435 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

I bet you if it was the other way around, most people would not give even a wink.

 

Like I said before. We have Viv, Cass(who seems to be the second command of the Inquisition) and Sera as companions and Leliana as our spy master and most likely Scribbles heading commerce and trace. There is also Morrigan, Celene, Fiona and Justina.

 

That's nine females who have a good role, with males we have the six companions, Cullen for military, Gaspard and possibly the First Warden.That's 9(8 if the First Warden is not involved) males who who have a good role.

[Mes]

I'm out of likes but basically everything Natashina has said is how I feel about it (If I could I would like all your posts but like quota.  ) My disappointment in the 6:3 gender ratio for companions is because for me they are a huge part of the game experience and are mostly with you for much of the game meaning you get to see a lot more of them than any other character. I'd also like to see more diversity among the races of the companions and we've barely seen a female dwarf let alone a female qunari, it would be interesting to see how they view the world too.

 

Also agree with Nashiktal that bioware has done a good job of strong female characters in the past and I'd like to see more of them in the future (Including DAI of course because I'm sure I'll like the girls in this one too). If I had likes left I'd like Nashiktal's post and all of Mes's posts too.  

 

Oh and Oceanicsurvivor's post too... So likes all round    

 

I like you.  

 

I'm just disppointed they're still going with a majority being humans 

 

Me too. Wonder why that decision was made?

[In Exile]

I bet you if it was the other way around, most people would not give even a wink.

 

I wish it was the other way around. I personally connect better with the opposite gender in... pretty much everything. 

[Ianamus]

I bet you if it was the other way around, most people would not give even a wink.

 

Like I said before. We have Viv, Cass(who seems to be the second command of the Inquisition) and Sera as companions and Leliana as our spy master and most likely Scribbles heading commerce and trace. There is also Morrigan, Celene, Fiona and Justina.

 

That's nine females who have a good role, with males we have the six companions, Cullen for military, Gaspard and possibly the First Warden.That's 9(8 if the First Warden is not involved) males who who have a good role.

 

Fiona and Justinia are implied to have died at the beginning of the game, however. Not that I don't agree with you. 

[s-jay2676]

I bet you if it was the other way around, most people would not give even a wink.

 

Like I said before. We have Viv, Cass(who seems to be the second command of the Inquisition) and Sera as companions and Leliana as our spy master and most likely Scribbles heading commerce and trace. There is also Morrigan, Celene, Fiona and Justina.

 

That's nine females who have a good role, with males we have the six companions, Cullen for military, Gaspard and possibly the First Warden.That's 9(8 if the First Warden is not involved) males who who have a good role.

It's about the companions and not the Dragon Age world in general. Companions are the ones you spend most time with, you have most conversations with. As for the advisors, we have to wait and see how they will be integrated into the story. Maybe it will work out fine in the end, maybe not. But at first glance I am slightly disappointed that there are so few female companions.

[Mr.House]

Fiona and Justinia are implied to have died at the beginning of the game, however. Not that I don't agree with you. 

Even if they die, that still puts them at seven, with males at 8(possibly 9)

[karushna5]

I bet you if it was the other way around, most people would not give even a wink.
 
Like I said before. We have Viv, Cass(who seems to be the second command of the Inquisition) and Sera as companions and Leliana as our spy master and most likely Scribbles heading commerce and trace. There is also Morrigan, Celene, Fiona and Justina.
 
That's nine females who have a good role, with males we have the six companions, Cullen for military, Gaspard and possibly the First Warden.That's 9(8 if the First Warden is not involved) males who who have a good role.

Except Morrigan, Celene, Fiona, and Justina and leliana are not companions. We will see them to a minimum, and no one cares much about minor characters. No one obssesses about them quite the same way as companions, Cullen was a bit of an exception due to his romance possibility in Origins.

Also your numbers kinda proove my point. 3 major characters 6 maybe 5 minor characters are women
Vs 6 major characters and 2 minor characters are guys.

The ones that get characterization, in depth conversations, and companionship to your character will be the major characters. Women in charge doesnt matter, without depth. I would gladly trade all the minor characters for one of the guys to gender bend.

But I can promise you, that if it were reversed, there would be an uproar, because it is never done, there are Always more men in every video game and even mentioning on the forums more woman presence in any part of it leads to cries of betraying the "straight male gamer"

Also Origins had... Logain a man, arl Eamon a man, duncan a man, prince Bhelen and Harrowmont both men, Zathrien a man, lady of the forest a woman, Herren and Wade ( both men), Arianni a woman, anora a woman, Riordan a man. First Enchanter a man, Knight captain a man, lady Isolde a woman, Teagan a man, Sandal and his father Bodahn ( both men) there are even more minor characters like ser Cauthrien and Jarvia but that means counting all of the plethora of secondary male characters and that takes a long time

So if Origins can have both all the side characters in power be men ( and all the women characters are fighting a man in power) AND companions be mostly male, why cant we have a 4/5 split (favoring men) and have mostly women in power?

[The Elder King]

@karushna5: you might be wrong about Leliana. She's a member of the Inquistion and one of the three major non-followers. Considering that one of those three (Cullen) is confirmed to be a LI, is likely that those three will get dialogues in the Inquisition's keeps and bases as well. And it seems that they'll follow the Inquisitor event in camps, sice Leliana seems to appear in one occasion like that in the trailer.
Granted, it's not on the same level as companions, and we don't know how much dialogue they'll get, but they're not on the same level of Celene, Justinia, etc.
I'm not debating if it was good or bad to have 3 female companions (I'd have liked another one). I'm just saying that Leliana and SG will likely get more screentime than the other female non-followers.

[Mr.House]

Except Morrigan, Celene, Fiona, and Justina and leliana are not companions. We will see them to a minimum, and no one cares much about minor characters. No one obssesses about them quite the same way as companions, Cullen was a bit of an exception due to his romance possibility in Origins.

Also your numbers kinda proove my point. 3 major characters 6 maybe 5 minor characters are women
Vs 6 major characters and 2 minor characters are guys.

The ones that get characterization, in depth conversations, and companionship to your character will be the major characters. Women in charge doesnt matter, without depth. I would gladly trade all the minor characters for one of the guys to gender bend.

But I can promise you, that if it were reversed, there would be an uproar, because it is never done, there are Always more men in every video game and even mentioning on the forums more woman presence in any part of it leads to cries of betraying the "straight male gamer"

Also Origins had... Logain a man, arl Eamon a man, duncan a man, prince Bhelen and Harrowmont both men, Zathrien a man, lady of the forest a woman, Herren and Wade ( both men), Arianni a woman, anora a woman, Riordan a man. First Enchanter a man, Knight captain a man, lady Isolde a woman, Teagan a man, Sandal and his father Bodahn ( both men) there are even more minor characters like ser Cauthrien and Jarvia but that means counting all of the plethora of secondary male characters and that takes a long time

So if Origins can have both all the side characters in power be men ( and all the women characters are fighting a man in power) AND companions be mostly male, why cant we have a 4/5 split (favoring men) and have mostly women in power?

Where did I say it's betraying the straight male gamer? I'm not even straight, I simply have no issue and there reason for doing it seems fine to me. ALso funny you seem to think Leliana and Morrigan will be minor characters when Leliana is our spy master and Morrigan is Celenes arcane adviser.

[Goku beats superman]

ok i gotta how is bioware being unfair twords any gender. that was not what i was trying to say at all.  some of you are to worried about gender.

[karushna5]

They arent companions, thus they just cant get the same kind of screen time companions get they are then minor characters, the same way Anora and Bodahn are minor characters even though one is always with you and the other is a huge part of the plot. I did not mean you were the one complaining. My comment was you said no one would complain if it were reversed and I am adamant it would be much bigger than this.

"Straight Male Gamer" is more an implication of the occasional gamer who feels encroached by women and gay characters. Not you, specifically, as you are not being rude or entitled. It is a reference to one guy who came on here to complain about Bioware not catering to their main fanbase "the straight male gamer".

I am also not straight. What I am feeling now, is if Straight people each had 3 people to romance, 3 straight guys, and 3 straight women, and then there was one minor lesbian, one minor gay guy, and 2 bi people of each.

In short Mass Effect 3, if the straight female romances had stayed.

[Iakus]

Except Morrigan, Celene, Fiona, and Justina and leliana are not companions. We will see them to a minimum, and no one cares much about minor characters. No one obssesses about them quite the same way as companions, Cullen was a bit of an exception due to his romance possibility in Origins.

Also your numbers kinda proove my point. 3 major characters 6 maybe 5 minor characters are women
Vs 6 major characters and 2 minor characters are guys.

The ones that get characterization, in depth conversations, and companionship to your character will be the major characters. Women in charge doesnt matter, without depth. I would gladly trade all the minor characters for one of the guys to gender bend.

But I can promise you, that if it were reversed, there would be an uproar, because it is never done, there are Always more men in every video game and even mentioning on the forums more woman presence in any part of it leads to cries of betraying the "straight male gamer"

Also Origins had... Logain a man, arl Eamon a man, duncan a man, prince Bhelen and Harrowmont both men, Zathrien a man, lady of the forest a woman, Herren and Wade ( both men), Arianni a woman, anora a woman, Riordan a man. First Enchanter a man, Knight captain a man, lady Isolde a woman, Teagan a man, Sandal and his father Bodahn ( both men) there are even more minor characters like ser Cauthrien and Jarvia but that means counting all of the plethora of secondary male characters and that takes a long time

So if Origins can have both all the side characters in power be men ( and all the women characters are fighting a man in power) AND companions be mostly male, why cant we have a 4/5 split (favoring men) and have mostly women in power?

 

Did people not care for Samantha Traynor?  Steve Cortez?  Kelly Chambers?  Karin Chakwas?  Joker?

 

I'm assuming that all twelve characters we saw in that lineup are going to be major characters in DAI.  And so by that count there will be seven male and five female characters (or six male and five female if you count Cole as a male-appearing but ultimately genderless Fade spirit).  Not perfectly balanced, but not awful.  

[karushna5]

Did people not care for Samantha Traynor?  Steve Cortez?  Kelly Chambers?  Karin Chakwas?  Joker?
 
I'm assuming that all twelve characters we saw in that lineup are going to be major characters in DAI.  And so by that count there will be seven male and five female characters (or six male and five female if you count Cole as a male-appearing but ultimately genderless Fade spirit).  Not perfectly balanced, but not awful.

People liked them but they were under developed. Samantha you cant even say goodbye to. Other than Citadel she is the one character you cant go off and do stuff with. Also, you miss tons of cut scenes that would have been romantic or not, because they werent there. They were secondary characters, and were treated like it.

Its just a fact that without being companions, they just dont get the same characterization or time, that makes them minor characters. Seneshal Varel no matter how liked will never be to the same caliber as Nathaniel. Bodahn despite being in 3 games is not comparable to Isabela. Minor characters are great and all, but once again my point is why cant the companions be 4/5 with most of the Minor companions women, when in a previous game they were mostly men companions AND had mostly male non companions?

[frankf43]

I don't buy this we are getting less female companions because there are so many strong female characters in the game. In DA:O nearly all of the strong NPC's where male but that didn't mean that the female companions outnumber the male ones 2/1.

 

I can understand that after they looked at all the possible companions that this nine stood out regardless of gender or race. I have to ask though, why did those nine stand out?  What was wrong with making Scribe girl a companion? Why have we never had a female Dwarf as a companion? And with all the hype that has been on this forum about female Qunari why couldn't they have tried to incorporate one as a companion?

 

I really like the look of the group that has been assembled. There is no one that I would come out and say that I don't want them at the moment, it's just that a 2/1 gender split is really disappointing.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Personally I get uncomfortable once the discussion about new companions is splitting the into a mathematic expression for the same of equality. That makes it seem mass produced rather than an organic extension of the writing process. Splitting nine companions evenly among the classes makes sense, splitting them evenly between all races and genders sounds forced and IMO contrived.

Not to say I don't want to explore the other races, or that I'm not bummed by the lack of female characters. I was really hoping for a female qunari companion for the sheer fascination of what that would entail and the interesting stories that would come with it. Ah well maybe in an expansion or sequel.

As a side extension of the conversation I do believe there is a need for more strong female characters. Bioware has done a great job for dragon age so far. Although I don't think an increase in good female characters will happen organically until more women are propagated throughout the gaming industry. Until that happens (and maybe even after) this will be a subject that gets the constant go around.

This. Storytelling shouldn't be about making sure you have as even a ratio as possible, it should be about telling the best story and including what characters you need to make that happen, whether they be male, female, human, elf, dwarf, or qunari.

 

Everyone keep in mind that YOUR character, the MAIN character, and the HERO can be any gender and any race (except for giant). You can make that female qunari you crave. Or wait until DA4.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I'm also disappointed that there aren't more female companions, but that disappointment will be mitigated if NPCs like Leliana and Scribe Girl get a lot of screen time and if a lot of the important characters outside the Inquisition are women. (We already know about Celene and Morrigan, hopefully there are a lot more.) I'm reserving final judgement about the gender balance of DAI until after I've played the game.

 

As for female Qunari, I'd like to see one as a companion in future as well. Albeit not for the same reasons as the OP.

[PSUHammer]

Sometimes I shake my head at the minutia this forum gets bogged down into.  At some point, instead of bickering about character counts and representation, can't we just enjoy the game and story?

 

I don't recall these types of conversations happening with Baldur's Gate, although I could be wrong...

[LinksOcarina]

The disappointment among gender lines is frankly ridiculous to me. This is not a math equation, a false sense of equality based on the sheer number of characters per gender is a bad way to think this over.

 

If you start forcing equal numbers it means nothing,  it just means you are hitting a quota. It is pathetic to think that such thinking really means perfect representation. 

[CronoDragoon]

This doesn't sit well with me.  So, you have all these powerful female NPCs, all of which I'm aware of.   However, these aren't going to be my closest friends and allies that travel with me throughout the game.  That's what bothers me about this.

 

After thinking about it I will say this: I support the reasoning behind who gets chosen that Mr. Gaider outlines: the most interesting companion stories should get in. However, if game in and game out, companion males tend to outnumber females because the most interesting companion stories tend to feature males, then that may be something worth looking at and adjusting.

 

I don't actually think this is a problem with Dragon Age thus far, though, since Origins and DA2 had equal representation or, given an odd number, as equal as can be. But I do think in the long run it would sit better with fans if there were games where males outnumbered females, games where females outnumbered males, and games where it was about equal.

[frankf43]

Sometimes I shake my head at the minutia this forum gets bogged down into.  At some point, instead of bickering about character counts and representation, can't we just enjoy the game and story?

 

I don't recall these types of conversations happening with Baldur's Gate, although I could be wrong...

I don't think there was a forum like this back when BG came out. I can't remember if I even had an internet connection back then. I know I had one when NWN came out but I doubt many people had one back in the BG days.

[Mihura]

It is easy to say it is not about numbers or balance because people tell a different story when it is about romance. The rage about not all companions being accessible is about what? wait let me guess numbers and equal treatment of sexuality and romance, why is gender any different?

[LinksOcarina]

It is easy to say it not about numbers or balance because people tell a different story when it is about romance. The rage about not all companions being accessible is about what? wait let me guess numbers and equal treatment of sexuality and romance, why is gender any different?

 

 

Because people think they know what they are talking about.

 

Case en point, they released the cover art, and its badass in many ways. However, some outlets praised them for going gender neutral on the cover art, such as Forbes and GayGamer. That became the center of the story, because to those groups it's a big deal.

 

But it shouldn't be. The reason it is made a big deal is two-fold. One, because people around the internet are on a faux-equality kick, presuming they understand the rudimentary studies about gender and sexuality, societal differences, and psychology on the subject. None of us have training in any of these areas, and those who do take it to a higher level in academic studies, while we armchair quarterback on the sidelines.

 

Two, because those writing those articles are pushing an agenda. Basically saying they are fighting the good fight and proving "we are right,"giving out fake gold stars for those who play that game, and saying that the older ways "one male character on the cover" is always a bad thing, which is very narrow-thinking considering the makeup of your game.

 

I am all for equality, but the more it is pushed and highlighted, the more I feel like the industry by and large is insulting my intelligence. Much like this conversation along gender lines, it shouldn't matter because we should all know better that such accusations are false. What matters more is the fact that there are females involved in the plot of the game, and those females, companions or not, will have a part to play in this, and are not caricatures so far as we know. 

[MrMrPendragon]

I doubt Bioware did an uneven number of companions without good reason. Some people make it sound like Bioware did it because they're all about male supremacy. Yes I'm a little bummed that a qunari female won't be a companion, but I'm not about to act like a highly disappointed parent.

Besides, splitting the races and gender evenly for companions sounds a bit forced. As if the Inquisitor chose his/her companions knowing that a critic beyond the 4th wall is watching every move he/she makes, constantly reminding him/her about gender equality. The Inquisitor doesn't have hiring quota.

Hey, maybe the females will be strong supporting characters that the uneven split won't even matter. I'm just happy to play the game, even if I'd only have 2 or 3 possible romances, me playing a straight male Inquisitor and all.

[karushna5]

This. Storytelling shouldn't be about making sure you have as even a ratio as possible, it should be about telling the best story and including what characters you need to make that happen, whether they be male, female, human, elf, dwarf, or qunari.
 
Everyone keep in mind that YOUR character, the MAIN character, and the HERO can be any gender and any race (except for giant). You can make that female qunari you crave. Or wait until DA4.

The issue with this, is that saying just good writing is that, why cant it be good writing and equal? Why do most stories just happen to be better with mostly men? Why do stories just happen to be better with just straight people? Why do most stories just happen to be better with all White people? So many stories "are the best story needed" by exclusion. At some point you just realize that isnt the case, its because its the way its always been done.

Also, I am saying this now. Solas could be just as awesome if he were a she. Dorian could have been as awesome. Iron Bull, Cole, grey Warden. The question is why it just so happens the best for the job is what is always done. And the fact it isnt. You have to push yourself sometimes to tell better stories. When I read books, I read them out loud and switch genders of most of the cast. Other than pregnancy, it works pretty well, and you get cool, awesome characters that are much more dynamic and unique. Why? Because any story can be a guys, but so few are allowed to be women's.

When a guy is strong, no questioning, no issue. Aveline it was a thing with her and her femininity. All three female characters were gendered to the sky and back. Fenris, Anders, Varric ( other than the chest hair) were not gendered. I had a hard time imagining the appeal of Fenris until I imagined him as a girl. Not just because i am a lesbian, but because I would love for a female character like him. Honestly change his voice actor and you could have a female character just fine, no issues. Almost word for word dialogue.

( honestly I was happy with how it was done in DA2, but there are always gruffs which is to show my point)

But that isnt a girls story. Men get stories, straight people get romances, women get women stories, LGBT get LGBT romances. The secret to equality I think is to realize there isnt a big difference. Women can still be feminine, and guys can still be masculine. But their stories shouldnt surround that fact.

[Mihura]

Because people think they know what they are talking about.

 

Case en point, they released the cover art, and its badass in many ways. However, some outlets praised them for going gender neutral on the cover art, such as Forbes and GayGamer. That became the center of the story, because to those groups it's a big deal.

 

But it shouldn't be. The reason it is made a big deal is two-fold. One, because people around the internet are on a faux-equality kick, presuming they understand the rudimentary studies about gender and sexuality, societal differences, and psychology on the subject. None of us have training in any of these areas, and those who do take it to a higher level in academic studies, while we armchair quarterback on the sidelines.

 

Two, because those writing those articles are pushing an agenda. Basically saying they are fighting the good fight and proving "we are right,"giving out fake gold stars for those who play that game, and saying that the older ways "one male character on the cover" is always a bad thing, which is very narrow-thinking considering the makeup of your game.

 

I am all for equality, but the more it is pushed and highlighted, the more I feel like the industry by and large is insulting my intelligence. Much like this conversation along gender lines, it shouldn't matter because we should all know better that such accusations are false. What matters more is the fact that there are females involved in the plot of the game, and those females, companions or not, will have a part to play in this, and are not caricatures so far as we know. 

 

True but why is bioware having panels about social progress and "devs need to do more!", you just cannot do that and than say oh ups it was a creative decision. I agree with creative decisions but than be honest about what you really think it is a priority.