58 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Because Jesus hates pleasure for its own sake. However he is a HUGE fan of suffering & bloodshed. 

 

Jesus was a pacifist. 

[Jorji Costava]

A couple things going on here, I think:

 

First, there's what Vergil mentioned: In the US, you can have a film which features a dude's heart getting ripped out (Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom) be rated PG, but show one nipple for a half-second and it's a guaranteed R rating. I hate to generalize about all of the US, but a certain prudishness about sexuality does seem to be more prevalent here than in say, much of Western Europe.

 

Second, there is a perception (not saying it's true) among non-gamers that gamers are losers who are utterly incompetent as regards relationships and sexuality. As such, they're bound to use sex and sexuality in games as a surrogate for the real thing. Perhaps this perception leads to a corresponding fear on the part of developers as far as including such content.

 

Lastly, there is a legitimate question as far as whether or not it's a good idea at all to "game-ify" sexuality. Are sexuality and intimacy the kind of things we want to think of in terms of "win states" and "fail states," or "achievements?" I tend to doubt it (the "romance cards" of The Witcher are a good example of how problematic this can get). Making something into a game means systematizing it within a framework of defined rules, and perhaps this is just something that's far easier with violence than sexuality.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Because Jesus hates pleasure for its own sake. However he is a HUGE fan of suffering & bloodshed.

Also getting into Kung-fu fights with the Greek Pantheon.

Spoiler

Not featured is the previous scene where Jesus gets off the cross and delivers sick roundhouse kicks to Apollo and Hercules...no...seriously.

[Sifr]

It's a weird issue and I agree a cultural one. Britain and Europe are for more comfortable with sex and less so with violence, but it seems to be the other way around in America, with Game of Thrones being pretty much the only example of a major American show (with tons of British actors, so maybe that's why) that bucks this trend by featuring both prominently.

 

It's worth noting that while Dragon Age itself has a lot of violence in the game, it's rarely willing to show violence to characters that we have come to know. We cut away from Loghain's decapitation and never see his body afterwards, we only see the Viscount's severed head and not the Arishok performing the decapitation, yet beheading Darkspawn and enemies in combat is common. I suspect it's because we as an audience are more comfortable with the idea of brutality in combat where our heroes are fighting for their lives, while the others are premeditated acts of execution or murder.

 

Even in Mass Effect where enemies were getting heads blown off left and right, none of our squadmates ever suffered as gruesome a death as our enemies. Look at Garrus, the guy took a freaking rocket to the face and only ended up losing a ton of blood and having a badly scarred mandible afterwards!

 

I think we do need that sort of emotional disconnect between those we differentiate between friend and foe, else we'd end up being too depressed to finish the game after watching our favourite characters suffer unimaginably. How many people decided to (or thought about) quitting Game of Thrones after watching the Red Wedding?

 

But as for the nudity issue, it's really not that a big deal for me as a player or affects my enjoyment of the romance. I'd suggest that we take a page from ME's book and simply have tastefully covered nudity, since even the devs have said they weren't fond of the the magic underwear in Origins. As cliche as they are, modesty bedsheets would also be fine.

 

One thing I would suggest against is magic fast-changing from those who are out of the bed post-romance scene. Fenris back in his armour in DA2, Shepard being fully clothed while Ash/Kaidan/Liara were still in bed in ME1, Tali somehow managing to put that entire suit back on in ME3... it just makes the scene kinda hilarious, as if their goal the entire time was to just hit it and quit it immediately afterwards. Guess we know who aren't snugglers, eh?

 

Just make them either shirtless or still getting dressed, it'd solve that problem so much. Ultimately, I think the level of nudity is fine as it is, it just needs some tweaking here and there to improve the way it's presented.

[metatheurgist]

Have you not heard the pronunciation of the letter 'z', or the shortening of mathematics by many Australians? And what about the misuse of plurals (although, Americans probably misuse plurals too, even in their own version of English)? And then there's Australia's pop culture. And the weird dislike of the French (although the British don't like the French either, and we're mostly descendants of them... so maybe that's a moot point).

Language is a tricksy one. Language naturally evolves and changes with use. The English we use would not be understandable by English speakers a mere few centuries ago. I prefer language to be as simple as possible so I've adopted some Americanisms myself. Language sorts itself out and becomes the norm, there is no standard. I'm looking forward to using 'of' as a truncation of 'have'

As for pop culture, well if the Brits actually produce some I'll consider supporting it. Dr Who and Sherlock are quite popular, but they are dwarfed by the output of America.

I have nothing against the French. I like their fries...

[superdeathdealer14]

Damn! You're lucky! I live in the country of wannabe Americans: Australia.

 

We aren't that bad, okay that was a lie, yep we're wannabe Americans.

[Lotion Soronarr]

What I find it strange is that you kid can walk down the street and see playboy nudes on the newstand and lingery models on big big commercial pannels - but a boob in a movie? SHOCK AND HORROR.

 

 

Now I don't like blatant fanservice. I don't like nudity for nudities sake. But I'm not against it either.

You don't go playing games for nudity (unless you're playing a p0rn game I guess)

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

This is more of an issue in the United States, here in Europe a movie can often contain full frontal nudity and/or sex scenes and still be rated PG-13.

However we(or at least the rating agencies) are extremely squeamish when it comes to blood and gore. The polar opposite of the US in that sense.

 

That's why about half of the teenagers in Europe are slu,ts?

 

Embrace the Islam and Hijab will protect your minds!

[spinachdiaper]

the reason why sex is bad and violence is tolerated is the fact that every human being that ever lived is just simply a dumb monkey trying to live in absolute denial of the fear of death and the utter pointlessness of life it's self

[Sifr]

 

As for pop culture, well if the Brits actually produce some I'll consider supporting it. Dr Who and Sherlock are quite popular, but they are dwarfed by the output of America.
 

 

It's because we Brits prefer quality over quantity, mate! 

 

But seriously, I fear the topic of this thread is devolving somewhat, can we remain on track guys?

[Zubi Fett]

Well,

 

Let me reassure the point: 

 

What I was pointing out was not a "request" for pure porn on the game. What I'm pointing out is the direct avoid of nudity. 

 

For example, as said above, in some EU movies nudity is far more open and is nothing close to porn. What my point is; what's the problem if you see a mans parts or women boobs for a second? They're of course not the point of the scene but they are part of a love scene/moment and avoiding them in such way make it feel artificial.

 

Going back to the European movies. From the only Spanish movie I've seen, it did have a sex scene and this one did feel natural and has I said above, it did look nothing like porn. They use the angles as they thought it will be better for the scene and it simply did feel natural, as it was shown on a real way. And again, was nothing like porn, no direct angles as you will find on porn movies, I know I've repeated this a few times now, but lets not mistake both concepts.

 

It is truth that how osbornep(fantastic linked video by the way!) said there is a social patch created among violence to be follow, however that this path have been created for it and not nudity is part of the point. And truth be told, what you said about gamers it is a very extended idea among non players that could have something to do with it.

 

@Sifr, well, I did not thought of that about the violence part. Now that you mentioned and I think of the games I've played, most suit that. It is truth that if it was presented on a very real way it will definitely impact you to see it, but it would be interesting to actually experience that on a game and see how it affects the whole of the game.

 

As for the "auto dress" hehe, more than sure that it has to do with not working on a new animation, but it becomes part of the whole that make this scenes look artificial. And I agree with you it doesn't really affect the enjoyment of the player when it comes down to the interaction of the romance, but I do think it loses on naturalness as a whole.

 

karushna5,

 

Part of this post is directed for you as I have the feeling you've think I was looking for seeing sex rather than what stated above, where I also state that I don't think sex have to be either porn or nothing, as said by cindercatz on its answer.

 

As from where this tabu comes from I must disagree with you, the Greece and Romans where open with this matters, however the idea of "one watching TV while the other one have sex" is taking things to an extreme. Of course this cultures did not do such things as your TV example, but sex was definitely not a tabu among the Greco-Roman culture and it wasn't until the rise of the Christianity on the late Roman Empire when a size of this religion started to go backwards(there where plenty of Roman christians who did defense knowledge and defend others rights for there free will on believes etc, so lets not doom the entire religion). It was on the dark age when sex was pointed out as a tabu on the christian religion. And while is TRUE that other civilizations at the same age of Greece or Romans did not treated it so openly, our civilization is the direct descendant of the Greco-Roman civilization and all our culture is define by it and all that happened in occident, all influenced by there legacy. 

[Derpy]

bmwcrazy, on 24 Apr 2014 - 7:38 PM, said:

This thread is useless without pics.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please post more of em purdy pictures  

@ Recon Ponies don't wear clothes because they are animals.

[naddaya]

I find all this butthurt about nudity and sex in videogames completely ridiculous. We're killing people all the time, these are mature rated games, and people freak out because of a naked butt cheek?

There's nothing wrong with nudity and sex. I don't care for porn in a game, but the media getting all flamed up because of the ME1 romance scene made me roll my eyes. Most gamers didn't give a damn.

 

Gratuitous sexualization I have an issue with. If being very sexual is part of a character's personality, great (Isabela). If it's just because boobs/ass (countless examples) it's pathetic. It's also very one-sided, female naked bodies are shown all the time, yet when a dude is naked it's "awkward and unnecessary".

[Endurium]

I find annoying the hypocrisy of the West where the beauty of a (fit) human body dare not be viewed yet we're welcome to fill our eyes with scenes of violence, murder, rape, genocide, and mass bloodshed. (That said, some people I see in public would do everyone a favor by wearing more clothing!)

 

So, for example, when buying the Witcher EE, I got the UK version which is uncensored. And to make Skyrim NPC's comments like "Naked naked naked!" have real meaning I use a replacement body mod.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Because Jesus hates pleasure for its own sake. However he is a HUGE fan of suffering & bloodshed. Also the Easter Bunny hates peanut butter cookies

 

Your sarcasm isn't appreciated.

 

I think this is clearly a social thought remain from the dark age when the church on power did pursue the classic ways and "pagan believes", however I'm yet amaze how a beautiful thing such as sex is presented in all media as a terrible tabu and killing other people is acceptable. 

 

What does this even mean? If you mean "the church's teaching of nudity being shameful" influenced today then you'd be wrong. The Renaissance was filled with artists painting, drawing and sculpturing people in nude from Jesus himself to drawings, paintings and sculptures of the anatomy of the body. The medieval's church's view had long been replaced with a new view and today's society emphasizes sexuality in media. In fact the popular series "A Game of Thrones" contains displays of nudity. The fear of depicting nudity seems to mostly be a game thing. Most movies with adult ratings and violence don't often have a fear of showing someone topless.

 

Perhaps you should be asking why many game developers feel the need to censor nudity whilst many movies (from all the recent block-busters such as Django Unchained, Cloud Atlas, American Hustle, Before Midnight and that's just to name a few) don't feel the need. Meanwhile the only games I can think of from last year and prior at the back of my head with nudity in are GTA V and Metro Last Light.

 

You also seem unaware of what the dark age was. It was the period when Rome collapsed. I don't know what they teach in American schools but historians actually now agree that the "dark ages" were not that "dark".

 

 

Also getting into Kung-fu fights with the Greek Pantheon.

Spoiler

Not featured is the previous scene where Jesus gets off the cross and delivers sick roundhouse kicks to Apollo and Hercules...no...seriously.

 

That's nothing. In another comic he's fighting the nazis and runs up some nazi's urine to deliver a kick to his face.

 

Spoiler

 

He later teams up with Winston Churchill, Columbus, Einstein and other historical figures as they travel through time saving the world. No seriously.

 

Hey, anything showing Jesus beating up nazis is fine by me. God, I hate the nazis and Hitler.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

 

 

You also seem unaware of what the dark age was. It was the period when Rome collapsed. I don't know what they teach in American schools but historians actually now agree that the "dark ages" were not that "dark".

 

 

Liked for this. More people should become familiar with less biased history.

What I know without cheating from a text:

Islamic world used Greek and Persian scientists knowledge and expanded it somehow until the Turks came and sufist groups became a fashion of the day instead of scientific groups (7th century till 12th century). Then Mongols invaded the middle east and everything just ended up in ruins until 16-17th century and it was the last centuries the Islamic world had some advancement.

But in Middle Age the Europe there was religious schools where science were also thought. Then actual universities were founded in England, France, Italy etc. where philosophy and science were thought.

[Zubi Fett]

Prior to the fall of the western roman empire the dark age was already taking form on the Roman society, having and increasing rise of a christian movement that did pursue the old ways with great violence, a movement that did end up being the major movement/way on the whole Roman empire(to any one else reading this, certain pagan ways did pursue christians on prior ages with bloodshot, this exchange of masacres happened on the late Roman empire).

 

I'm MORE than aware of what the dark age is and if you actually look deeper into it you'll find that some considerate the beginning of the dark age the day where a great women call Hypatia of Alexandria was brutally murdered. 

 

The renaissance is the end of the Dark age, impulse by the contact/relation of the Republic of Florence with the Roman empire(historically call Byzantine Empire) and was given its final push with the fall of this one at the hands of the Ottoman Empire, when the great minds of the fallen empire emigrate to the italian republics, which where already embracing knowledge and the classic ways.

 

For example, on this age the courtesans where seen with good eyes until the church did present them as a pagan/impure job(which as survive until our days).

 

You've been quoting the renaissance as if I said it never existed just because I said certain social feels derivate from the dark age or old church survived till our days. You've also linked a post which speaks about the Arabian Empire, one of the greatest civilizations. They did make great advancements on science, medicine and astronomy and did influence on the renaissance as well due to its proximity. Did you put this link talking about them to prove that the dark age wasn't "dark "because of them? The Dark Age is considerate to happen on the territories that did belong to the western Roman Empire, excluding the Iberian peninsula as it was then territory of the Arabian Empire. Not to forget the Roman Empire did remain after the beginning of the dark age and did do so as the main military power for centuries. Not to forget they did hellenized over time and did kept the old knowledge and did also make advanced on science. They where key to the renaissance.

 

However, on your link they're also using them to state the dark age wasn't so dark ones more. If we look deeper on the eastern Roman Empire history, we'll find that they where in constant fight with the western church. And  again, the "dark age" applies to the territories that ones belong to western Roman Empire.

 

"History now says the dark age wasn't so dark" This is a minor movement on my eyes and its, on my honest opinion, move by christians which refuse to see the dark age as a gigantic backwards movement. Which I find childish, because of this events christians are not monsters who put humanity under ignorance. The Roman where christians as well during all this period and they did kept knowledge and advance on it.

 

It will be as If I try to make the Spanish Inquisition look better because I'm Spanish and I refuse to see such tragic events as part of Spanish history.

 

But again, this last is my opinion.

 

Last, your quote about the USA; such insinuation is completely unnecessary. I know plenty of people from the US who are highly educated. That the general state of the public school of the USA is below the European is different, but because of such thing is completely inadequate to send such indirects to its people, as if every one in Europe was a genius.

 

Regarding history this are my thoughts, which I defend strongly and have a huge personal research behind, I don't speak/discuss with ignorance as a background.

 

If you feel the need to answer to it, I ask you that we translate it to private messages.

 

As for the media,

 

Personally, on the north american movies/shows I see, what I've seen is very similar to what we see on video games(I haven't seen any of the show/movies you have quoted). As for video games, I haven't play Metro Last Night but I've play GTA V and the nudity on it I consider it to be not that above in comparison to the one in Mass Effect, it is true that it plays far more with sexuality but it is closer to pure sexual vice rather than love scenes as the ones we see on Mass Effect or Dragon Age. 

 

If I've to describe GTA V shortly in regards of sex/nudity: It is very provocative but it ultimately avoids it. 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

YOU PEOPLE HAVE SICK MINDS.

 

Girls in Traditional clothes > Girls in corsets > ... > Girls in modern clothes > ... > Full nude Women

 

It seems people here like to live in Nudist Islands.

 

And you white people better stay away from the sun and wear full clothes and carry umbrella. You become very unattractive when you are passing time under the sun for too long. Pink Panther isn't really attractive you know.

[TheClonesLegacy]

 

It seems people here like to live in Nudist Islands.

 

Well...depending on the Nudist Beach we're talking about...

Spoiler

*drool*

[Inquisitor Recon]

No nudist islands, everybody should be wearing hazmat suits at all times.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

No nudist islands, everybody should be wearing hazmat suits at all times.

 

When Sun goes hyper everyone will...

[TheClonesLegacy]

No nudist islands, everybody should be wearing hazmat suits at all times.

Are we cooking Meth now? or shuffling through the wreckage of Chernobyl?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Are we cooking Meth now? or shuffling through the wreckage of Chernobyl?

Both.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Both.

Cooking meth for the Radioactive mutants in Chernobyl?

Cool.