282 réponses à ce sujet

[OniGanon]

Overall I would say the balance changes were almost entirely positive (or at least not negative) for the game.

 

There are a few changes that were strange or just plain bad decisions, like the Vindicator nerf or the last few buffs to the Talon and Hurricane.

 

But for the most part, they were either good changes or ineffectual.

 

If there was anything that really disappointed me, it wasn't actually any particular balance change but rather that BioWare seemed to never learn that players are a bunch of whiny crybabies who will ABSOLUTELY throw a hissy fit over ANY nerf, no matter how BLATANTLY JUSTIFIED. That you can actually lose players over it. And that it is therefore better to be conservative with the power of new weapons and then buff them later, rather than release something horribly overpowered and then nerf it.

 

Also the Sabotage nerfs. Seriously, what the hell.

[Deerber]

Nice thread! Will post my throughts when I have more time

[MstrJedi Kyle]

I feel they did a pretty good job with them. I do wish they toned down the Geth a bit though. I'm pretty sure they said they wanted to but they did. I do feel bad for the Krysae though. The initial nerf was needed but then they just kept beating it with the nerf bat, like it was an unwanted step child or something.

[megabeast37215]

Overall.. I thought they did a good job. I wish the Krysae could have been saved.. but it was just so damn broken.

There were some questionable buffs.. and some more needed nerfs (Hurricane) before they stopped.. but they left the game in a relatively balanced state overall.. well.. compared to what it was anyway.

[Chealec]

You obviously did not play at beginning.  They did not compare whatsoever to biotic and infil killing speed and were a joke even to other grenades

 

They were a dot which allowed no Fire explosions and did only 2/3rd the damage they do now, and do damage which is halved against shields and barriers.

 

When we saw armor, we thought: Biotics.  Biotic splosions had no cooldown then.  That means, after 8 seconds, someone else's brute is long dead, which of course is easily the case even now.  A train of mooks have their heads popped.  Someone else's direct damage grenades combined with powerful infil shots and biotics have exploded everything while your weak dot ticks down on shields, with no Acolyte and no Reegar

 

Even on health, meleeing everything is faster, which is the case even now, on Platinum, with buffed grenades.

 

They sucked until Tech combos were allowed on non deaths.  They sucked for half of the game's supported life.  A simple adding in of Fire Explosions made all the difference.

 

Tech combos were always available without kills (after launch anyway - no idea about beta) it was only Fire and Cryo explosions that weren't.

 

... and I'm pretty sure Fire Explosions did MORE damage originally (and with a larger radius) - just that they only triggered on kills. I used to have the Kroldier down to a fine art where I'd do just enough damage after pasting incendiary ammo, or lobbing in an Inferno Grenade, that I could consistently get Fire Explosions ... and they were awesome for wiping out all the Cannibals in a spawn whilst doing substantial damage to the Brutes. They're less powerful now but easier to trigger.

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

I think I missed most of the big ones, but I would've loved to be around for the tears that flowed afterwards.

 

After using the Reegar again yesterday, I'm shocked that it wasn't nerfed into the ground. It's a shame that popularity was the main deciding factor for the changes.

[megabeast37215]

I think I missed most of the big ones, but I would've loved to be around for the tears that flowed afterwards.

After using the Reegar again yesterday, I'm shocked that it wasn't nerfed into the ground. It's a shame that popularity was the main deciding factor for the changes.

The Tac Cloak/Krysae/GI days were so heated.. it was awesome.

According to the PC clan, even a 50% damage nerf wasn't enough to balance the Reegar. Even if you took the armor penalty to 100%.. the damage from level IV ammo would've been enough to be competitive in the meta.

Some guns just need deleted.. or should have never made it off the developers idea table.

[N7 Tigger]

There were two problems with the balance changes.

 

1. Enemies were constantly buffed. Existing enemies were given more hitpoints and damage output, their attack patterns were modified, wave compositions were changed and new units were added. So, as our weapons and powers were nerfed the enemy was buffed. And when something got a much needed buff the enemy also got stronger.

 

2. A lot of the nerfs came about because of whiny little b*tched who couldn't or wouldn't use what they were complaining about but didn't like being outscored by those who did. Don't have the Typhoon yet? Boo-f*cking-hoo. Don't ruin my fun because your e-peen can't handle coming second on the scoreboard.

 

Who said everything has to be balanced? It took me 500 hours to unlock the Typhoon, longer for the Black Widow. When I spend 500 hours and a billion credits to get a gun it had f*cking well better be OP. The Typhoon on the Destroyer must have been a lot of fun but I never got to try it. Now it's a mediocre character and a mediocre gun and I never use either. Honestly I'd pick the Avenger over the Typhoon - an Ultra-Rare that took me 500 hours to get. Yeah, that's balanced.

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

The Tac Cloak/Krysae/GI days were so heated.. it was awesome.

 

Some people take things way too seriously. I mean I was one of the scrubs that benefited from the switch to a chargeless Acolyte in order to be "good", but I didn't cry about it when they switched it back. That actually forced me to learn how to play the game, and I'll be forever thankful for that.

 

Some guns just need deleted.. or should have never made it off the developers idea table.

 

Agreed. That thing is an abomination.

[Chealec]

2. A lot of the nerfs came about because of whiny little b*tched who couldn't or wouldn't use what they were complaining about but didn't like being outscored by those who did. Don't have the Typhoon yet? Boo-f*cking-hoo. Don't ruin my fun because your e-peen can't handle coming second on the scoreboard.

 

That fallacious argument used to really annoy me back in the day ... now I no longer care

 

 

 

... actually my sig came about simply because of the balance arguments on this forum (before the Eagle was repeatedly buffed of course).

[megabeast37215]

There were two problems with the balance changes.

1. Enemies were constantly buffed. Existing enemies were given more hitpoints and damage output, their attack patterns were modified, wave compositions were changed and new units were added. So, as our weapons and powers were nerfed the enemy was buffed. And when something got a much needed buff the enemy also got stronger.

2. A lot of the nerfs came about because of whiny little b*tched who couldn't or wouldn't use what they were complaining about but didn't like being outscored by those who did. Don't have the Typhoon yet? Boo-f*cking-hoo. Don't ruin my fun because your e-peen can't handle coming second on the scoreboard.

Who said everything has to be balanced? It took me 500 hours to unlock the Typhoon, longer for the Black Widow. When I spend 500 hours and a billion credits to get a gun it had f*cking well better be OP. The Typhoon on the Destroyer must have been a lot of fun but I never got to try it. Now it's a mediocre character and a mediocre gun and I never use either. Honestly I'd pick the Avenger over the Typhoon - an Ultra-Rare that took me 500 hours to get. Yeah, that's balanced.

You really think the Destroyer and the Typhoon are mediocre? Really though.. I didn't think DM needed a nerf.. I really loved my 300 round PPR.

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

1. Enemies were constantly buffed. Existing enemies were given more hitpoints and damage output, their attack patterns were modified, wave compositions were changed and new units were added. So, as our weapons and powers were nerfed the enemy was buffed. And when something got a much needed buff the enemy also got stronger.

 

Didn't we receive more buffs than nerfs? Pretty sure someone did the analysis. I'm also pretty sure they added/changed stuff that made the game a hell of a lot easier, the changes to tech explosions being one.

 

2. A lot of the nerfs came about because of whiny little b*tched who couldn't or wouldn't use what they were complaining about but didn't like being outscored by those who did. Don't have the Typhoon yet? Boo-f*cking-hoo. Don't ruin my fun because your e-peen can't handle coming second on the scoreboard.

 

That's factually incorrect. The nerfs were down to overuse by n00bs, myself included.

[megabeast37215]

The gear slot was the biggest buff the players ever got.. talk about a huge advantage. Grenade Capacity and Geth Scanner both changed the game IMO.. grenade capacity moreso.

[N7 Tigger]

...
Some guns just need deleted.. or should have never made it off the developers idea table.

 

 

The gear slot was the biggest buff the players ever got.. talk about a huge advantage. Grenade Capacity and Geth Scanner both changed the game IMO.. grenade capacity moreso.

 

If anything needed deleting it's Grenade Capacity gear. Asari Vanguard + Grenade Capacity V + 6 Thermal Clip Packs = Not much fun for the rest of the team.

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

The gear slot was the biggest buff the players ever got.. talk about a huge advantage.

 

I wasn't playing MP prior to that being introduced, and only found out that we didn't always have it until about a month ago.

[Chealec]

The gear slot was the biggest buff the players ever got.. talk about a huge advantage. Grenade Capacity and Geth Scanner both changed the game IMO.. grenade capacity moreso.

 

Yeah, nothing says overkill like giving a DrellDept 5 extra Clusterbombs... per Thermal Clip pack... and of course, 2 extra Thermal Clip packs per game.

 

 

 

... though I may be wrong but I seem to remember Thermal Clip packs didn't originally restock your grenades?

[GruntKitterhand]

My only real gripe about balance changes comes from the fact that I unlocked EDI the day after they nerfed her.  I'd been hearing how genuinely OP she was, but never got a chance to experience it.  Considering how OP she still is, she must have been downright insane.

 

I also never got to use the pre-nerf Falcon, Krysae and Typhoon, but all are very gold-capable on the right kits.  My only real annoyance at the Krysae stems from how long it takes for the reload animation to even start, but other than that it's great on the SI or GE.

 

Also, Krogan Warlord Sentinel able to be sync-killed by a Phantom?  I've never used these words myself before, but that's the most "biower pls" bonkers thing in the whole game.

 

There are PUGs out there for whom Silver is a significant jump in difficulty - "PRAETORIAN ON THE FIELD! PRAETORIAN ON THE FIELD! USING A MISSILE! GOT IT, PHEW!"  I'd still rate the levels as easy, normal, hard, insane.

 

For the next installment, I wish they would incorporate challenge completion into weapon level unlocks, with a genuine emphasis on rewarding more varied play. If players had something to gain from something other than simply using the strongest weapon, they would be less likely to use the same stuff all the time, and as a result balance changes could be  more subtle/less controversial.

[Chealec]

If anything needed deleting it's Grenade Capacity gear. Asari Vanguard + Grenade Capacity V + 6 Thermal Clip Packs = Not much fun for the rest of the team.

 

Ummm ... by your own previous argument ... YOU should be using AV + Grenade Capacity V rather than b*tching about placing second on the scoreboard to somebody who is using it? And anyone who DOES b*tch about it should use AV + Grenade Capacity V.

 

... and that was the problem - overuse and escalation - and that's what got things nerfed.

[hostaman]

I agree with most of the changes especially buffs to the Incisor and Eagle, both considered as trash when they first appeared,

but both weapons I now use a great deal. 

 

The one I really hated was the Acolyte Charge-Chargeless-Charge game.   For a very short period I loved the Acolyte, but then it went back to the bottom of the bin IMHO.

 

I know I'm going to get the usual BSN L2acolyte backlash, but personally I hate charge-up weapons, and that's it. 

[N7 Tigger]

Didn't we receive more buffs than nerfs? Pretty sure someone did the analysis. I'm also pretty sure they added/changed stuff that made the game a hell of a lot easier, the changes to tech explosions being one.

 

 

Pretty sure you're right about receiving more buffs than nerfs. They made the enemy harder but gave us better tools to fight them. That's balance. Nerfing an Ultra-Rare gun because it's powerful is just retarded.

[N7 Tigger]

Ummm ... by your own previous argument ... YOU should be using AV + Grenade Capacity V rather than b*tching about placing second on the scoreboard to somebody who is using it? And anyone who DOES b*tch about it should use AV + Grenade Capacity V.

 

... and that was the problem - overuse and escalation - and that's what got things nerfed.

 

When did I b*tch about placing second on the scoreboard? And my previous argument was that people who didn't hadn't unlocked an Ultra-Rare weapon were complaining about about being outscored by it. Don't put words in my mouth.

[Chealec]

When did I b*tch about placing second on the scoreboard? And my previous argument was that people who didn't hadn't unlocked an Ultra-Rare weapon were complaining about about being outscored by it. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

lol why not? You're putting words into the mouths of everyone who called for nerfs wayback when - by saying they were all cry-babies who were whinging about getting outscored...

 

Anyway - this is already getting a bit plus ça change plus c'est la même chose

[N7 Tigger]

You really think the Destroyer and the Typhoon are mediocre? Really though.. I didn't think DM needed a nerf.. I really loved my 300 round PPR.

 

Actually, a 'like' on a post I made in another thread just reminded me that I do use the Typhoon on the Juggy. Stagger immunity and being able to tank a lot of damage while firing uninterrupted makes it pretty decent.

[N7 Tigger]

lol why not? You're putting words into the mouths of everyone who called for nerfs wayback when - by saying they were all cry-babies who were whinging about getting outscored...

 

Anyway - this is already getting a bit plus ça change plus c'est la même chose

 

I didn't need to put word in their mouths. The constant demand to nerf everything spoke for itself.

 

Also, I don't speak Portuguese.