99 réponses à ce sujet

[philippe willaume]

I assume that a person wielding a two handed sword would have practice using it in close quarters like the ones you describe OP. Therefore the person would not be at the disadvantages you describe. A person unfamiliar with the weapon would have that problem.

 

The two hander would simply compensate for the conditions. Unless the two hander is equally proficient with the other weapon why would he/she change weapons?

 

yeap every range up to and including wrestling is included in medieval fencing manuscripts. As well that includes technique to counter someone that tries to close without wrestling.

 

TBH, before I started Medieval martial Arts, I had  the same misconception as the OP.

 

 

At the end of the day on top of the twohanded sword having a very long reach, even if you pass the point o, you can still be chopped or sliced during all the time it takes to reach the dude that is holding the TWS. (which a spear don't really have)

[philippe willaume]

That would eliminate the ability to assume control of any party member. I want to be able to control any or all the party members not just issue commands. Dragon Age has always given that ability to the player. I have zero interest in having my player skill trump character skill. That is why I build my character. If my player skill can overcome the limitations of my character what is the point in building a character?

amen to that

[GVulture]

God no. I want tactical combat not "run back to a bottle/neck corner and kite combat". Also, slow and clunky and ARGH. No.

[Althix]

Please don't copy anything from common grinders.

you should play it first before making some ridiculous assumptions such as this.

 

anyway on topic.

as you could see in the last trailer, and a trailer before. Combat of DAI inherited most of its mechanics from DA2, which includes some dumbest movesets possible (like 360 degrees swings). 5 metres jumps in armor and all this crap. So by all means it's already too late to ask for any decent combat mechanics for this game.

 

Also you must remember, topic starter, that in Dark Souls and in Souls series in general you play alone. And combat mechanics is designed for a single character.

[philippe willaume]

Also you must remember, topic starter, that in Dark Souls and in Souls series in general you play alone. And combat mechanics is designed for a single character.

 

i think the op tack was more on DS weapon differentiation rather than the game play itself.

 

phil

[Althix]

well, there is a difference in weapons, there is a difference in what part of the weapon you hit, be it blade or handle - you will get a different numbers. it's all there, you must know your weapon in Souls games yes. You must plan how you want to fight, so some tactical assessment is in order.

 

In general DS games are thought out better than the most of rpgs. It's mechanics, be it combat mechanics or character building and developement of the character.

 

and this weapon differentiation actually have a direct impact on the gameplay itself. (within the borders of DS mechanics)

[Nefla]

That would eliminate the ability to assume control of any party member. I want to be able to control any or all the party members not just issue commands. Dragon Age has always given that ability to the player. I have zero interest in having my player skill trump character skill. That is why I build my character. If my player skill can overcome the limitations of my character what is the point in building a character?

I have no idea what the point would be for you. There is no point for me playing the current combat system because I find it dull, easy, and not engaging and I find myself wanting to skip it entirely.

[SomberXIII]

I wish everyone else here were smart enough to understand this.

Hey. This kind of speech isn't allowed here. Don't be so rude. Everyone here may be smarter than you.

[tmp7704]

There is no point for me playing the current combat system because I find it dull, easy, and not engaging and I find myself wanting to skip it entirely.

Hopefully the game will introduce "skip the combat" button Jennifer Hepler championed a while ago, that way you can get your entertainment and these who enjoy current combat system can have theirs.

[philippe willaume]

well, there is a difference in weapons, there is a difference in what part of the weapon you hit, be it blade or handle - you will get a different numbers. it's all there, you must know your weapon in Souls games yes. You must plan how you want to fight, so some tactical assessment is in order.

 

In general DS games are thought out better than the most of rpgs. It's mechanics, be it combat mechanics or character building and developement of the character.

 

and this weapon differentiation actually have a direct impact on the gameplay itself. (within the borders of DS mechanics)

yes and as far as i understand that was the OP point. 

in fact having difference damage value/to hot/aming according to how you use a weapon (blunt force, slicing, chopping or thrusting) can have the huge tactical impact regardless of the game system. (and can even make class differentiation/ weapon restriction easier)

phil

[Boss Fog]

God no. I want tactical combat not "run back to a bottle/neck corner and kite combat". Also, slow and clunky and ARGH. No.

This sounds more like DA2 than anything else.

[AlanC9]

Bottlenecking and kiting worked just fine in DAO. Hell, whenever I hear someone talking about "tactical" combat being impossible in DA2 it usually turns out that he's complaining about the enemy reinforcements making bottlenecking difficult.

[TheExtreamH]

[Deflagratio]

That would eliminate the ability to assume control of any party member. I want to be able to control any or all the party members not just issue commands. Dragon Age has always given that ability to the player. I have zero interest in having my player skill trump character skill. That is why I build my character. If my player skill can overcome the limitations of my character what is the point in building a character?

 

 

amen to that

 

 

 

 

Player skill has always been able to overcome Character skill. Even in the P&P realm.

 

Looking at player skill and character skill as different things, rather than two sides of the same coin invalidates the idea of gaming as a whole. Interactivity necessitates player involvement, and thus some measurement of personal skill investment.

 

That said, in a Class-based game like Dragon Age: Inquisition, how much investment should yield a return? I think the combat realm is perhaps the limitation of where this return should come from, which actually lends itself to the tactical focus of the game.

 

In games like Skyrim, where you can literally have zero Lockpicking skill, and break master locks open with minimal effort (If you're good at that sort of thing like I am), it makes a little less sense. The idea of player skill trumping character skill in this case can create that sense of cognitive dissonance.

 

My general feeling is, Character Skill tells you want you can do. Player skill determines how well you can do it, though there's certainly some overlap between the two.

 

Remember that Dark Souls is a game just about combat. There is no world agency besides killing things, which makes it a poor example to compare to with games that focus much more on world interactions like Dragon Age.

[Althix]

Just as side note. Lore in Souls games is very reach. And you can also interact with a lot of npcs and objects there, make choice and see results.

 

Also i can't find your remark about "DS is a game just about combat" as valid argument, because topic starter is talking about combat and nothing else.

 

And another note: "Focus on world interactions" is a poor excuse for a bad combat mechanics.

[Deflagratio]

Just as side note. Lore in Souls games is very reach. And you can also interact with a lot of npcs and objects there, make choice and see results.

 

And another note: "Focus on world interactions" is a poor excuse for a bad combat mechanics.

 

 

World Interaction in souls games is very shallow. Hit a powder keg with a fire spell, and there's some useless treasure. Use a Pharros' Lockstone and open up a new area. Snore bore. NPC Interaction consists of Exhausting dialog or chopping them into little bits. It's all very binary Yes/No On/Off Dead/Alive. Dark Souls is not a series about Emergent gameplay outside of it's combat. It's a highly overrated series in terms of world-building, particularly in the case of Dark Souls 2. And I speak as a fan who has 1000/1000 Both titles. (DS2 felt a lot easier in that regard)

 

And you're wrong on the second comment too, There is no excuse for poor combat mechanics period. Mechanics are objectively bad or good. How a set of mechanics works in a game can be more subjective, but if your game has any length of combat, it should do it right. Even if that means straight ripping off another game.

[Little Princess Peach]

I rather have dragon age have its own uniqe way of doing things

[Althix]

World Interaction in souls games is very shallow.

yeah but here is the thing. you can say the very same about... let me think. ME1/ME2/ME3. DAO,DA2 (especially).

Because in the end it's all about fetch quest. They only thing that pulls BW products out is the characters. And some kind of plot, which they botched in last two games so very bad.

Also take into consideration setting of Souls games. And setting of... DA or ME. Themes are different.

As for DS2, as it now i have no idea about its gameplay. I was keeping myself outside any media sources about this product.

 

Personally i don't think that Souls game combat mechanics would fit well in DA games. But on the other hand i just can't stand some bs that you could see in DA2 and what will be a combat mechanics in DAI (judging by trailers).

 

Game mechanics for me is very important, this is why i despise DA2 so much.

 

p.s. i have no idea what 1000/1000 is.

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

Yes, please copy Dark Souls exactly, I can't wait to trade DA:I back in after an hour of play.

 

You are entitled to your poor taste.  Curious, why did you hate it so much?

 

Edit: You said in a previous post you hated the DA:O combat system.  Yeeeeah, I think I know what kind of gamer you are.  Forget I said anything.

[Nefla]

Hopefully the game will introduce "skip the combat" button Jennifer Hepler championed a while ago, that way you can get your entertainment and these who enjoy current combat system can have theirs.

The theoretical option that she got crucified for daring to want you mean?

As I've said before, I get my primary enjoyment through story, characters, lore, RP, and exploration. Even something as simple as making fewer enemies that are more unique and much more challenging would improve combat for me even though I dislike the style.

[Deflagratio]

yeah but here is the thing. you can say the very same about... let me think. ME1/ME2/ME3. DAO,DA2 (especially).

Because in the end it's all about fetch quest. They only thing that pulls BW products out is the characters. And some kind of plot, which they botched in last two games so very bad.

Also take into consideration setting of Souls games. And setting of... DA or ME. Themes and different.

As for DS2, as it now i have no idea about its gameplay. I was keeping myself outside any media sources about this product.

 

Personally i don't think that Souls game combat mechanics would fit well in DA games. But on the other hand i just can't stand some bs that you could see in DA2 and what will be a combat mechanics in DAI (judging by trailers).

 

Game mechanics for me is very important, this is why i despise DA2 so much.

 

p.s. i have no idea what 1000/1000 is.

 

 

Actually, the world interaction in DA:O and the Mass Effect series is quite high, if you're of the like mind that the characters are part of the world. Perhaps this is just a difference of opinion? The ability to shape events and outcomes through the characters was always kind of thematic to DA and ME.

 

I'm of the mind that the [melee] combat mechanics of Dark Souls (Particularly 2 actually, which I feel is mechanically superior) is a perfect fit within the lines of combat in Dragon Age: Inquisition. Specifically the combat that the player directly controls. Copying it exactly probably isn't the right way to put it, there's a lot to appreciate under the hood with Dark Souls. Mostly when I speak on the matter, I like the importance of timing and precision and stamina management. Obviously DA:I is going to be factoring in things like Group Abilities, Combat Techniques, larger areas... But if we boil it down to Player-controlled moments engaging the target with Melee, I don't see how Dark Souls feel isn't optimal.

[Althix]

Here is the thing, you can't shape events in both settings be it ME and DA, it's a rail road. Just like with DS.

difference in general is that ME/DA games built around 'fetch', when DS games built around "kill all bosses."

And yes roleplaying element in BW products is much higher and reach. But in the end, whatever "choice" you make, it doesn't matter. There is no fail scenario, only a fail plot. Just like in Souls games, they are not hardcore, they are challenging, they make you to learn on mistakes, but that's it.

 

And about combat. Personally i would like to see something similar to DS mechanics in BW games. It's not "realistic" as some may say, but it's just better. However as you mentioned we have a group abilities, combat techniques, also specializations. All this ancestry from previous games. I just can't see how all of it can fit well with the fact that you can die from a few strikes. All npcs in DS for example survive punishment from mobs and Bosses only because of their health pool. Difference between player and npc in Souls games is enourmous.

 

And when companions have a larger role in the game, like in DA for example, i just can't see how DS combat will fit in DA setting. Because i don't wanna see companions in DA game just as health pools.

 

What i can add that in both trailers with gameplay, that BW actually add some freedom in maneuvers(like dodging and rolling). Which i hope will make DAI 'player skill dependant' game, instead of buttons mashing game as previous games are. So i hope for hybrid of some kind... but these jumps and swings... man...

[Deflagratio]

Your first paragraph makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't know if you need to go through and edit it, or If I'm just having trouble reconciling what I know with what you're saying.

 

Both in DA and ME you can determine the fates of entire populations... In fiction, a world is defined by the characters. So if that isn't world interaction, I don't know what is.

[Sylvius the Mad]

p.s. i have no idea what 1000/1000 is.

I suspect it's a gamerscore thing.

[Deflagratio]

I suspect it's a gamerscore thing.

 

 

It is, personally I figured that he was just feigning ignorance, trying to seem aloof-cool.