546 réponses à ce sujet

[Mes]

I don't remember tooooo much about ME3's finer details on each conversation, but there's one thing that I loved about Steve.

 

 

My reaction when Steve shared he had a husband: "Oh!  Oh hey.  He's gay!"

Shepard's reaction when Steve shard he had a husband: <carry on conversation without blinking an eye>

 

What I loved so much, was how much of a non issue it was for Shepard.  It was something that I learned about myself, and I feel I actually became a better person, if slightly, because of that scene.

 

 

Representation was a common talking point at two panels for PAX Prime: the LGBT panel and the Romance panel.  I was there for the LGBT panel, in the audience, and it was pretty eye opening to me.  The line to ask a question was huge, and the questions and perspectives were varied all along.

 

One person felt that Alistair was possibly conflicted about his own sexuality,and ended up asking if BioWare would ever explore having companions that were conflicted/struggling with their own sexuality.  He opened the question by stating that BioWare's games helped him deal with his own sexuality.

 

Someone actually did say "This is why we needed Steve and Traynor in the game, because at least we were represented in the game, even if we couldn't necessarily romance them."  To reinforce the idea that a person can have all sorts of traits, and that person can be gay, or bisexual, or heterosexual.  IIRC, not as many hands went up for "should we have made them bisexual instead."

 

I think it was Patrick shared at one point that he felt the idea of having the player openly experience the same things they feel in their real life (whether it be picking up dog poo, or dealing with homophobia), and it was in response to someone that said that they felt that clearly omitting some of those challenges has a tendency to make things look overly "happy happy" (to use their words) cheapened the depiction.  There are some that feel that "all bisexual" is as problematic as "all straight" so I do think, for some people, it's an issue of representation for some.  They like seeing some of that stuff, and they consider it positive.

 

Thanks for your post, Allan, that's actually pretty darn cool.

 

I think for the first time I am warming up to the idea of the 2/2/2 split, thanks to your reply... It's just so cool to hear about people's positive and sometimes life altering experiences from meeting these characters. It's so much more inspiring to hear than just "because realism."

 

I had a similar reaction as you to Steve. I think someone like Steve could have had even more of an impact if he were more of a "main" character, like Garrus or Kaidan.

 

Personally I think it'd be AWESOME to incorporate sexuality struggles into a character. I don't know if it'd make sense for it to happen in a DA game, because thus far it doesn't seem like anyone in that universe has ever had a problem with people's orientations to begin with.... but I'd love love love to see it.

 

Can I ask what specifically that person was saying about Alistair's sexuality?

[Mes]

Stuuuupid double posttttingggg.

[In Exile]

Yep.

 

As it is one of my m/f options is taken up by Cullen :X

 

By this point underwhelming M/F romance options seems to be a Bioware tradition. But obviously YMMV. 

[Grieving Natashina]

For the record, at least among my friends in the LBGTQ community here on the forums, none of us thought that BIoWare had turned their back.  We did think that Cameron used a poor choice of words and should have probably prepared for the interview a little better, at least in regards with how to answer that question.  That was a bit of a facepalm.

 

Still, I haven't heard any of my friends scream "pre-order cancelled" or "how dare you BioWare" over this.  Shoot, we can't stop talking about how excited we are for the game as a whole.  I was disheartened by the news and rather irked by the poor choice of words at first.  Now I'm just letting it go, since I know no harm was meant.  

 

Plus, seeing Allan and David both come by to talk with us has been very reassuring for me at least.  Allan has been listening to us the whole time since these threads started, which is extremely kind of him.  David (and by proxy, the rest of the DA team) do care a great deal about this.  Before any of us start crying "Betrayal!" we might want to let more information come out first.

[Maria Caliban]

By this point underwhelming M/F romance options seems to be a Bioware tradition. But obviously YMMV.

I wouldn't consider Morrigan, Liara, Alistiar, Garrus, Tali, Bastila, Carth, Leliana, (ME 1) Kaiden, Miranda, or Jack to be underwhelming.

But obviously YMMV.

[Ryzaki]

By this point underwhelming M/F romance options seems to be a Bioware tradition. But obviously YMMV. 

 

Well I usually get at least one M/F choice that's decent.

 

I just...not feeling Cullen. Friendship wise? Sure we can brofist all day. Romance? =/
 

[In Exile]

I wouldn't consider Morrigan, Liara, Alistiar, Garrus, Tali, Bastila, Carth, Leliana, (ME 1) Kaiden, Miranda, or Jack to be underwhelming.

But obviously YMMV.

 

My impression was that the M/F was a reference to M-NPC and F-PC, so only the bold would be on the list. Of those, I only really thought Garrus was awesome. 

[CronoDragoon]

Well I usually get at least one M/F choice that's decent.

 

I just...not feeling Cullen. Friendship wise? Sure we can brofist all day. Romance? =/
 

 

They could always surprise you. My opinion of Isabela changed quiiiite a bit from the beginning of DA2 to the end. Ended up romancing.

[Darth Krytie]

I wouldn't consider Morrigan, Liara, Alistiar, Garrus, Tali, Bastila, Carth, Leliana, (ME 1) Kaiden, Miranda, or Jack to be underwhelming.

But obviously YMMV.

 

I definitely don't either. Garrus was my hands-down favourite thing of all time.

 

You didn't list it, but the Ashley romance was pretty cool, too.

[Ryzaki]

They could always surprise you. My opinion of Isabela changed quiiiite a bit from the beginning of DA2 to the end. Ended up romancing.

 

True but him being a NPC romance already means I'm not going to be that inclined to get to know him anyway though. *shrugs* and I like battle couples for my femPCs.

[Maria Caliban]

My impression was that the M/F was a reference to M-NPC and F-PC, so only the bold would be on the list. Of those, I only really thought Garrus was awesome.

The more I thought about it, the more I realized that the only characters who aren't M/F romance options were Cortez and Samantha. So yeah, I think you're right and M/F romance option means 'male love interests other than Cortez.'

I do think female LI tend to be more interesting than the male ones but... yeah, I may be biased.

[KaiserShep]

I had a similar reaction as you to Steve. I think someone like Steve could have had even more of an impact if he were more of a "main" character, like Garrus or Kaidan.

 

Aside from that, much of Steve's part in the game was focused on his grief. As one whose Shep is attentive and helps him get over it, I find the friendship dynamic to be rather great and I always get him to survive in the end, but someone who's grieving over the loss of a spouse/lover never strikes me as the best option for a love interest. Traynor benefits from having no such baggage along with her character. Honestly, this was an issue I had with Jack as well. That girl had enough baggage to fill a starlifter.

[CronoDragoon]

Aside from that, much of Steve's part in the game was focused on his grief. As one whose Shep is attentive and helps him get over it, I find the friendship dynamic to be rather great and I always get him to survive in the end, but someone who's grieving over the loss of a spouse/lover never strikes me as the best option for a love interest. Traynor benefits from having no such baggage along with her character. Honestly, this was an issue I had with Jack as well. That girl had enough baggage to fill a starlifter.

 

Some people are worth filling starlifters for, bro.

[Mes]

Aside from that, much of Steve's part in the game was focused on his grief. As one whose Shep is attentive and helps him get over it, I find the friendship dynamic to be rather great and I always get him to survive in the end, but someone who's grieving over the loss of a spouse/lover never strikes me as the best option for a love interest. Traynor benefits from having no such baggage along with her character. Honestly, this was an issue I had with Jack as well. That girl had enough baggage to fill a starlifter.

 

Yeah fair enough, Steve's (and others') baggage was just.... TOO MUCH. I really hope Inquisition's LIs come from a better place, and are able to start a HEALTHY relationship.

[KaiserShep]

Some people are worth filling starlifters for, bro.

 

You got me there.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah fair enough, Steve's (and others') baggage was just.... TOO MUCH. I really hope Inquisition's LIs come from a better place, and are able to start a HEALTHY relationship.

 

Same even the DA2 LIs were just.

 

I'm getting pretty tired of the PC being a damn warrior therapist. Ask my PC about his/her feelings and fears and failings for goddamn once.

[Veriond]

It's not my intent to suggest that fixed sexuality is somehow better; I was genuinely curious if you saw featuring queer NPCs more prominently to be a substitute for providing options for a queer protagonist. I personally have mixed feelings, because while it's nice to have more representation in NPCs that players can't hide from and pretend isn't there, I do think that isn't equivalent to creating exclusions in content based on IRL identity. 

 

Ah, okay. No I don't think NPCs are a substitute for options for queer players. Due to my perceptions of what the resource limitations are I would prefer to see prominate, unambigiously queer NPCs of a variety of orientations and all bi LIs. I want more queer NPCs in general as thus far in the games themselves queer characters have largely been limited to the LIs. This 2/2/2 approach to LI's doesn't change that. So I am happy to see there will be gay and lesbian as well as bisexual characters in DA:I and David's comment that their content isn't just for if you romance them is a big positive. But I would still like to see prominate queer characters who aren't LIs.

[KaiserShep]

Same even the DA2 LIs were just.

 

I'm getting pretty tired of the PC being a damn warrior therapist. Ask my PC about his/her feelings and fears and failings for goddamn once.

 

Of the four, Isabela was the one I felt had the most benign issue, despite her past. In any case, it'd be nice to have a character that asks the personal questions instead of just answering them.

[Mes]

Same even the DA2 LIs were just.

 

I'm getting pretty tired of the PC being a damn warrior therapist. Ask my PC about his/her feelings and fears and failings for goddamn once.

 

I'm imagining a psychologist sitting in his office chair in full fledged armor.

 

Yeah it'd be really cool to be able to talk about yourself more, as the PC. Have companions take a genuine interest in you. I thought DAO had some of that - I remember going into camp and all of a sudden a companion would come up and ask some question. Alistair wanted to hear some gossip, Wynne wouldn't shut up with her advice about my relationship choices... Can't remember what else, but yes.

[Ryzaki]

Of the four, Isabela was the one I felt had the most benign issue, despite her past.

 

Yeah andd she at least mostly kept it to herself unless probed at.

 

 

I'm imagining a psychologist sitting in his office chair in full fledged armor.

 

Yeah it'd be really cool to be able to talk about yourself more, as the PC. Have companions take a genuine interest in you. I thought DAO had some of that - I remember going into camp and all of a sudden a companion would come up and ask some question. Alistair wanted to hear some gossip, Wynne wouldn't shut up with her advice about my relationship choices... Can't remember what else, but yes.

 

Yes Wynne was the best at that. You could talk to her about losing your family as HN and about Shianni's rape as CE. Shame she added so much preaching into it. But Alistair just wanted to know about the other companions. Nosy bastard

[Allan Schumacher]

RE: Allan

 

Part of it is messaging issues that have already been brought up. Part of it is lack of clear information, which with further details will likely either lay to rest or confirm quite a few of worries. I would say in general what I have seen of the queer community is that yes we are very supportive of what queer content has been given. That said, and not to take away for my love of the queer characters we have, there has been a trend to them either being sidelined with straight LI's being plot essentual or fitting in with some hurtful stereotypes. The all bi LIs of DA2 by their nature of all being bi avoided that. Part of the worry is that the return of straight LI's to Dragon Age means that the queer content will be shuffled off to the metaphoical corner where it can be safely ignored by the "dudebro" gamers who so loudly objected to DA2's LIs all being bi as "unrealistic".

 

That is the place where the betrayal feelings are coming from. A perception that, rather that increasing queer inclusivity Bioware is caving to complaints that DA2 was too queer. Now I personally am hopeful that that is not, in fact, the rational behind this LI decision. But the general vagueness about LI sexuallity, number, and follower vs non follower status is definitely causing a great deal of worry among many queer gamers.

 

Thanks!  I think it's important that stuff like this still gets communicated, because it clarifies the feelings of betrayal as a sense of "when it was exclusive in the past, it kinda sucked for us."  I find this a very important message, because it serves as a reminder: "If we're going to do something like this, remember that in the past it sucked for some people.  Don't make it suck for people."  This was a large takeaway that I had from the discussions at PAX.  It's perfectly reasonable to remind us that you think past games could have been done better.

 

 

For what it's worth, I do not really find "I find queer romances icky" to be a compelling reason for us to change the way we do romances.  I know I'm just saying words and you have a history of experiences where queer content IS shuffled into the corner, but I hope that we are able to show you that it doesn't need to be that way at all, and that we can still give interesting and balanced content across all the romance options we have available.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah andd she at least mostly kept it to herself unless probed at.

 

[Ryzaki]

 

XD

 

Can't...breathe...

 

 

That was supposed to be innocent I swear!

[Maria Caliban]

I thought Merrill and Isabela were okay. And Liara was good after you killed her mother.

Leliana had issues but you didn't work through them.

[LPPrince]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, with DA:I we'll see the end of playersexuality?

 

Hmm. If so, things are looking up. I like this, if so.