallascedar]

Please elaborate.  Feel free to go point by point, because I want to understand as best I can.

 

I'm biased by my knowledge of what's in the game.  I'll certainly concede that we'll be bumbling buffoons and epically fail in communicating that, but I'd like to better understand so that at the very least I can understand it better.  I'll make the point this time of not assuming what part of the conversation you (or anyone else) may be referring to, since it was kind of out of place for me to say that.

 

I think it's all in the way it was phrased. The way he said it seemed to imply that having many bisexual romance-able companions was a bad thing rather than what he meant: (I think) that having a larger variety of sexuality in romance-able companions is a good thing.

[Sylvianus]

that npc thing is what makes me think that system won't be really fair too, if that's what they are doing. 

[Allan Schumacher]

I find it disingenuous that people are trying to bring up other aspects of the game to justify not agreeing with bioware's decision. You can disagree with them in their reasoning or word choice, whichever was more at fault, in using the word "realistic" to talk about this issue. But don't pretend that realism is an all or nothing approach here, and that because you have some fantastical elements in the game, everything has to be fantastical, or vice versa. It's kinda insulting to anyone who stops to think for a moment what's being said here. It's like making the argument that there's water in the game, so why can't the whole game be set underwater, and then using the existence of water as a justification of having everything be covered in water.

 

I do understand, feelings are hurt and people probably think this is a betrayal of their personal trust, or hell maybe even a statement about their beliefs or lifestyles here. People say things that aren't exactly grounded in reason and logic when they are in that sort of state, it's why flame wars happen. But let's not sit here typing and pretend that because it's a fantasy game, some aspects can't be grounded in a little more realistic manners then other aspects of the game.

 

I think part of the issue is that the word usage used is awfully similar to what genuine assholes say to them so if it "looks like a duck and sounds like a duck" starts to apply.

 

It's like when I make a thread on a forum about a WW2 game and make an innocent three letter contraction for Japanese without realizing it's a racial slur.  For myself, I'm just stumbling and bumbling along.  But for anyone that finds the term offensive, I'm "yet another guy using that term in a disrespectful way.. GOD how annoying."

 

And yeah, I come victim to that in a variety of ways.  Some of it even DA related.  "Oh, another fan that is upset about <feature X>" and saying all the words that makes it easy for me to categorize them in a way simply based on how they present it.

 

 

So yeah, some people will get tripped up on how the message comes across, and it's unfortunately because presumably Cameron doesn't realize that shares a sentiment that more genuinely hateful people may also use, and it's going to set people into a defensive mode.

 

I work for BioWare, and if strange random person with no context says to me upon learning that "Man DA2 really sucked" I'm going to be disinclined to take that feedback in a very positive way.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Thoughts?  Personally, I cool with this.  It gives me more incentive to play different characters and classes.  I will never understand why some people refuse to play anything other that their gender choice.  You AREN'T the Inqusitior, you're just playing as him/her.

I intensely dislike this.  The herosexual characters were a brilliant design idea, and I hate to see them thrown away.

 

And I do happily play characters of both genders.  But I like to experience the same romances from both sides.  So what this does is actually steal some of my replayability.  Romancing a character as a female PC is different from romancing her as a male PC, largely because of the differences in how I perceive the PC.  That the actual in-game content is the same doesn't matter at all.  All the herosexual characters did was create more choices, and now those choices are being taken away.

 

Restricting gameplay options is a bad direction to go.  I am strongly against this move.

[ahellbornlady]

hoping it's scribe girl that's straight.

 Me too actually. It would be fair, since she's most likely an NPC like Cullen.

 

I wouldn't like it if the main straight LI for males is a companion romance but the straight female romance isn't.

[Vapaa]

I'm inclined to assume that some of the characters in the party simply cannot be romanced.

 

I certainly don't want every follower to be romanceable (especially Cole, just...ewww).

 

Now I will say this again, since restrictions are confirmed: at least let us flirt with every LI and get a rejection. Morrigan was annoying, but Tali and Jack were downright nonsensical.

[Allan Schumacher]

Yes, maybe I would be thinking that if I could do math. 

 

More just the issue of someone wanting "balanced romances" would presume to be okay with 2/1/1, 1/2/1, or 1/1/2.  But the thing is, in game you only actually get one of those, and it's fixed, so the "likelihood" of anything we give you still isn't likely.

[Ryzaki]

You keep getting me excited for Natasha LIttle Inquis XD

 

I can't take more disappointment!

 

 

Aw yeah...PvP was the best thing about that game.

 

Curse me being out of likes. CURSE ITTTTTT!

 

*likes all over the place*

 

But she'd be FABULOUS. When she's being muwahaha evil and when she's being compassionate she just is so...good I wantz. I wantz so much *grabby hands*  I can't either ;_; last straw I say last straw.

 

So much fun

 

 Me too actually. It would be fair, since she's most likely an NPC like Cullen.

 

I wouldn't like it if the main straight LI for males is a companion romance but the straight female romance isn't.

 

Agreed.

 

Double agreed.

[Allan Schumacher]

I apologize allan, but that post was made some time ago. The topics already come about, gotten heated, and cooled down at this point to nominal levels.

 

I appreciate the heads up however, so thank you.

 

Fair enough and I appreciate the return to equilibrium.

[devSin]

Please elaborate.  Feel free to go point by point, because I want to understand as best I can.
 
I'm biased by my knowledge of what's in the game.  I'll certainly concede that we'll be bumbling buffoons and epically fail in communicating that, but I'd like to better understand so that at the very least I can understand it better.  I'll make the point this time of not assuming what part of the conversation you (or anyone else) may be referring to, since it was kind of out of place for me to say that.

Just go back and read that segment with the belief that all the romance options (sans Sebastian) were bisexual. "The [] orientation of the [] characters [] is also more complex []. [] more realistic". (And then continuing on to "one sexual orientation", because bisexuals clearly can't make up their minds, etc.)
 
In Cameron's defense, the author really sabotaged him with the leading question and nonsensical prose surrounding his quotes, but he wasn't exactly doing himself any favors with that answer anyway (for all the times David said fairness and fun gameplay would always win out over some silly notion of "realism", when it comes time to talk about it, the only thing you can say is that it's more realistic this way? is this for real?).
 
Beyond that, I strongly desire to defer to people who have more invested here. I read it and was upset with the tone Cameron set, which made me more upset about the news than I'd otherwise be (I was expecting it, but to have it stated the way it was, it just felt a whole lot worse). But I don't think I'm really the right person to go through and point out the ways that it was problematic (I just wanted to dispute that the problem was only the "one sexual orientation" phrase).

[Brass_Buckles]

The most fair distribution would be for Cullen and Scribe Girl to be NPC romances and for both to be bisexual. It's what a lot of people have been theorizing for a while. Cullen and Scribe Girl were paired together in the leaked survey unarmed, which has lead people to thinking they'd be an NPC LI set for a long time. This might not be the case, but it makes sense and would make the situation more fair.

 

Granted, I would rather not have one companion LI, either. It's not my ideal. It's just the most fair way to deal with it, since they're pretty obviously adding NPC romances.

 

This is how I'd prefer they do it, if they are going to use NPC romances.  But, with three women and an excess of men, you'd think that it would make more sense to simply make all the women companions LIs, and add one of the men (Iron Bull seems most likely).  The downside of this is that, yes, it would have taken more resources.

 

I think, therefore, that the most likely LIs are Scribe Girl, Cullen, Cassandra, Sera, Dramatic Hands (probably Dorian), and Solas--it's unlikely they would wrangle with a qunari's size and clipping issues, Varric has reasons to be out of the playing field already, and they generally do not make older characters into romances (though I know of several people who really want that Warden--I don't care for him but I wish they could have him...).

 

If Cullen is bisexual, people are going to complain about that (but he was straight in DA:O! they will say).  If he is straight, people will complain about that (but he's hot, I wanted him too... they will say).  Same for Scribe Girl.  And then you'd get to argue over who's straight or bi among the companions...

 

The only two I can even theorize about would be Solas and DHMG.  I think Solas is likely to be bisexual, and DHMG is likely to be gay.  Solas, again, appears to be potentially very important to the plot, and in that respect it would be wrong to keep people from romancing him based on gender preference alone.