282 réponses à ce sujet

[nukembaby]

I think Sabotage could really have an argument to the contrary. 

Possibly, but I think people didn't really understand how good it was back then until after the nerf. It wasn't like the Krysae where you would see more than one in every single lobby.

[me0120]

Was wraith ever buffed or nerfed?

If not, was it ever the topic of such a discussio? I feel its a bit too good, like talon.

The Wraith was buffed, buffed, buffed, buffed. I was one of the only Wraith believers in the beginning because I learned reload hiding right off the bat. Everyone complained about low RoF with low damage so they buffed the damage.

[me0120]

Huh? RCing was there from the beginning, I thought (since ME2 in fact). It wasn't something they added to the game in a balance change.

*whistles*

You may find, in the same post, the part about Biotic Explosions informative.

[millahnna]

And I'll just go herp a derp over here.  lol.  I just woke up.

[Kalas747]

Lots of butthurt all around during those days and it was glorious. I still don't even know what the hell no nerfducks even means.

 

It was a play on stardusk's name originally because he was the one calling for nerfs all the time.  It was originally no nerfdusks, then the guy changed the name of his thread so it wouldn't get locked.

[NuclearTech76]

Possibly, but I think people didn't really understand how good it was back then until after the nerf. It wasn't like the Krysae where you would see more than one in every single lobby.

You only needed one FQI to turn the Geth into a curbstomping. 

[millahnna]

Nerduck and Carebear... again I say juvenile idiocy.  Read like a bunch of third graders arguing over four square rules on the playground.

[OniGanon]

Possibly, but I think people didn't really understand how good it was back then until after the nerf. It wasn't like the Krysae where you would see more than one in every single lobby.

 

If they ever did see a few in a single lobby, it would become really obvious how powerful it was since the debuff used to stack.

 

BTW if anyone is interested: Sabotage at the height of its power.

[StoxRegalia]

Nerduck and Carebear... again I say juvenile idiocy.  Read like a bunch of third graders arguing over four square rules on the playground.

That's actually the same way world governments and political parties solve their problems.

[NuclearTech76]

The current Krysae does pretty much the same damage as the original.

 

It just shoots 30% slower.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. It got 3 damage buffs, an ammo buff, and a weight reduction at lower levels (same weight at X).

 

I guess you could also say that the introduction of the HVB is a significant indirect buff to most shotguns.

 

The original Wraith was a bit on the weak side and pretty much had to be at X to be worth a damn. Now it's a lot more useable at lower levels, and IMO it's about where it should be. Maybe it's a bit too light...

Krysae Sniper Rifle

1st Nerf

- Damage reduced from [531.2-664.0] to [476.0-595.0]

2nd Nerf

- Damage decreased from [476.0-595.0] to [429.0-548.0]

- Rate of fire decreased from [50] to [35]
- Recoil Increased from [5.0] to [10.0]
- Zoom Recoil Increased from [3.0] to [5.0]
- Total ammo dropped from [9-21] to [9-18]

 

That's almost a 20% damage loss and a 30% ROF decrease along with the recoil and ammo restrictions.

[me0120]

Krysae Sniper Rifle
1st Nerf
- Damage reduced from [531.2-664.0] to [476.0-595.0]
2nd Nerf
- Damage decreased from [476.0-595.0] to [429.0-548.0]
- Rate of fire decreased from [50] to [35]
- Recoil Increased from [5.0] to [10.0]
- Zoom Recoil Increased from [3.0] to [5.0]
- Total ammo dropped from [9-21] to [9-18]

That's almost a 20% damage loss and a 30% ROF decrease along with the recoil and ammo restrictions.

And the icing on the cake was taking away shield gate negation.

[capn233]

Hmmm was the inability to get around Shield Gate not a balance change to the Krysae?  It is the only projectile gun that doesn't ignore it.

[Shampoohorn]

Lots of butthurt all around during those days and it was glorious. I still don't even know what the hell no nerfducks even means.

 

Nerfduck was what a number of dbags started calling Stardusk, who was one of the more outspoken, articulate (and occasionally annoying) proponents of the more contentious balance changes like Tactical Cloak.  It evolved into a fairly interesting example of low grade cyberbullying, and was probably one of the reasons that he took a break from the forums for a while.  From my point of view, use of the term served as a good barometer of poster intelligence, or at least understanding of game mechanics. ... I know too much about this.

 

......

 

I'm annoyed they never really buffed the Disciple.

 

Regarding the Falcon, it suffers in comparison to its pre-nerf version but is still a highly effective niche weapon.  If you never experienced the Falcon's prenerf glory and you still don't like the weapon it's because you don't understand how to use it.  In contrast, the nerfed krysae is unlikeable to everyone and like Capn said is an example of the limitation of balance changes to fix bad design.

 

The TC balancing still feels vindicating as an example of Bioware listening to well thought out arguments from BSNers.  Infiltrators are still the most powerful kits, but it brought them more in alignment with the other classes. 

 

The Charge buffs were really excellent, especially from the PoV of drellguarders who had a harder time reaching the force threshold to stagger Gold phantoms.  IIRC, this was another instance of intelligent BSNer input influencing the change.

 

Same with the tech armor buffs.  Much appreciated.

 

Yay Turian and Drell passive boosts. 

 

Grenade damage and quantity increases:  huh wut?

 

Same with the Phase Disruptor buff. 

[Dunvi]

Hmmm was the inability to get around Shield Gate not a balance change to the Krysae?  It is the only projectile gun that doesn't ignore it.

Technically it was in a patch.

[capn233]

Technically it was in a patch.

 

Yeah for a second I couldn't remember if it was a change or if it always was affected.

[N7 Tigger]

Is it that the ridiculously OP guns like the Krysae or Falcon are Gold and so everyone had them at level X?

[Dunvi]

The current Krysae does pretty much the same damage as the original.
 
It just shoots 30% slower.

 

That's almost a 20% damage loss and a 30% ROF decrease along with the recoil and ammo restrictions.

 

Not to mention that Oni misunderstood what I was saying anyway.

 

I was saying that the Krysae originally had projectile mechanics, high damage, high trigger radius, and high explosion radius (also relatively high RoF and relatively low recoil), and that this was more than too many good properties all at once.

 

I said nothing regarding what it had become.

[capn233]

Is it that the ridiculously OP guns like the Krysae or Falcon are Gold and so everyone had them at level X?

 

No it was that they did too many things well at one time.  It really wasn't the leveling.

[Dunvi]

Is it that the ridiculously OP guns like the Krysae or Falcon are Gold and so everyone had them at level X?

I wish. If that was true, maybe they would have hit the stupid Reegar at somepoint.

[N7 Tigger]

Maybe with friends, but the general public have an aversion to it, and it was definitely a lot less popular back in the day. The Carnifex/Paladin were the HP kings.

 

I love getting messages from PUG's like "Wow, who would have thought to use the Talon on the Geth Infiltrator?"

[capn233]

Reegar is balanced by low range.  Especially on the Tora Bora map where you engage enemies at 800m.

[NuclearTech76]

Is it that the ridiculously OP guns like the Krysae or Falcon are Gold and so everyone had them at level X?

It took about two nights for people to figure the thing out and then Gold became Bronze for a team of GIs. At the time the speedrun record was completely demolished in about a week with a foursome of Krysae users. A lot of the reaction on BSN is overreaction but the Krysae at the time really was that damn good and easy to use for the average player. 

 

Look at the nerf stats on the Falcon particularily the ROF and imagine what any infantry level mook including phantoms could do with that thing being fired into their faces. 

 

Bioware is still more reactionary than anything though so it was really all about the number of people using it and how prevalent it was in lobbies. 

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

I love getting messages from PUG's like "Wow, who would have thought to use the Talon on the Geth Infiltrator?"

 

I had the same when I used it on the HFI.

 

I did get kicked from a lobby a few months back when the host insisted I switch to a better gun. I had to laugh.