138 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

Sorry, but no.  The elven, mage and dwarven armies follow you, not Alistair/Anora, but you, no matter what race you are.  The only authority you had were treaties when you started out, and yet, you built an army, and led them, to defeat a blight.  If they were just going to follow whomever, they'd have followed Loghain.  They don't, and won't, they are there for the Warden, and nobody else.  Remember the the little wheel you got in Denerim?  The one where you could summon your armies to help you?  They are your armies, following you, and if you were a CE, then they are following somebody that actually killed members of the ruling class in Denerim, or could have.  There doesn't have to be any rationalization for it, and the video in the twitter thread in this very forum sort of bears that out.  You were the only one who survived the blast, you are the one that leads.

[SerCambria358]

Sorry, but no.  The elven, mage and dwarven armies follow you, not Alistair/Anora, but you, no matter what race you are.  The only authority you had were treaties when you started out, and yet, you built an army, and led them, to defeat a blight.  If they were just going to follow whomever, they'd have followed Loghain.  They don't, and won't, they are there for the Warden, and nobody else.  Remember the the little wheel you got in Denerim?  The one where you could summon your armies to help you?  They are your armies, following you, and if you were a CE, then they are following somebody that actually killed members of the ruling class in Denerim, or could have.  There doesn't have to be any rationalization for it, and the video in the twitter thread in this very forum sort of bears that out.  You were the only one who survived the blast, you are the one that leads.

Calling for reinforcements doesnt equate to being the leader. If a medieval nation calls an ally for help, that doesnt mean they dictate exactly what that nations army will do. The armies went to denerim because the wardens asked, nothing more, you were involved in planning a single thing, Awakening is an example of leading. In my opinion if you want a character to make sense then yes it should be rationalized, we arent dictating when a small group of soldiers comes to help us, we're leading an entire organization with plenty of people who have experience in leading, in my opinion it would make sense for our character to have some reason for being more qualified than cassandra or cullen. A unique power doesnt fit that qualification 

[WhiteJoker]

Thing is a group of outcasts isnt an Inquisition, Alistair didnt want to lead anyone, morrigan had no experience, leliana had none, sten was owed you his life, wynne had none etc. Leading a small group is not comparable to a militaristic organization that has no superior.

You forget that in Origins you wander around and basically browbeat everybody into following your lead in the Blight because you're a Grey Warden; the second that they find out you're a Warden nobody bothers to stop and ask if you're the greatest Warden to ever have lived, worshipped in the halls of Weisshaupt, or if you're the scullery boy.  You're a Warden and you had the ancient treaties which compelled all signatories to provide aid for the Wardens in the event of a Blight; that was all the "who are they to demand this?!" justification you needed.  Now getting the various powers to follow through with the old pacts was an entirely different matter but the question of your credentials is largely moot.  This is helped along by the common knowledge that in the event of a Blight a Grey Warden is the only being capable of permanently killing an archdemon.

 

Whelp, how does that apply to Inquisition?  Much the same way.  The Warden gets to take charge during the Blight because everybody knows that Wardens are the only people who can actually kill Archdemons.  The veil's been torn, no doubt during the course of the game the Inquisition will discover that you, the player, are the only person capable (so far as they know) of sealing the rifts.  Will that automagically get you command?  Probably not, but it puts you on the very short list of people who are utterly unexpendable which adds gravity to your opinion (especially given that it appears that your rift closing ability is something you have to choose to do; as in they can't just throw you at a rift and have it close by your presence alone, meaning that they require a modicrum of your cooperation).  As per norm, you'll likely end up running around in the early bits not as the leader of a powerful organization, but rather as the member of a rag-tag group of misfits, where you eventually fall into the leadership position of, while getting positive results.  Results coupled with all the other bits gets you attention and when the Inquisition gets into full swing who're they going to look to lead it?  Why you, the leader of that band of rag-tag misfits who happen to be the only group getting results and traction during this crisis.

 

So really the question of who you were is moot because it's irrelevant in both cases.  Something happens at the beginning of the game that makes you pivotal: in Origins it's because you're one of the last of the Grey Wardens in Fereldan, and the other one doesn't want the job, where as in Inquisition, you're the only person able to solve the global crisis.  From there you rise to power relatively quickly because, hey, it's a crisis and results are what matters in those situations, and nobody really cares about who you were before you stepped up.

 

DA2 had a similar approach in that Hawke's opinion is courted and counted by the various factions and groups because s/he was there in a large number of pivotal points and stepped up to solve the problem.  It differs from Origins and Inquisition because DA2 takes place over several years so everybody has the luxury of slowly feeling him/her out.  However when you have a Blight happening, or a giant rift in the sky spewing out demons and other unsavory things, time isn't a luxury you're necessarily going to have.  You pick somebody, you throw them at the problem, and if they don't get you results you can them and pick somebody else.

[SerCambria358]

You forget that in Origins you wander around and basically browbeat everybody into following your lead in the Blight because you're a Grey Warden; the second that they find out you're a Warden nobody bothers to stop and ask if you're the greatest Warden to ever have lived, worshipped in the halls of Weisshaupt, or if you're the scullery boy.  You're a Warden and you had the ancient treaties which compelled all signatories to provide aid for the Wardens in the event of a Blight; that was all the "who are they to demand this?!" justification you needed.  Now getting the various powers to follow through with the old pacts was an entirely different matter but the question of your credentials is largely moot.  This is helped along by the common knowledge that in the event of a Blight a Grey Warden is the only being capable of permanently killing an archdemon.

 

Whelp, how does that apply to Inquisition?  Much the same way.  The Warden gets to take charge during the Blight because everybody knows that Wardens are the only people who can actually kill Archdemons.  The veil's been torn, no doubt during the course of the game the Inquisition will discover that you, the player, are the only person capable (so far as they know) of sealing the rifts.  Will that automagically get you command?  Probably not, but it puts you on the very short list of people who are utterly unexpendable which adds gravity to your opinion (especially given that it appears that your rift closing ability is something you have to choose to do; as in they can't just throw you at a rift and have it close by your presence alone, meaning that they require a modicrum of your cooperation).  As per norm, you'll likely end up running around in the early bits not as the leader of a powerful organization, but rather as the member of a rag-tag group of misfits, where you eventually fall into the leadership position of, while getting positive results.  Results coupled with all the other bits gets you attention and when the Inquisition gets into full swing who're they going to look to lead it?  Why you, the leader of that band of rag-tag misfits who happen to be the only group getting results and traction during this crisis.

 

So really the question of who you were is moot because it's irrelevant in both cases.  Something happens at the beginning of the game that makes you pivotal: in Origins it's because you're one of the last of the Grey Wardens in Fereldan, and the other one doesn't want the job, where as in Inquisition, you're the only person able to solve the global crisis.  From there you rise to power relatively quickly because, hey, it's a crisis and results are what matters in those situations, and nobody really cares about who you were before you stepped up.

 

DA2 had a similar approach in that Hawke's opinion is courted and counted by the various factions and groups because s/he was there in a large number of pivotal points and stepped up to solve the problem.  It differs from Origins and Inquisition because DA2 takes place over several years so everybody has the luxury of slowly feeling him/her out.  However when you have a Blight happening, or a giant rift in the sky spewing out demons and other unsavory things, time isn't a luxury you're necessarily going to have.  You pick somebody, you throw them at the problem, and if they don't get you results you can them and pick somebody else.

I disagree to comparing the wardens and your position as inquisitor. Wardens are the only ones who can kill an Archdemon, yes, but even then as i said above, you arent given absolute command like we are in our role as Inquisitor. The only real control we have is telling a given nation that we need their assistance and where to meet us no real leadership was given (notice Duncan wasnt given any role in the battle of Ostagar).

 

Even then wardens have extensive knowledge about darkspawn that most others dont have making them the better choice for a leader role when it comes to darkspawn related objectives, the inquisitor on the other hand, as far as we know has no knowledge as to what is going on and the only trait that seperates him from an ordinary soldier is the ability to close tears. That ability in itself gives him no experience to command a seeker let alone an entire militaristic organization from espionage to finances and military strategy, thats too much in my opinion for our character to just be some guy coming off the street, if that were the case have others lead while keeping the PC at their side to close the tear when needed, dont give him an unrivaled military organization that answers to no one, thats asking for a disaster.

[Squeeze the Fish]

From the trailer, I sort of got the impression that perhaps you're 'leading' the Inquisition, but you're not the Inquisition. You're a part. I feel like your companions are more vital- are bigger players than in previous games. Of course, most of that's speculation at this point, but besides Varric (who I think is kind of a tag-along like he was last time), most of the companions we know about seem to be pretty prominent. Cassandra, Vivienne, Leliana, we know have positions of power- perhaps the others do as well?

[WhiteJoker]

I disagree to comparing the wardens and your position as inquisitor. Wardens are the only ones who can kill an Archdemon, yes, but even then as i said above, you arent given absolute command like we are in our role as Inquisitor. The only real control we have is telling a given nation that we need their assistance and where to meet us no real leadership was given (notice Duncan wasnt given any role in the battle of Ostagar).

 

Even then wardens have extensive knowledge about darkspawn that most others dont have making them the better choice for a leader role when it comes to darkspawn related objectives, the inquisitor on the other hand, as far as we know has no knowledge as to what is going on and the only trait that seperates him from an ordinary soldier is the ability to close tears. That ability in itself gives him no experience to command a seeker let alone an entire militaristic organization from espionage to finances and military strategy, thats too much in my opinion for our character to just be some guy coming off the street, if that were the case have others lead while keeping the PC at their side to close the tear when needed, dont give him an unrivaled military organization that answers to no one, thats asking for a disaster.

Duncan wasn't given control for the same reasons that Loghain got away with barring the Orlesian Grey Wardens from aiding; Loghain possessed sufficient political sway in Ferelden that until a Blight could be confirmed nobody was willing to fight him over it.  Furthermore leadership is not micromanaging, leadership involves delegation, which is much of the reason why Loghain was in command at Ostagar and not Cailan.  Note also that the political strength of the Wardens was in severe decline during Origins, however there is historical precendence of the Wardens leading several armies during prior Blights, especially if the Blight sparked a crisis in that nation (or nations).  This political weakness is important because it's the basis for why you are unable to simply demand that Loghain fulfill Ferelden's obligations to the Wardens; the Wardens are simply not strong enough to enforce the treaties and thus you cannot simply step in and take over, you have to swing political opinion in your favor (through Redcliffe, Allistair, or Anora) so that they'll provide aid.  Similarly you're hampered by the fact that you can't simply go to Orlais and request additional aid since Ferelden only threw off Orlesian occupation relatively recently and most Fereldens are loath to allow any Orlaisian presence in, Blight or no Blight; ignoring this would likely lead to a distracting war between Orlais and Ferelden which would in turn drastically weaken any meaningful opposition to the Blight.  The Warden Treaties allow you to take command but political necessity forces you to compromise; that's what the entire Anora/Allistair thing was about.

 

In contrast, Inquisition is far less ambiguous to the population about it's state of crisis; nobody can deny that giant tears in the Veil opening in the sky is A Very Bad Thing (unlike the events of Origins where Loghain spent a significant amount of time downplaying the Fifth Blight as just a minor darkspawn outbreak and in no way a Blight, which is fairly easy to do considering that nobody would really know about it until a fair number of towns and cities were destroyed and the refugees had time to reach a number of major settlements).  Like in Origins, once people accept that there is a crisis, the day-to-day issues are lessened (but not entirely eliminated) and people are more willing to make concessions to somebody who can provide tangible and beneficial results.  Just like in Origins, nobody really cares about who the person getting those results is (and while you note that sure, Wardens should know more about Darkspawn then most, The Warden knew jackall about them since s/he was fresh out of their Joining) what they care about is results.

 

As for who the Warden was before all of this?  There were a bunch of choices and very few, if any, would have been suitible for trust of any sort.  In the end, it was irrelevant in much the same way that the Inquisitor's will probably be.  Yes, the Inquisitor will end up in charge of the Inquisition, however from everything we've seen there's no indication that they're going to start there at the beginning of the game or even the story: that's just where the majority of it will occur.  The emphasis you're missing is that the game most certainly won't start off with the explosion and then as soon as you walk out of it they make you the Inquisitor, nor is it likely that you're going to end up the Inquisitor the second you stumble over to the rift and close it.  How you become the Inquisitor and gain control of the Inquisition will certainly be part of the story, it's just not the point of it.

[robertthebard]

I'm having a hell of a time getting quotes to work, sorry.  Can't find anything in the forum settings that I'm doing wrong, will have to check, maybe my AV thinks it's a virus.

 

At any rate, again, you were the de facto leader of the armies against the blight based on your qualifications.  What qualifications?  At first, while you're gathering your army, so not much at all.  In fact, depending on your Origin, and how you played it, you may well be a murderer in the eyes of some, after all, dogs are treated better overall in Denerim than Elves are.  You can continue to argue the semantics of it if you wish, but really, I'm not interested in that.  If the Blight could be beaten w/out you, you'd have a better case, it can't.

 

The same is going to apply here.  They can't do it w/out you.  You're going to wind up being the de facto leader of the Inquisition because you are uniquely qualified to handle the situation, just as only Wardens can permanently kill an Archdemon.  Being unique is all the qualities you need to qualify.  You don't need to be some prince/princess, high born noble, or King to satisfy some requirement.  You need to be able to deal with the situation, and build an army to that end.  If you can do these things, then you are de facto leader, because the people are going to follow the one that can get results, not some "puppet master" that claims the credit when it's all done.

[Beerfish]

They can just use the Mass Effect One speech and anywhere it says 'Thresher maw' they can put 'Fade tear' and whenever it says 'Akuze' they can put 'Fereldan'

[Jaulen]

The backstory for the inquisitor can be the same for any race chosen: We all started out as Assistant Nug Wranglers.

[Vearsin]

I wonder, what would they do if the only one to survive the explosion and gain powers was like an 8 year old.

"Hey kid guess what? You have to lead this inquisition thing now"

"....Um....Can you help me find my mom?"

[In Exile]

You forget that in Origins you wander around and basically browbeat everybody into following your lead in the Blight because you're a Grey Warden; the second that they find out you're a Warden nobody bothers to stop and ask if you're the greatest Warden to ever have lived, worshipped in the halls of Weisshaupt, or if you're the scullery boy.  You're a Warden and you had the ancient treaties which compelled all signatories to provide aid for the Wardens in the event of a Blight; that was all the "who are they to demand this?!" justification you needed.  Now getting the various powers to follow through with the old pacts was an entirely different matter but the question of your credentials is largely moot.  This is helped along by the common knowledge that in the event of a Blight a Grey Warden is the only being capable of permanently killing an archdemon.

 

No one except maybe the dwarves gave a flying fudge you called yourself a GW. Your treaties were worthless; no one cared about them either. Everyone straight up believed up you there was a Blight without proof and agreed that they'd help you if you killed their enemies and otherwise ran errands for them. It'll be the same in DA:I. 

[dragondreamer]

I wonder what the Dalish PC was doing there to begin with...  Worst case of wrong place at the wrong time ever?

[LobselVith8]

I wonder what the Dalish PC was doing there to begin with...  Worst case of wrong place at the wrong time ever?

Perhaps it pertained to the elven conflict, eluded to in TME, the threat posed by Lambert's templars to their mages, or the protagonist may have heard about the "apparition" of Shartan in the trials, and was curious.

[DRTJR]

The backstory for the inquisitor can be the same for any race chosen: We all started out as Assistant Nug Wranglers.

was that a Black Cauldron reference?

If so you get 5 internets.

[Jaulen]

was that a Black Cauldron reference?

If so you get 5 internets.

 

 

Yep.

 

Was wondering if anyone would catch that.

[The Elder King]

Perhaps it pertained to the elven conflict, eluded to in TME, the threat posed by Lambert's templars to their mages, or the protagonist may have heard about the "apparition" of Shartan in the trials, and was curious.

Do you mean he/she went alone in Haven for seeing how the meeting went? Because i don't think the dalish (or any other groups, really) would be Invited to a peace meeting between mages and the Chantry.

[SerCambria358]

I'm having a hell of a time getting quotes to work, sorry.  Can't find anything in the forum settings that I'm doing wrong, will have to check, maybe my AV thinks it's a virus.

 

At any rate, again, you were the de facto leader of the armies against the blight based on your qualifications.  What qualifications?  At first, while you're gathering your army, so not much at all.  In fact, depending on your Origin, and how you played it, you may well be a murderer in the eyes of some, after all, dogs are treated better overall in Denerim than Elves are.  You can continue to argue the semantics of it if you wish, but really, I'm not interested in that.  If the Blight could be beaten w/out you, you'd have a better case, it can't.

 

The same is going to apply here.  They can't do it w/out you.  You're going to wind up being the de facto leader of the Inquisition because you are uniquely qualified to handle the situation, just as only Wardens can permanently kill an Archdemon.  Being unique is all the qualities you need to qualify.  You don't need to be some prince/princess, high born noble, or King to satisfy some requirement.  You need to be able to deal with the situation, and build an army to that end.  If you can do these things, then you are de facto leader, because the people are going to follow the one that can get results, not some "puppet master" that claims the credit when it's all done.

You're mixing admiration and inspiration with leadership, being able to close tears doesnt account for all the issues, there are still red templars, a civil war and a Mage/Templar war to deal with. The ability to close tears alone doesnt prepare someone for these issues. No offense but i feel like im going in circles with these explanations 

[LobselVith8]

Do you mean he/she went alone in Haven for seeing how the meeting went? Because i don't think the dalish (or any other groups, really) would be Invited to a peace meeting between mages and the Chantry.

There are free mages among the Dalish, so they may have been given a seat at the table, especially if Lambert's templars are focused on them as well. Fiona could have reached out to the Dalish as potential allies against a common enemy.

[robertthebard]

Only because you continue to go in circles trying to think that the protagonist has to be somebody special, instead of just Johnny on the Spot.  This is your own expectation, and has little to nothing to do with what we have been shown so far concerning the game, and little to nothing to do with most RPGs of the sort, where Johnny on the Spot becomes the big hero of the story, just because they were in the right place at the right time, and happened to survive.  Baldur's Gate would be an exception, since the protagonist was a progeny of a God, but IWD is an example of Johnny on the Spot, the same for NWN and it's expansions, and the eventual sequel, with the funny part of the Johnny on the Spot syndrome being that it happened to you off camera, before the game ever started.  It's a common theme, and it's not going to go away any time soon.

[ADeadDiehard]

I'm guessing every race. just happened to be visiting the city that got destroyed when the Breach was created. Human mages were either apostates or Circle mages at the conference, Elves, Dwarves, and Qunari were just there to trade for supplies.

[The Elder King]

There are free mages among the Dalish, so they may have been given a seat at the table, especially if Lambert's templars are focused on them as well. Fiona could have reached out to the Dalish as potential allies against a common enemy.

Based on what they stated in recent interviews I think the meeting was set with the goal of closing a peace Accord between mages and the Chantry. I don't see why the dalish, the dwarves or the Vashots (or even a non-mage human) would attend the meeting as part of their respective groups. Their presence would be irrelevant for the goal of the meeting.

[SerCambria358]

Only because you continue to go in circles trying to think that the protagonist has to be somebody special, instead of just Johnny on the Spot.  This is your own expectation, and has little to nothing to do with what we have been shown so far concerning the game, and little to nothing to do with most RPGs of the sort, where Johnny on the Spot becomes the big hero of the story, just because they were in the right place at the right time, and happened to survive.  Baldur's Gate would be an exception, since the protagonist was a progeny of a God, but IWD is an example of Johnny on the Spot, the same for NWN and it's expansions, and the eventual sequel, with the funny part of the Johnny on the Spot syndrome being that it happened to you off camera, before the game ever started.  It's a common theme, and it's not going to go away any time soon.

No, because people dont acknowledge what im saying, they continue their point without addressing what i've said. How many RPGs give you a role that encompasses this many aspects of leadership? Most RPGs that turn a nobody into somebody always make it so by performing great feats, never by leading armies right off the bat. Its not an unreasonable expectation especially given the track record of those around us, this sort of character detail in my opinion should make sense in order to buy into our role as an Inquisitor. Is it absolutely necessary? No of course not but it would help immerse players into the role. 

[robertthebard]

But we're not going to be leading armies right off the bat, that I've seen anywhere.  We're going to be doing the same things we did in all the other games I mentioned, working our way up the "importance" ladder.  Once we get there, the reason we're there will be clear, I'd think.

[Cainhurst Crow]

The PC is entirely qualified to lead, with the help of their advisers, by the simple merit that without them, these breaches stay open and no amount of bickering or coercion will change that.

 

Besides, handling logistics and strategy is what our council and regent are for.

[MrMrPendragon]

Maybe the origin story will explain why the Inquisitor is a relevant character before he was even thr inquisitor.

But I guess he'd have to have some sort of importance because firstly, he survived the blast, which I'm pretty sure isn't a matter of luck. Second, he won't even be near the summit in the first place if he didn't have business there.