1323 réponses à ce sujet

[Mes]

I seriously doubt it, considering there is not a single reason to think that strictly straight or strictly gay characters are any more in-depth than bisexual characters.

 

Oh I completely agree.

[Former_Fiend]

I seriously doubt it, considering there is not a single reason to think that strictly straight or strictly gay characters are any more in-depth than bisexual characters.

 

I think the general implication is that because they don't have to record two sets of dialogue to cover all the he's and she's, or customize a romance scene to account for the different body types between genders as well as races(not that they have a history of doing that in the first place) that they'll have more time and resources to make the romances more indepth over all.

 

Though I can't imagine there's that much dialogue that would need reworking.

[Darth Krytie]

The only way in which DAI's set sexualities approach could be less inclusive - in the sense of the term being used now, which I'm not sure is technically accurate - is if there are fewer options per gender available compared to DA2.

 

Which means less than 4 options for men and 4 options for women, regardless of the protagonist's orientation. We do not know if this is the case.

 

It's a fair enough reason to hold off on any further judgement until more information is known. Which I'm willing to do.

[Mockingword]

I think the general implication is that because they don't have to record two sets of dialogue to cover all the he's and she's, or customize a romance scene to account for the different body types between genders as well as races(not that they have a history of doing that in the first place) that they'll have more time and resources to make the romances more indepth over all.

 

Though I can't imagine there's that much dialogue that would need reworking.

Mass Effect 1 and 2 didn't have any M/M relationships, but they had the male voice actors do the lines over for men anyway.

[Blackrising]

I think the general implication is that because they don't have to record two sets of dialogue to cover all the he's and she's, or customize a romance scene to account for the different body types between genders as well as races(not that they have a history of doing that in the first place) that they'll have more time and resources to make the romances more indepth over all.

 

Though I can't imagine there's that much dialogue that would need reworking.

 

Not to mention that those extra resources would probably go into adding two additional romances, which wouldn't have been needed for 4 bisexual romances.

[Jigglypuff]

I hope at least one of the hot guys is gay, this kinda sucks we were stuck with Zevran as a male li. I will miss being able to romance anyone.

[Maria Caliban]

May I ask where people are getting the idea that there are 6 love interests total?

It's possible only Cullen and Cassandra are available for romance.

[Mes]

I hope at least one of the hot guys is gay, this kinda sucks we were stuck with Zevran as a male li. I will miss being able to romance anyone.

 

Ha! Yeah I thought Zevran was... well... I didn't think his face matched his attractive voice and personality. I did find a pretty good mod for it though, once I got DAO for my PC. Odd that they didn't just make him attractive from the beginning... But there are people who think vanilla Zevran is attractive. Anyway. I'm rambling.

[jellobell]

What sort of things did you like best about his romance? I've only begun one with him once, but them stopped right before it was "locked" in because it felt so friggin' awkward! Like the game was trying to convince you not to romance him! I am definitely going to give him another shot if I replay ME again though.

 

Heh, I swear I've written essays about this. Somewhere. Probably back on the old boards. Basically, I liked Garrus waaay back in the beginning when he wasn't an LI. I found his desire to do good and make a difference very endearing. In ME1 we got a whole game's worth of character development when he and Shepard were just getting to know each other, going from two unfamiliar people to friends (with Shep playing a bit of a mentoring role to an often overeager Garrus). Then you had Shepard's "death" which hit all of your companions hard, including Garrus. He went through a lot of changes, becoming a character with some experience under his belt to counteract his wide-eyed idealism. In ME2 the dynamic between him and Shepard became more equal, a "you've got my back and I've got yours" battle buddies kind of thing. On a ship full of sketchy characters, Garrus was one of the few explicitly trustworthy and familiar faces. And it's at that time that you can express an interest in him romantically (though couched as more of a "let's blow off some steam because we could die tomorrow and I trust you more than anyone else in the galaxy" kind of relationship). In ME3 Shepard and Garrus become much more comfortable with each other, continuing what they started in ME2. It's a lovely slow-burn kind of romance, one that doesn't rely on cheap angst or drama to create excitement. It's the story of two people going through hell together, and in the process finding someone that they can always rely on. It's passionate when it needs to be, but it's predominantly about trust, and slowly coming to love another person as they come to love you in return. I think that's rather profoundly beautiful. 

[Darth Krytie]

May I ask where people are getting the idea that there are 6 love interests total?

It's possible only Cullen and Cassandra are available for romance.

 

People are assuming that there's going to be a fair split: 2 het/2 bi/2 gay amongst the romances as David Gaider has stated previously he'd only consider abandoning the all bi thing if he could do that instead. (paraphrasing him, don't consider this me quoting him verbatim)

[Hellion Rex]

May I ask where people are getting the idea that there are 6 love interests total?

It's possible only Cullen and Cassandra are available for romance.

The assumption with the "set sexualities" is a 2/2/2 split, 2 straight, 2 bi, and 2 gay. Idk if that's how it's gonna shake out though.

[Mes]

Heh, I swear I've written essays about this. Somewhere. Probably back on the old boards. Basically, I liked Garrus waaay back in the beginning when he wasn't an LI. I found his desire to do good and make a difference very endearing. In ME1 we got a whole game's worth of character development when he and Shepard were just getting to know each other, going from two unfamiliar people to friends (with Shep playing a bit of a mentoring role to an often overeager Garrus). Then you had Shepard's "death" which hit all of your companions hard, including Garrus. He went through a lot of changes, becoming a character with some experience under his belt to counteract his wide-eyed idealism. In ME2 the dynamic between him and Shepard became more equal, a "you've got my back and I've got yours" battle buddies kind of thing. On a ship full of sketchy characters, Garrus was one of the few explicitly trustworthy and familiar faces. And it's at that time that you can express an interest in him romantically (though couched as more of a "let's blow off some steam because we could die tomorrow and I trust you more than anyone else in the galaxy" kind of relationship). In ME3 Shepard and Garrus become much more comfortable with each other, continuing what they started in ME2. It's a lovely slow-burn kind of romance, one that doesn't rely on cheap angst or drama to create excitement. It's the story of two people going through hell together, and in the process finding someone that they can always rely on. It's passionate when it needs to be, but it's predominantly about trust, and slowly coming to love another person as they come to love you in return. I think that's rather profoundly beautiful. 

 

Wow. 

 

I want an Inquisition romance like that.

[Former_Fiend]

May I ask where people are getting the idea that there are 6 love interests total?

It's possible only Cullen and Cassandra are available for romance.

 

My mindset is that Bioware is going to be doing things bigger than they've done before.

 

Might not work out that way. You may be right and Cullen and Cassandra will be the only two, though I highly doubt that, given that Cullen is almost assuredly going to be an npc.

[Allan Schumacher]

In part, because I really don't think BioWare's given good representation in past games. It wasn't until ME3 that we saw a set gay character, and even then it was only one, and lesbian options in BioWare games have always been with a bi-sexual companion (I'm not counting DA2 here, since that was player sexual), which has always felt to me less about representation and more about male fantasy (guys playing a guy character can hook up with them, but also lesbians are hot so we'll allow that as well).

 

Fair enough.

 

 

It's also always felt like there's less choices with set sexuality with companions. Or not even felt; there is less choice. Want to play a lesbian Shepard but don't like Liara? Tough luck. Want a gay Warden but don't like Zevran? Well he's all you're getting.

 

This sentiment has been shared by several others too, and it's fair especially since DAO and ME series were hardly home runs for this type of content.

 

 

So just so I'm clear, the frustration about lack of universally available romantic interests is that it's a fear that what we offer will be like the other stuff we offered in the past, which just wasn't enough choice nor satisfactory representation for you?

[Sifr]

Fair enough and apologies if I seem snarky.  I've been in this thread a long time and a lot of it was suboptimal in its pleasantness.  A case of "using the words that people that are more hateful often use" and the difficulties it comes in disassociating said words.

 

Your snark is always welcome if it helps keep us lot in line!

 

 

And I'm starting to wonder if the unofficial rule three here along with the other two is "The fans are never happy about anything. Ever". Remember when everyone voted for a Blonde!Shep and then we immediately wanted a do-over? We really shouldn't frustrate the devs so much, they're trying dangsarnit!

[tmp7704]

Hah, topic gained 30 pages since I last looked a few hours ago. Hot issue indeed =)
 

I understand what you are saying, but lets say we take a person that is homosexual and would respond a particular way to another man.  If we then make that person not a homosexual, would it be fair to say that they would respond to an equivalent woman without the influence of any societal expectations?
 
 
I can agree that it's trivial that if I were gay, I wouldn't see a woman the same way than if I were heterosexual and attracted to her.  Barring the sex of who receives my affection, why would I behave any differently if my experiences in life were not different up until that point?*

I'm not sure if i'm reading that right. Do you mean the behavior of a gay person could be affected by social heterosexual norms/expectations, making that person act not really different from a heterosexual person towards men/women? Especially if they were hiding their orientation due to fear of backlash, I suppose? If so then I agree, there can definitely be extra layer like that affecting our behaviors and muddling the waters, so to speak.

I think though even with such layers the (true) orientation can still affect person's behavior on subconscious level -- specifically, it's pretty normal to be more accommodating of people we like, and acting harsher towards these we don't like. Thus, I believe depending on person's sexual orientation they may be acting friendly towards people of one gender, than towards these of the other (especially these perceived as /really/ attractive, or rivals) And then when you interact with such person, then *depending on your own gender* you may perceive their personality differently, due to how they would treat you. I.e. if the person is, for example, acting friendlier towards women, then if you happen to be a woman you may get impression their personality is friendly(/-lier) than you would if you were a man.

Hope that makes sense...

[wright1978]

Well they did talk about romances (or the characters) being more fleshed out because of this. I guess all we can do is wait and see if the tradeoff was worth it.

 

I assume they are referencing the characters being more fleshed out(defined) because of this.

I don't think that means romance content will of same quality, the likely trade off is the romance content being spread even less thinly than before (like the same amount of butter being spread over even more toast) because i can't see them abandoning the notion of inclusiveness. But i'll wait and see for more details about how debilitating the trade off is going to be.

[Maria Caliban]

People are assuming that there's going to be a fair split: 2 het/2 bi/2 gay amongst the romances as David Gaider has stated previously he'd only consider abandoning the all bi thing if he could do that instead. (paraphrasing him, don't consider this me quoting him verbatim)

Cullen and Cassandra both being clear about their bisexuality would both meet the conditions of the original article and David's comment.

Personally, the last time BioWare had a game with more than four love interests, I thought the companion content/romances suffered.

[upsettingshorts]

People are assuming that there's going to be a fair split: 2 het/2 bi/2 gay amongst the romances as David Gaider has stated previously he'd only consider abandoning the all bi thing if he could do that instead. (paraphrasing him, don't consider this me quoting him verbatim)

Operating on that assumption, which again is just an assumption, protagonists would have 4 options regardless of gender:

1 of the straight characters

2 of the bi characters

1 of the gay/lesbian characters

= 2 men and 2 women per protagonist, exactly as many as DA2 (Sebastian notwithstanding)

 

That is of course making the further assumption of an equal number of male and female romance options, something Dragon Age has consistently provided (again, Sebastian notwithstanding). So given those assumptions DAI's "set sexualities" could not be reasonably described as less inclusive, in the sense of the term used above. It would be equally inclusive, with the further inclusion of two additional characters who don't want to bang you the protagonist.

[Direwolf0294]

So just so I'm clear, the frustration about lack of universally available romantic interests is that it's a fear that what we offer will be like the other stuff we offered in the past, which just wasn't enough choice nor satisfactory representation for you?

Pretty much. I mean, I'll fully acknowledge that this game could be different, but past experiences are stopping my expectations and hopes from getting too high.

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm not sure if i'm reading that right. Do you mean the behavior of a gay person could be affected by social heterosexual norms/expectations, making that person act not really different from a heterosexual person? Especially if they were hiding their orientation due to fear of backlash, I suppose? If so then I agree, there can definitely be extra layer like that affecting our behaviors and muddling the waters, so to speak.

I think though even with such layers the (true) orientation can still affect person's behavior on subconscious level -- specifically, it's pretty normal to be more accommodating of people we like, and acting harsher towards these we don't like. Thus, I believe depending on person's sexual orientation they may be acting friendly towards people of one gender, than towards these of the other (especially these perceived as /really/ attractive, or rivals) And then when you interact with such person, then *depending on your own gender* you may perceive their personality differently, due to how they would treat you. I.e. if the person is, for example, acting friendlier towards women, then if you happen to be a woman you may get impression their personality is friendly(/-lier) than you would if you were a man.

 

More wider scale behaviours/personality.

 

I can concede that a person not attracted to a woman may not behave the same way towards a woman that I am attracted to.  But is that really a "personality difference?"  In the lines of, will someone's sexuality make someone innately more aggressive, more passive, argumentative, demure, seductive, and so forth.

 

 

The reason why I stress "innately" is I will wholeheartedly agree that people will tend to behave a certain way to do pervasive socialization aspects that come around as a result of someone's sexuality.

 

It can be hard to disassociate innate traits from those that are learned via socialization.  I may be idealizing things, but I think at the moment I have the idea that the personality traits a person develops, on a macro level, is relatively unaffected by their sexual orientation.  In that, sure, I'll be more tolerant to people that I like, and if I have a crush on a woman I'll probably give her more leeway than a neutral person.  But I'm not sure if I'd behave any differently if I were gay and the person I liked were a man.  At least on any innate level due to my sexuality.

[Darth Krytie]

Operating on that assumption, which again is just an assumption, protagonists would have 4 options regardless of gender:

1 of the straight characters

2 of the bi characters

1 of the gay/lesbian characters

 

That is of course making the further assumption of an equal number of male and female romance options, something Dragon Age has consistently provided (Sebastian notwithstanding). So given those assumptions DAI's "set sexualities" could not be reasonably described as less inclusive. It would be equally inclusive, with the additional inclusion of two further characters who don't want to bang you the protagonist.

 

Exactly so. And removing ambiguity will prevent years long arguments over the topic. People can then go on to more sensible arguments like: why isn't X character romanceable?

[Wulfram]

If it turns out that Cassandra is straight-laced and straight, Sera is the adventurous bisexual rogue and Scribe Girl is Samantha, I will raise an eyebrow at you, Bioware.

[Allan Schumacher]

Pretty much. I mean, I'll fully acknowledge that this game could be different, but past experiences are stopping my expectations and hopes from getting too high.

 

Understandable.  Hopefully you're able to see stuff that helps counter this.  Thanks for taking the time to explain.

 

 

Cheers.

[Former_Fiend]

Cullen and Cassandra both being clear about their bisexuality would both meet the conditions of the original article and David's comment.

Personally, the last time BioWare had a game with more than four love interests, I thought the companion content/romances suffered.

 

Speaking as someone who is literally only interested in romancing Cassandra at this point, I think this is a horrible idea. Limiting it to four LI's at least gives us some options. Two? Cass/Cullen or nothing.