1323 réponses à ce sujet

[TKavatar]

I can tolerate minor differences, but yes, I am opposed. It also doesn't help that much of the "gender-specific" content for DA:O came in the form of the female characters having to put up with sexist insults and sleazy come-ons.
 
I don't like your example at all, and I would definitely be opposed to it. Why does the female character have to be a Chantry Sister? There are female merchants. Also, Sebastian was a lay brother of the Chantry, or whatever they call it.

Are you opposed to race segregation as well, or is that cool because it's all fictional?

[GreyLycanTrope]

Am I supposed to pondering the deep philosophical implications of Hulu's content only being available within the United States?

Apologies I wasn't aware it was blocked internationally. It's Andrew Sullivan's latest interview with Colbert, makes some points about how alienating everyone who you disagree with might not be the best way to get what you want. I suggest Googling it or a transcript.

[Mockingword]

Are you opposed to race segregation as well, or is that cool because it's all fictional?

I don't know what you mean? I'm talking specifically about being excluded from content. Quests and such.

 

No, I don't think elves, dwarves or Qunari should be excluded from content either. I don't like any of the racism that is prevalent in Thedas, but it doesn't negatively affect any real-life elves.

[Kidd]

Are you opposed to race segregation as well, or is that cool because it's all fictional?

The fact it is fictional makes it a very different beast, indeed. There is an article on TheMarySue that touches upon this when discussing the Hey Sweetheart scenario. Great article, really.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I don't know what you mean? I'm talking specifically about being excluded from content. Quests and such.

 

No, I don't think elves, dwarves or Qunari should be excluded from content either. I don't like any of the racism that is prevalent in Thedas, but it doesn't negatively affect any real-life elves.

 

How did you get past the Origin stories in DA:O?

 

Anyways, my own opinion on the matter is that I'm all for exclusive content based on gender, race, etc. I like the idea that a roleplaying game allows you to roleplay and is capable of giving you a unique experience content wise based on the choices you make, not just in cutscenes, but at character creation and choices made in general gameplay. The idea is that everything is interconnected between gameplay and story content because it gives you the most immersive (yeah, nebulous term) roleplaying experience.

 

I don't see how it's inherently discriminatory. That all depends on the actual content.

 

Games like Arcanum led the way for this kind of thinking, and I'd like to think there are more games out there that would take it on board. But your opinion is different so that's that, I suppose.

[upsettingshorts]

I can only speak for myself, but Mockingword didn't "alienate" me. Given what he thought I meant, he had every right to confront me about it. I'm not sure what else I have to add to this discussion other than to deflect some of these tone arguments, but I can keep doing it if necessary.

[Kidd]

We're heading off-topic too, I'd reckon.

[Mockingword]

Because it's just an example. And news flash, Chantry Sisters are above most of the men in Thedas. Calm down. 

I'm perfectly calm. I've been calm all this time. Instead of stepping in with implications of loss of temper in order to try and discredit me, why don't you mind your own business?

 

You're not helping this other poster in the least. He or she was using that example to bolster their own argument. You've just torn it down and told me I shouldn't take it seriously. You haven't undermined my position, you've undermined the position of the person you leapt in to defend.

 

I don't see what rank has to do with it. If the way is barred to low-ranking clergy, but not to random travelling merchants, then that just raises further questions.

 

But I'd be opposed anyway, because I think people should be allowed to dress their characters in drag if they want to.

[Br3admax]

I'm perfectly calm. I've been calm all this time. Instead of stepping in with implications of loss of temper in order to try and discredit me, why don't you mind your own business?

 

I'm not implying anything. You began acting like my friend had some niche he thought women belonged in and then implied that this niche you made on your own was somehow lesser to selling shoes.

 

 

 

You're not helping this other poster in the least. He or she was using that example to bolster their own argument. You've just torn it down and told me I shouldn't take it seriously. You haven't undermined my position, you've undermined the position of the person you leapt in to defend.

 

You don't have a position because you made up an argument that was hardly counter to what's said. Crusty doesn't need my help because you hardly posted anything in counter to him. That example was perfectly valid. This is a roleplaying game, Plantiff. As in we play roles. He gave an example nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't need a defence for a perfectly legitimate role that comes with influence.

 

I don't see what rank has to do with it. If the way is barred to low-ranking clergy, but not to random travelling merchants, then that just raises further questions. 

 

 

What? He gave a high ranking role because that would actually matter. The guy who sells me food is hardly as influential as a Chantry Sister, which was the point.

 

But I'd be opposed anyway, because I think people should be allowed to dress their characters in drag if they want to.

 

 

That was not the point at all, And a man dressing as a woman is cool, do whatever floats your boat. 

[TKavatar]

The fact it is fictional makes it a very different beast, indeed. There is an article on TheMarySue that touches upon this when discussing the Hey Sweetheart scenario. Great article, really.

I have to disagree. Racism is racism, it doesn't matter whether you're a fictional elf in a city full of racist humans or a brown person living in a predominantly racist white community.

[Mockingword]

How did you get past the Origin stories in DA:O?

 

Anyways, my own opinion on the matter is that I'm all for exclusive content based on gender, race, etc. I like the idea that a roleplaying game allows you to roleplay and is capable of giving you a unique experience content wise based on the choices you make, not just in cutscenes, but at character creation and choices made in general gameplay. The idea is that everything is interconnected between gameplay and story content because it gives you the most immersive (yeah, nebulous term) roleplaying experience.

 

I don't see how it's inherently discriminatory. That all depends on the actual content.

 

Games like Arcanum led the way for this kind of thinking, and I'd like to think there are more games out there that would take it on board. But your opinion is different so that's that, I suppose.

Well, I only ever played Human Noble. I gave Circle Mage and Dalish Elf a try, but they just didn't interest me.

 

I guess that didn't really bother me, but the Origins also have very little visible impact on the rest of the game.

 

Like I said, I'm willing to tolerate a few differing lines of dialogue here and there, or if the player has to take an alternate route to access the content, that's also acceptable. I don't want to be told that the only way to get around a particular obstacle is to just restart the game and build my character again from scratch.

 

I mean, all concerns about real-life discrimination aside, I'm not inclined to replay an entire game just for a small amount of content.

[Lebanese Dude]

This thread is a hot mess.

*puts on moderator hat*

Playersexuality wasn't bullshit. Even split isn't bullshit.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages, which we should feel free to discuss without someone telling us to shutup about it.

If you have nothing constructive or speculative to contribute, leave the thread.

[AresKeith]

That's the logical conclusion i come to too. Really hope it turns out not to be the case though.

But it's really an unfair comparison

[Mathias]

Good! Stop trying to pander to everybody. Those of you who are calling Bioware ignorant for this should be ashamed. Their priority is creating a great game first, not creating a Waifu simulator that meets your sexual desires. 

[Star fury]

Are you suggesting you'd like to see the game delayed another year?

If this delay would make the game better, yes, yes and yes.

[Rawgrim]

If you're not fond of JRPGs you're pretty much fucked. I'm not exactly thrilled by the anime style and overall cheesiness (speaking loosely here).

 

I can think of:

-TES (bland writing, makes me comatose)

-Dragon Age (good)

-Mass Effect (liked the first one, the sequels gave me several ulcers)

-Fallout

-Oldish games like Arcanum/Baldur's Gate/Kotor

-most MMO (not for me)

-Kingdoms of Amalur (meh)

-Fable (see above)

-Saints Row (liked SR2, was let down by the sequels)

 

Good story + chance of gender customization -> doesn't happen often.

 

 

Drakensang 1-2

 

Neverwinter Nights 1-2

 

Ultima 1-7. U7 (I think) was the first game to let the player play as a gay character, actually.

 

Dragon`s Dogma

 

5 Elder Scrolls games.

[Redbelle]

Well, I'm glad to hear that NPC's will have an established identity when it comes to their portrayel as a sexual being. DA2's take on all character's must be available felt a little bit meta gamey. That being that, in order to progress, you don't have to hit certain criteria. And in a BW game the criteria comes about from the choices you as  gamer, makes right from the start of character creation, through into the game content.

 

Player identity of their created character can be bolstered or harmed by NPC's who don't have strong identities of their own. If BW are sitting down to hammer out who these character's are, then that can only be a good thing on the player immersion front. We'll have to play to find out what motivates these characters. Not go in knowing they can all be bedded if you choose the saucy dialogue for some and not others.

[Lebanese Dude]

Good! Stop trying to pander to everybody. Those of you who are calling Bioware ignorant for this should be ashamed. Their priority is creating a great game first, not creating a Waifu simulator that meets your sexual desires.

Romantic relationships are part of the gameplay experience offered by Dragon Age, and are in no way inferior to killing and looting. Given that companion relationships are a major selling point in Bioware games, this is a priority whether you like it or not.

[Mockingword]

I'm not implying anything. You began acting like my friend had some niche he thought women belonged in and then implied that this niche you made on your own was somehow lesser to selling shoes.

You don't have a position because you made up an argument that was hardly counter to what's said. Crusty doesn't need my help because you hardly posted anything in counter to him. That example was perfectly valid. This is a roleplaying game, Plantiff. As in we play roles. He gave an example nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't need a defence for a perfectly legitimate role that comes with influence.

What? He gave a high ranking role because that would actually matter. The guy who sells me food is hardly as influential as a Chantry Sister, which was the point.

 

That was not the point at all, And a man dressing as a woman is cool, do whatever floats your boat. 

I was just asking questions. But now that you've gone ahead and named your friend, I wouldn't put such beliefs past him, given previous behaviour.

 

But you misunderstood me.

 

Men can't achieve the higher ranks of the clergy, so they won't be let past the gate, right? That seems like what you're saying. The female character can pass as a high rank (let's say Revered Mother), so she can get past, but the man cannot, because he's only a lay brother.

 

But the travelling merchant/juggler or whatever has no rank in the Chantry at all. He's one step up from a peasant. So why would he be let in?

[AresKeith]

Stupid question: Is there a possibility to have 4 female, 4 male LI?

It's possible, but it's kinda pushing it

[Mathias]

Romantic relationships are part of the gameplay experience offered by Dragon Age, and are in no way inferior to killing and looting. Given that companion relationships are a major selling point in Bioware games, this is a priority whether you like it or not.

 

They've already said that while they know romance is important to "some" players, it's still a back thought. They take priority first on the gameplay, story and visuals. Things like Graphics, Story, Combat and Customization come before giving you a Husbando.

[javeart]

Ain't it fun though seing now so many people defending that BW's artístic integrity should not be compromised to make fans happier?

[Mister Gusty]

Am I supposed to pondering the deep philosophical implications of Hulu's content only being available within the United States?

 

This link should work, the segment starts at 4:30, the guest speaker Andrew Sullivan comes in at around the 7:30 mark and talks for about four minutes.

[Rawgrim]

Romances are optional, though. But they do serve as a nice icing on the whole cake.

[Mockingword]

Ain't it fun though seing now so many people defending that BW's artístic integrity should not be compromised to make fans happier?

I've seen many of those same people turn around and accuse Bioware of pandering to the "social justice warriors" when they expressed a desire to put more diversity in their own games.

 

So I'm not in the least convinced that it's "artistic integrity" that is being protected here.