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[Mindlog]

Were you wrong about balance changes?

Did any changes surprise you?

More of the same for ME4?

Your general thoughts.

 

Looking back how do you feel ME3 MP handled the big balance issues? At certain points my own dissatisfaction led to some colorful posts. I never got the Typhoon before it was re-balanced. In truth my biggest complaint with that one was never getting to try it. Took me forever to unlock that weapon. It's still good, but I'll never know how good it used to be. My loudest complaints were about the cloak change. I wanted so many other changes instead of the complete hammering base duration took.

 

I was really wrong about that one.

 

Adjusting cloak was completely necessary. The power simply had and still has too much utility. I'm thankful that others fought for those changes and the developers took that feedback to heart. It was the best that could be done in those circumstances.

 

The most surprising change?

EASY

The Piranha buff. Who saw that one coming?

 

I'm certain there are still dozens of balance changes some of us would like to see that would drive others crazy. I would hit a pair of Cerberus weapons with an adjustment even though I used them very frequently.

 

In concert with communication (dev blogs and forums) I really like what balance changes bring to the table. Even superficial changes help stimulate the user base. How many times did you rush to try out a weapon just because it was on the list? These changes go a long way in tweaking strategy and keeping the game fresh months or years after release.

 

What prompted this was reading another gaming outlet. I found a comment that went something along the lines of, 'Those guys nerfed everything and ruined the game.' It made me chuckle. To me that couldn't be further from the truth. I don't envy the developers that have to face these massive discrepancies in feedback from disparate player groups that probably also disagree with internal telemetry. It's really rare to get everything perfect, but the continuous effort to make it better is greatly appreciated.

 

How do balance changes influence your strategy? Were regular balance changes and the associated communication an important part of ME3 MP's success to you?

[Dunvi]

I suppose this is a reminder that I never really did finish that numerical analysis of the balance changes.

 

For the most part? They hugely overbuffed a lot of things, didn't nerf nearly enough, and over all tried very hard to do well for a game that they obviously cared quite a bit about, despite all our complaints.

[coldflame]

The problem I had was that Bioware admitted that all the balance changes were tested using Silver games as standards. In other words if a power was deemed too powerful by the dev for silver but was actually just right for gold or platinum they would still nerf it.

 

I am too lazy to link that post from dev now...

[Dunvi]

The problem I had was that Bioware admitted that all the balance changes were tested using Silver games as standards. In other words if a power was deemed too powerful by the dev for silver but was actually just right for gold or platinum they would still nerf it.

 

I am too lazy to link that post from dev now...

I know they said this as well. I will ask you, what's wrong with that? So they considered the difficulties to essentially be: easy, normal, hard, insane. What's wrong with that?

[Malanek]

Overall very good. There were some things like grenades where they were buffed a lot but then later became quite degenerate with grenade capacity and six thermal clip packs. Stasis went the other way, originally overpowered so it received a couple of nerfs, but new content (dragoons and bombers) meant the original form would no longer have been broken at all.

 

There were some odd ones (Vidicator and carnfix nerfs), some things that didn't go far enough (like some assault rifle buffs), and some things that went too far (Krysae).

 

However I loved the game. Overall I spent more than 1000 hours playing it and will probably play a little bit more at some stage and I think it was much, much better than at launch.

 

I suspect they learnt a lot from the whole exercise which should make me4 even better.

 

 

Edit - To me the game feels most well balanced around gold. On Platinum quite a few weapons don't really hit hard enough. Pretty much everything is fairly usable on gold though while most things die if you breath on them in silver.

[coldflame]

I know they said this as well. I will ask you, what's wrong with that? So they considered the difficulties to essentially be: easy, normal, hard, insane. What's wrong with that?

Guess I am still a bit bitter about they debuffed the cooldown on smash...

 

Also, I am pretty sure all the pugs out there think it is more like... super easy, easy, normal, hard...

[TheShadyEngineer]

I'm with Dunvi on this one, balance changes made sense for the most part. I think the devs didn't nerf as much as they buffed because whenever they did nerf something, the collective bitching of BSN would crash the servers. 

 

For the most surprising balance change I'd have to go with either the buff to the 6a evo of Biotic Charge or the huge buff the Slayer's phase disruptor got. Never saw either of those coming and both were pleasant surprises.

 

I'm a bit salty about not experiencing the Falcon and Krysae before they were nerfed though...

[Dunvi]

Guess I am still a bit bitter about they debuffed the cooldown on smash...

 

Also, I am pretty sure all the pugs out there think it is more like... super easy, easy, normal, hard...

I think that one was plenty needed.

 

And going by playerbase distributions, it is likely the pugs consider it exactly as I said the devs do - easy, normal, hard, insanity. We are biased by our echo chamber of quality players. The people on the BSN i happily would and have called scrubs in the day are still miles better than your average player who is surprisingly happy to extract on silver. Maybe the numbers have shifted from a year ago. I doubt it, though, just from being aware of what these kinds of numbers normally look like.

[Terca]

Wait, are you saying there was a time during which the Falcon was not a lolgun not for use outside of bronze?!

[Dunvi]

Wait, are you saying there was a time during which the Falcon was not a lolgun not for use outside of bronze?!

 

Yes

[Excella Gionne]

Shield Boost was unforeseen. Didn't they say Defense Matrix would be OP because you could restore your shields/barriers at will? 

[Dunvi]

Shield Boost was unforeseen. Didn't they say Defense Matrix would be OP because you could restore your shields/barriers at will? 

 

The devs acknowledged that, by the time of the last DLC, they were willing to try things that were both more out there, and more powerful, than they were ever willing to in the base game. Keep in mind that in the base game, pull was considered plenty powerful (and considering the enemy distribution of SP, they were not wrong) - by the end of the game's lifespan, the devs said themselves that it had suffered. Their idea of acceptable power level rose with every DLC.

[Peer of the Empire]

Falcon was boring and broke the game.  Even if it did buff at the time weak classes

 

Biotics and infils were way too strong at the beginning.  Corporate didn't have confidence in the MP at first, which is understandable, but they sacrificed the best part of a being a shooter and that is the actual shooting, blowing **** up with grenades and hitting people

 

They waited too long to buff Krogans.  The originals were stunlocked by the geth like other classes except without dodge.

 

It would be six months after I quit before Inferno Grenades were usable.  Believe it or not, they used to be the worst grenade

[Dunvi]

Falcon was boring and broke the game.  Even if it did buff at the time weak classes

 

They waited too long to buff Krogans.  It would be six months after I quit before Inferno Grenades were usable.  Believe it or not, they used to suck

 

They never sucked. The fanbase was unaware of how ****** broken they were from the start. A handful of perceptive players were using inferno nade classes to wreck from the start.

[Peer of the Empire]

They never sucked. The fanbase was unaware of how ****** broken they were from the start. A handful of perceptive players were using inferno nade classes to wreck from the start.

 

EDIT: Not talking about lolsilver you scrubs.  LOL!!  And if you weren't bad you could melee everything on silver faster than those weak wastes of grenades.  end EDIT

 

You obviously did not play at beginning.  They did not compare whatsoever to biotic and infil killing speed and were a joke even to other grenades

 

They were a dot which allowed no Fire explosions and did only 2/3rd the damage they do now, and do damage which is halved against shields and barriers.

 

When we saw armor, we thought: Biotics.  Biotic splosions had no cooldown then.  That means, after 8 seconds, someone else's brute is long dead, which of course is easily the case even now.  A train of mooks have their heads popped.  Someone else's direct damage grenades combined with powerful infil shots and biotics have exploded everything while your weak dot ticks down on shields, with no Acolyte and no Reegar

 

Even on health, meleeing everything is faster, which is the case even now, on Platinum, with buffed grenades.

 

They sucked until Tech combos were allowed on non deaths.  They sucked for half of the game's supported life.  A simple adding in of Fire Explosions made all the difference.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Hmm, afraid I can't really offer an opinion since I didn't start playing until after the end of balance changes. I will say that reading the forums back when they were going on was amusing, but due to my crappy connection, it wasn't something that I could do often.

I always thought they should have knocked a tenth of a second or so off the burst delay on the Argus, but that's a discussion for another thread.

[cato potato]

Wait, are you saying there was a time during which the Falcon was not a lolgun not for use outside of bronze?!

Yes, that time is always.

OT - I really liked balance changes, whether they involved buffs or nerfs. They kept things interesting and made me try setups I otherwise might not have even considered, I only wish they had continued for a lot longer.

The Vindicator nerf was the strangest to me. It was never OP, even if the devs balanced around Silver.

[coldflame]

I think that one was plenty needed.

 

And going by playerbase distributions, it is likely the pugs consider it exactly as I said the devs do - easy, normal, hard, insanity. We are biased by our echo chamber of quality players. The people on the BSN i happily would and have called scrubs in the day are still miles better than your average player who is surprisingly happy to extract on silver. Maybe the numbers have shifted from a year ago. I doubt it, though, just from being aware of what these kinds of numbers normally look like.

 

Guess that's where our opinions differ.

 

As for that level of difficulty comment, it was a joke. Just making fun at how many N7 20, Challenge point 20 with Predator I showing up at a gold or platinum lobby with no consumables and gears and readied up...

[Argent Xero]

Wasn't here for any of them.

[millahnna]

 

You obviously did not play at beginning.  They did not compare whatsoever to biotic and infil killing speed and were a joke even to other grenades

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  Ahem. 

[bondiboy]

The tears were flowing heavily on the forums everytime there was a nerf . A lot of debate about why balance changes were important but many just refused to see the bigger picture .

 

I actually thought most if not all the nerfs were fair calls although I was a little disappointed when they nerfed the pets.

[millahnna]

I was a little disappointed when they nerfed the AIU's melee; her other nerfs made sense but her melee didn't seem overpowered prior to that.  It still rocks, though, so I guess it's no big deal. Some of the stuff they did near the end I thought was really interesting; it got me to break out of my then very limited comfort zone a bit and is probably why I ever got decent at this game to begin with. 

 

A lot of the nerfs and buffs that really had people riled up I didn't get to experience (as in hadn't unlocked various weapons and kits and/or still sucked so bad they weren't weapons or kits I even dared to try).  So even though I was here for all of it, I didn't really get it.  I still smile at the nerd rage over the krysae nerf, though.  It made for funny videos pre-nerf but it was a little ridiculous. 

 

I truley hated the forums on balance change days, though.  The "nerfers" vs. "carebears" BS was some of the most juvenile crap I've seen. And I play on ecks bawks so that's saying something.

[PresidentVorchaMasterBaits]

i remember first getting the falcon and taking it into a game. i thought, 'ok this gun is kinda cool. might stick with it for a while.' then later on i take it again and i start firing the thing..........i was confused. i thought there was some kind of glitch at first. it was firing slower and thought to myself, 'what the hell? this gun sucks now.' that's when i started lurking on bsn and found out about balance changes. same thing happened with tactical cloak. didn't find out until playing an infiltrator to know something was different.