68 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Massively, there are times I wonder how much difference there is between your galaxy and Xil's. You choose to elevate humanity instead of the Asari (the portion that wasn't pre-emptively exterminated during the war, anyway) and are a bit quieter about what you do (no seeker swarms to pacify demonstrations or indoctrinating dissenters). I'm curious how you'd define the distinction beyond that.

 

Don't really know. Personally, I don't really care either. I'm not technically elevating humanity in the same way Xil elevates the Asari (where they essentially fill a bourgeoisie role over the other proletariat races). I'm keeping humanity just ahead of the curve enough to become the major player. To anyone else that wasn't me, it would look like humanity was recovering from the war a bit better than everyone else, and basically being more of a beacon for other aliens to follow the... resilience of humanity. Alien interests wouldn't necessarily be squashed for human convenience like Xil's either. I'd have a deft enough hand to make it seem like humanity were coming back stronger than ever; it wouldn't necessarily be difficult either. The Citadel is now parked for the foreseeable future over Earth, and with the relay network down for a few months as they're rebooted, it gets the obligatory rebuilding and revitalization, along with the benefit of being probably the single largest hub of Reaper tech to exploit in the galaxy. It wouldn't necessarily be difficult to see how humanity wouldn't be in an advantageous position. I'd be working more to keep humanity on track as it shoots off on its own than actively pulling or pushing it or being the foot that kicks the engine. That said, I'd be having the subtle ability to curve said track to whatever direction I wanted. I'd take, wide, easy turns, or rather, shooting a dead straight azimuth that lightly compensates and readjusts for the curve of the magnetic field until you end up in the end zone of where I'd like to be.

[KaiserShep]

In my eyes, Sanctuary had justifiable utility.

As for diplomacy, the whole point of it is the exact same as violence. You use it to get what you want and/or need. Doesn't matter how you do it.

We actually got more out of leviathan spheres than we did out of Sanctuary. In the end, nothing really became of the intel. It didn't help with the crucible and it ultimately failed because the reapers were not only immune, they can retake their thralls.

Even if they get points for ideas, they lose many more on application.

[DeathScepter]

I do appreciate where ME is coming from.  Keeping Humanity strong regardless of the other species is very important to me.  Strength in diversity in how Star Fleet work is a beautiful ideal which i do like too. without a strong humanity, Humanity Strength regardless  of the species(Cerberus ideal) or Strength in Diversity(Startrek/StarFleet ideal) needs to have a Strong Humanity as a base in order for them to work.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

We actually got more out of leviathan spheres than we did out of Sanctuary. In the end, nothing really became of the intel. It didn't help with the crucible and it ultimately failed because the reapers were bit only immune, they can retake their thralls.

 

I follow the intent BW put into Sanctuary a bit more closely; As in, I'm sure Sanctuary was supposed to be a place where 'unspeakable horrors and atrocities' were committed on sapient beings, but also supposed to be a place where a truly useful countermeasure or advantage was created or discovered against the Reapers. Despite the breathtakingly flawed execution, the elements to this are still in the game; Shepard and Hackett both remark on the utility of the information discovered there. I think there might have been another CB choice there had there been more time and/or thought and effort put into the mission, allowing you to decide whether the ends justified the means there or not.

 

Granted though, Leviathan did make the whole sequence rather redundant. Now instead of fulfilling an actual tactical/strategic resource, all it does is cull an unstated amount of excess wartime population. It's a lot less impressive because of that. IMO, it still does something useful, but only marginally.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I do appreciate where ME is coming from.  Keeping Humanity strong regardless of the other species is very important to me.  Strength in diversity in how Star Fleet work is a beautiful ideal which i do like too. without a strong humanity, Humanity Strength regardless  of the species(Cerberus ideal) or Strength in Diversity(Startrek/StarFleet ideal) needs to have a Strong Humanity as a base in order for them to work.

 

That's where I come from. I want humans to be strong whether they're standing with aliens or against them. I'd rather stand with them and be their allies and companions in a cooperative collectivist union, but if the need arises, I want to make sure there's a strong bottom line.

[DeinonSlayer]

That's where I come from. I want humans to be strong whether they're standing with aliens or against them. I'd rather stand with them and be their allies and companions in a cooperative collectivist union, but if the need arises, I want to make sure there's a strong bottom line.

That much I can certainly stand by. Every species acts in its own interest. It's no sin for humanity to do the same.

The "we do what we must because we can" aspect of some of the things you've advocated is where we diverge.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

That much I can certainly stand by. Every species acts in its own interest. It's no sin for humanity to do the same.

 

Hell, it doesn't even necessarily have to be a standoff with the other species. It can be some kind of galactic disaster or problem or whatever. I'd advocate wo rking with other species and pooling resources to solve the problem, but at the same time, I'm going to be having a human survivalist initiative ready and waiting in the back. Regardless of the outcome and whatever its effects on the galaxy are, I'll know I have some kind of human continuity plan that's running to ensure that humanity survives (or tried their damndest too). If the other races are smart, they'll be doing the same. 

 

That's what TIM's rationale was: He outright told Saren to do whatever he had to do to prepare his people (the Turians) for whatever was coming at the end of that arc.

[DeinonSlayer]

Hell, it doesn't even necessarily have to be a standoff with the other species. It can be some kind of galactic disaster or problem or whatever. I'd advocate wo rking with other species and pooling resources to solve the problem, but at the same time, I'm going to be having a human survivalist initiative ready and waiting in the back. Regardless of the outcome and whatever its effects on the galaxy are, I'll know I have some kind of human continuity plan that's running to ensure that humanity survives (or tried their damndest too). If the other races are smart, they'll be doing the same.

That's what TIM's rationale was: He outright told Saren to do whatever he had to do to prepare his people (the Turians) for whatever was coming at the end of that arc.

Fully agree.

And as for the "refugees" we often butt heads over, as I see it, they can find ways to make themselves useful (or at the very least self-sufficient and not in the way of the people trying to fix things), find someone who will guide them towards doing so (drafting, recruitment, volunteer scrap drives, sharecropping, whatever), or be left to fend for themselves.

I read that in the wake of a disaster, emergency teams typically leave (low-skill) slots open because roughly ten percent of those affected are going to insist on helping out, and will get in the way trying to do so unless there's a job kept open for them to do. These same people will also typically leave refugee housing at the first opportunity. By contrast, the portion at the bottom are content to sit on their asses and have food shoveled at them until they're forcibly evicted from refugee housing long after the disaster has passed.

[CrutchCricket]

As far as I'm concerned, post-war Cerberus is dead and buried. Its resources gone, its people disappeared its trappings and facets utterly purged.

 

At least publicly.

 

In the shadows a new organization emerges, one who takes the ideals of human advancement and protection but leaves behind the idiocy and pointless malevolence. In time it grows even beyond that, to one that preserves galactic stability and order while promoting advancement and stopping threats both internal and external before they even happen. At first it simply doesn't exist for anyone that cares to ask. Eventually it'll continue to not exist by weaving itself into the very fabric of the galaxy's socio-political climate at ever level. In time it won't just protect and manipulate the galaxy. It'll be the galaxy.

 

That's the goal anyway. Other things do happen. The future is not set.

 

My headcanon aside I fully believe Cerberus-type (or better yet STG or Shadow Broker type) organizations will rise again and again. In many forms and from many species. But the identity and association of Cerberus must be purged. The idea of Cerberus has failed. It's burned and will never work again. The ideas the idea of Cerberus was supposed to safeguard (advancement, protection) those are what endure. And that and only that is what any new organization should focus on.

[KaiserShep]

They might want to dump the name as well as the logo though. I imagine post-war, the Cerberus logo would reach swastika level taboo.

 

[cue Shepard scraping logo off the beloved Harrier]

[Barquiel]

I doubt they have a future in the MEU (unless Bioware writes a midquel, I guess). With the death of the Illusive Man, most of his agents being killed or arrested and no financial backing Cerberus would be in a state of total and utter chaos. We know Cerberus operateed in self contained cells that never knew what the other cells were doing. The only man who could ever see the big picture was...the Illusive Man. Sure, racism will never go away, but Cerberus is destroyed...and any successor organisation won't get the financial support or enough recruits (especially scientists, thugs like Kai Leng are probably easier to find) to become a serious threat again, at least in the foreseeable future.

And we've fought more than enough Cerberus troops already. I don't think we'll see Cerberus or Cerberus 2.0 again in the next games...

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

In any way? Would the return of the Alliance mean that too?

 

That is hardly a good comparrison. The Alliance is the goverment that more or less represents humanity in the ME franchise, just as the Republics represent the Asari, Union for the Salarians, etc. They are major factions that are inheritely tied up the species' lore. Even ignoring that, Cerberus is more or less always gone as opposed to the Alliance by the end of ME3.

 

And yes, if we do get a sequel, I do think adding Cerberus is a terrible idea. The original trilogy by the end have gotten polluted by Cerberus' overbearing presence to the point they essentially overshadowed the Reapers as antagonists. And let us not even get started on all those retarded reveals Mac Walters have made in the comics that turned Cerberus into space-Illuminati, having pulled the strings in every sub-plot ever.

 

Let us not cram Cerberus back into the story, I am sick of them and I am sure others feel that way too.

[von uber]

This is where I realize my headcanon still pales compared to some others.

 

Ha, you are not the only one. All I have is Shep getting picked up from the citadel, that's enough for me.

[KaiserShep]

That is hardly a good comparrison. The Alliance is the goverment that more or less represents humanity in the ME franchise, just as the Republics represent the Asari, Union for the Salarians, etc. They are major factions that are inheritely tied up the species' lore. Even ignoring that, Cerberus is more or less always gone as opposed to the Alliance by the end of ME3.

 

And yes, if we do get a sequel, I do think adding Cerberus is a terrible idea. The original trilogy by the end have gotten polluted by Cerberus' overbearing presence to the point they essentially overshadowed the Reapers as antagonists. And let us not even get started on all those retarded reveals Mac Walters have made in the comics that turned Cerberus into space-Illuminati, having pulled the strings in every sub-plot ever.

 

Let us not cram Cerberus back into the story, I am sick of them and I am sure others feel that way too.

 

I agree that involving Cerberus in any way in a new game would be a huge mistake. Any potential they may have had was spent in the trilogy as it is. That being said, I don't really want to see any kind of equivalents under another name either. (HAIL HYDRA) It would just seem like a cheap knockoff to have a shadow organization again so we have human mooks that are more than just mercs (HAIL HYDRA).

[Barquiel]

Ha, you are not the only one. All I have is Shep getting picked up from the citadel, that's enough for me.

Same here. Apart from Shepards survival (and maybe some blue children) I only headcanon little things...and everything else will only lead to disappointment anyway. The deverlopers obviously can't respect every abstruse headcanon in potential sequels. The official epilogues also work well enough for me (no dark age, humans/turians/asari/etc. are working together to rebuild, the fates of our ME2 squadmates).

[FlyingSquirrel]

If the remnants of Cerberus didn't do a pretty thorough wipe of the information on Cronos Station before the Alliance got there, it might well be possible to dismantle Cerberus down to most of its smallest cells, though the powers that be in the galaxy may be too busy with other priorities to worry about Cerberus too much as long as they aren't hindering the rebuilding effort. Which I imagine they may not. Even if, say, 50-60 cells still have most of their people alive and well, they've probably heard about the capture of Cronos Station and may assume that Cerberus is gone and/or decide that they're done working for them and focus on the more immediate practical concerns.

 

As for whether the "idea" of Cerberus will survive as TIM suggests, I'm sure there will still be some people out there with attitudes similar to his (though maybe not as many in a Synthesis scenario as opposed to Destroy or Control). I doubt that they'd call themselves "Cerberus" any more even if they did make use of some of the organization's assets, simply because Cerberus is probably discredited in the eyes of most people. Even humans who are skeptical of aliens would likely see Cerberus as unreliable kooks at best, given their actions in the war, and humans who are more alien-friendly and multilateralist probably see their actions as treasonous in the middle of a war for the galaxy's survival.

 

A Destroy scenario probably leaves the door the most "open" to a Cerberus resurgence. I don't see Synthesis as instantly changing people's personalities or thought processes, but it does seem likely to reduce interspecies conflict (and with it the perceived need for groups like Cerberus), and in a Control scenario, they'd have to be careful about provoking an intervention from AI-Shepard and the Reapers.

[Propelled Rage]

Can we please bury Cerberus like forever?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

 

Can we please bury Cerberus like forever?

 

 

I'll make a concession here: personal opinions of the group aside, from a meta-perspective, they're an exhausted resource. BW has milked them for all their worth and then some. ME3 should really take a look at who it makes as the main antagonists of the story. And they're still being shoe-horned into stories that don't need them. Worse still, beyond Miranda and Jacob, they're just being used as generic muahaha evil villains for reasons.

[shodiswe]

There is no future for Cerberus. Some might try to salvage some of their resources.

But noone would find it beneficial to holdon to the name. Unless they use it to deflect attention. But in general, using something that hated to avoid attention is a bad idea since it attracts more attention which increases the risk of discovery.

[xeNNN]

HAIL HYDRA

I just smiled for 2 reasons. 

 

1) because I love Marvel movies + shield. 

 

2) becuase I just imagined star brat saying "HAIL HYDRA" as soon as you get to the top floor in the citadel instead of saying "wake up" lmao.

[Steelcan]

Bury the name and symbol.

 

The ideas of human ascension can stay

[ImaginaryMatter]

Bury the name and symbol.

 

The ideas of human ascension can stay

 

As long as it's not central to the story in any way. We really don't need another plot that Mary Sues the entire species.

[Han Shot First]

I hope that Cerberus is dead and gone for good at the end of Mass Effect 3.

 

Besides the writing team being overly fixated on Cerberus and giving it so ridiculously bloated a role in the series that I no longer wish to see it in any game, book, or comic, it would not make much sense for them to return post-ME3. Their role as indoctrinated allies of the Reapers, who nearly brought extinction upon their own species, should have all but guaranteed that they'd have no future in the post-war.

 

That isn't to say that there shouldn't be human supremacists. Just that Cerberus should have been replaced by other organization(s) whose history isn't quite as tainted and whose reputation isn't quite as ruined. 

[SwobyJ]

Cerberus is humanity!

[Fixers0]

It's always good to keep the war on terror going.