546 réponses à ce sujet

[Kidd]

I understand the concern about possibly ending up with the "short end of the stick", but I'm not sure where the DA team has yet given the impression that will be so. I'm not going to tell you that your concerns don't have validity—I'm actually quite familiar with how it feels to have my interests treated as a secondary concern when it comes to popular entertainment—but I'm hoping that concern need not equate with panic at this point. We've got a lot of time yet to discuss this.

As Mark Darrah tweeted earlier today, we have characters that are gay as well as bisexual and straight. I'm not going to discuss numbers or any further details at this point, so you can make of that what you will, but that allows us to tell more types of character stories without having to resort to ambiguity. Those stories exist for players who don't romance the characters as well, and that's also important[i].

Hearing this, many of my concerns are alleviated. I still prefer the subjective sexuality/"all bi"-approach from a pure game design perspective, but you just sold me on why this is not a terrible decision at all when looked at through other perspectives. Actually, I think it could potentially be pretty cool.

Guess I'll have to wait and see how it works out in the game. But you've definitely alleviated a ton of worries. Thanks for your time! =)

[fchopin]

I don't understand what's to question about an unequal amount of options.

We have a team of people with different sexualities and abilities so what does equal amount of options mean?
We are looking for a team to fight along with the Inquisitor not an equal amount of sexualities.
We will not fight the tear with sex.
There is a big city of people we can choose from whatever our sexual preferences.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

We have a team of people with different sexualities and abilities so what does equal amount of options mean?
We are looking for a team to fight along with the Inquisitor not an equal amount of sexualities.
We will not fight the tear with sex.
There is a big city of people we can choose from whatever our sexual preferences.

Unequal means we don't get as many love interests to choose from as other demographics. Pretty cut and dry.

[chaotic]

First the character you create can be anything you want so why do you assume the PC will be straight?
Why do you care if there are more straight characters than gay characters?
Do you not like to interact with different people who have their own sexuality? Must they all be only what you like?

We do not know what Bioware will do in the game, for example i like Cassandra but if she is only in to girls then that is something i have to accept as long as we get good characters.
Why do you assume that straight people will have more options or better options?

 

i didn't mention anything about the pc. i'm talking the characters my pc gets to interact with.

wow. i'm sorry for wanting some options for my group of people.

i think you'd benefit in understanding my point of view by reading my previous post, a few pages back, which addresses most of these questions.

 

what do you mean, why do we assume this? have you missed my use of the word 'again'? we (or at least, i) assume this because that's exactly what happened in all previous Bioware games, save for DA2.

[fchopin]

Hearing this, many of my concerns are alleviated. I still prefer the subjective sexuality/"all bi"-approach from a pure game design perspective, but you just sold me on why this is not a terrible decision at all when looked at through other perspectives. Actually, I think it could potentially be pretty cool.

Guess I'll have to wait and see how it works out in the game. But you've definitely alleviated a ton of worries. Thanks for your time! =)

Mr. Gaider is not the first to say this so why do suddenly all your concerns alleviate?
Why were they not alleviated before when other people said similar things?

[karushna5]

I was thinking the same thing. It would be awesome if she turned out to like women though.

Oh yeah, I mean even the lesbian community has issue with Butch women to some degree. I have tons of lesbian movies and maybe only one with a Butch woman. Personally, as long as they arent the side characters I am good. I worry, that the gay characters will be the ones you cant take on missions. That would be devastating. Non companions arent the same. Even in the past, alistair and Morigan were central to the plot.

Zevran and Leliana just weren't. Cassandra seems central. If she is Bi, or a lesbian... Fears averted. If she is straight, well fears confirmed. None of the other characters seem central yet. We will see...

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Mr. Gaider is not the first to say this so why do suddenly all your concerns alleviate?
Why were they not alleviated before when other people said similar things?

Because other people aren't the lead writer of the Dragon Age series, I'd imagine. 

[fchopin]

Unequal means we don't get as many love interests to choose from as other demographics. Pretty cut and dry.

And how do you know it will not be the straight people who get the short end of the stick?
All we know so far is that we will have at least one option unless you are Bisexual which will mean that you get more options so we will have to wait and see what we get.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

And how do you know it will not be the straight people who get the short end of the stick?
All we know so far is that we will have at least one option unless you are Bisexual which will mean that you get more options so we will have to wait and see what we get.

I didn't say it wouldn't be. I responded to a specific question you posed. You asked why people care how many gay/bi characters will be available. It's because we want an equal amount of options with comparable content. I didn't say that I didn't think we'd get it.

[fchopin]

Because other people aren't the lead writer of the Dragon Age series, I'd imagine.

So in other words it is not what is said that matters but who says it.
Apparently Mr. Gaider has shown @Kidd the light but we are just irrelevant guests who should be disregarded on what we say as we do not carry the correct candle of light.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

So in other words it is not what is said that matters but who says it.
Apparently Mr. Gaider has shown @Kidd the light but we are just irrelevant guests who should be disregarded on what we say as we do not carry the correct candle of light.

Well, yeah, obviously so. You don't know what the content is. He created the content. If I'm going to take someone's word for it, I'm going to go with the person that knows what "it" is. 

[Ianamus]

Unequal means we don't get as many love interests to choose from as other demographics. Pretty cut and dry.

 

It can also mean getting more love interests to choose from than other demographics. 

[syllogi]

So in other words it is not what is said that matters but who says it.
Apparently Mr. Gaider has shown @Kidd the light but we are just irrelevant guests who should be disregarded on what we say as we do not carry the correct candle of light.

 

Yes, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being reassured by someone with actual knowledge of the content of the game rather than outsiders who are conjecturing based on very little information.

[Mes]

Maria did not say equal, she said not the same.

 

What. I'm confused by what you mean in relation to my post. 

 

I personally, as a separate human from the rest of you, feel that a lot of heterosexual relationships in the media are unequal. That is me. And my feelings. JUST ME. What's the problem exactly?

[fchopin]

Yes, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being reassured by someone with actual knowledge of the content of the game rather than outsiders who are conjecturing based on very little information.

I agree with what you say, what the lead writer says is very important but my problem is why did it not make sense when we said similar things in the past?
Why does it make more sense now that Mr. Gaider said it?

[stuffystuffs]

I'm still not happy with it because I know I will probably get the short end of the stick as far as choices. I would literally laugh out loud though if they made Cassandra a lesbian. But, she has short hair and is gruff, which means they will probably make her super straight, since Bioware is apparently terrified of making characters even a little bit stereotypical of their sexual orientations. CAN'T MAKE THE BUTCH GIRL GAY, BECAUSE REASONS.

 

There might not be any lesbians, tbh.

[Will-o'-wisp]

i find it curious how no-one responded to my previous post 
 
(1)but i'd like to raise a few more concerns that i've since thought of:
i'm afraid that we once again will be put in a situation where the main characters relevant to the plot will be straight, and the rest will be the 'optional'/less relevant characters. i'm also afraid that we once again will be faced with a majority of straight companions and gay/bi romances from npcs.
 
(2)frankly i don't think making the LIs a strict sexuality shows "representation". because even so, people can choose to opt out of the queer aspect and avoid the gay romances like wildfire. which is their choice - but what "representation" should mean is characters outside the Inquisitor's bunch being queer. i'd like to see a queer couple while exploring the city, or do a quest for one, or anything of the sort.

(1) I think it's legit to be afraid of repetitiveness, but that's honestly nothing that the 2/2/2 approach has any influence on imo. In total there will of course be more straight characters in the game/party/important roles than there are bi or gay ones, cause there are simply way more straight people in Thedas. But right now there's no reason to assume that the straight ones will be significant and the other ones not so much.

(2) I don't see how playersexuality makes any of this better? It only forces all LIs to be bisexual, that doesn't seem like representation to me, rather like forced standardization.

[fchopin]

What. I'm confused by what you mean in relation to my post. 
 
I personally, as a separate human from the rest of you, feel that a lot of heterosexual relationships in the media are unequal. That is me. And my feelings. JUST ME. What's the problem exactly?

I posted Maria's post below. Nothing wrong with what you said, just pointing out that Maria said "not the same" and you said "equal".
 

I'm going to agree that romancing a character with a male PC is not the same as romancing them with a female one. It's not as romantic or emotionally engaging to me.

[syllogi]

I agree with what you say, what the lead writer says is very important but my problem is why did it not make sense when we said similar things in the past?Why does it make more sense now that Mr. Gaider said it?

Personally, I was very hurt by Cameron Lee's original quote in the article about "one solid sexual orientation" being more "realistic" than whatever we had in DA2, as a real live person who came out as a lesbian as a teenager, started calling myself heterosexual in my twenties, but now identifies as bisexual (basically I had to come out twice). BUT, I decided not to comment here or elsewhere about it until I got more information from the devs. In this thread and the last, I've been clicking on the Bioware button to only read dev posts (thanks Allan, for being so involved), and only now, after David Gaider said things that made me less nervous, am I reading fan comments.

I honestly don't know what you or others said previously, but nothing people who aren't making the game says right now is going to reassure me. After the game comes out, if/when there are debates about how romances were implemented, sure, fan opinions should matter on both sides. But right now, I think I was better off waiting for the lead writer to at least justify my wait and see approach.

[fchopin]

Personally, I was very hurt by Cameron Lee's original quote in the article about "one solid sexual orientation" being more "realistic" than whatever we had in DA2, as a real live person who came out as a lesbian as a teenager, started calling myself heterosexual in my twenties, but now identifies as bisexual (basically I had to come out twice). BUT, I decided not to comment here or elsewhere about it until I got more information from the devs. In this thread and the last, I've been clicking on the Bioware button to only read dev posts (thanks Allan, for being so involved), and only now, after David Gaider said things that made me less nervous, am I reading fan comments.

I honestly don't know what you or others said previously, but nothing people who aren't making the game says right now is going to reassure me. After the game comes out, if/when there are debates about how romances were implemented, sure, fan opinions should matter on both sides. But right now, I think I was better off waiting for the lead writer to at least justify my wait and see approach.

I am sorry you were hurt by what Cameron Lee said.
I am also sorry if what i said upset you it was not my intention, i do believe in equality for all and freedom so sometimes i may look a little harsh in what i say.

If what Mr. Gaider said helped you then i am happy for you and hope the future improves for all gay people.

[WildOrchid]

I was thinking the same thing. It would be awesome if she turned out to like women though.

 

That would be pretty awesome, but i very much doubt it will happen. Come to think of it, we've never had any 'main' gay lady/guy.

I'm totally fine with what Gaider said, in fact it made me feel quite better than before but i'll still keep biting my nails hoping that my ladyInquisitor can romance Cassandra. D:

 

 

I remember someone here saying Gaider is writing someone who struggles with sexuality (pls correct me if i'm wrong)..

What if this 'someone' is actually Cass? Like, she always knew she liked guys but when the ladyInquisitor appeared, she started struggling and slowly developing feelings for her? Oh man, i'd love to see that.

(besides, let's be real, dat ladyInquisitor's smirk can turn anyone gay/straight for her. )

[Ianamus]

 

frankly i don't think making the LIs a strict sexuality shows "representation". because even so, people can choose to opt out of the queer aspect and avoid the gay romances like wildfire. 

 

Just because someone does not follow the romance path does not mean that the character will stop expressing their sexuality.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

More than I hope that there is a "main" gay/bi LI this time, I hope they tried to make all the companion LIs comparatively plot relevant. 

[tmp7704]

I'm still not happy with it because I know I will probably get the short end of the stick as far as choices. I would literally laugh out loud though if they made Cassandra a lesbian. But, she has short hair and is gruff, which means they will probably make her super straight, since Bioware is apparently terrified of making characters even a little bit stereotypical of their sexual orientations. CAN'T MAKE THE BUTCH GIRL GAY, BECAUSE REASONS.

To be fair, aren't the REASONS potential backlash from the gay community who'd see it as lazy, negative stereotyping and example how they're treated like some sort of second rate part of the playerbase? So it's pretty easy to understand why BW would be reluctant about such approach.

tbh I'm hoping Cassandra "romance" will boil down to her using renegade interrupt after first option is chosen and stopping that lovey-dovey **** right there. For every player character. :s

[Kidd]

Mr. Gaider is not the first to say this so why do suddenly all your concerns alleviate?
Why were they not alleviated before when other people said similar things?

Several reasons, really. First of all, he's the lead writer so he would know the exact machinations of the design approach at a finer level than anybody outside the writers' pit. While I can argue with fans all day over theoretical approaches, the author of an unreleased work of course argues from a stronger position.

There's also Gaider's admission that he knows how it is to be part of an often forgotten demographic. I'm assuming his mentioning this implies that he does not believe he would not have felt left out had he picked up the game himself as a fan. That is of course pure speculation on my part and not at all what he said, but it's where my mind landed after leading his post in full. He's not about to give us all the nitty gritty details on everything, so I don't see how he could try to reassure us any more than he already has.

And finally, and this is maybe a bigger part of it all than I care to admit myself - it's been a day since the news struck. This isn't chaos hour any longer, and in the admittedly calmer state I am today I am probably more open to opinions that conflict with my own. Especially when they come from one of the authors' mouth.

I am of course still a bit worried that I'll end up feeling a bit cheated by mere bad luck (as in the hypothetical DAO playthrough I detailed in this post in the previously closed thread). Hence I mentioned that I don't necessarily agree with the decision on a pure game design level. But I'm very willing to dig in and see what I'm going to get even so. Sometimes a sacrifice is worth it, and sometimes what is perceived to be a sacrifice doesn't really end up being a sacrifice at all. Only one way to know, and I'll know by the 10th of October or so.