82 réponses à ce sujet

[TurretSyndrome]

As I've stated in another thread, there is no evidence to truly support the notion that the Grey Wardens are "good guys."  Allistair was a good man, sure, but Duncan was the kind of man who would kill someone to preserve Grey Warden secrets (i.e. Ser Jory).  As for Riordan, we didn't know him well enough to accurately sum up his personality.  The Grey Wardens are incredibly secretive about their order.  It's even said that they know where the remaining Old Gods are imprisoned, yet they do nothing with this information.  Attacking them doesn't seem all too unusual once you think about it.

 

 

It may not be as cut and dry now but the Grey Warden order was started for good. Now the order may just be corrupt and as some like speculate, maybe they're causing the Blights only to stop them and be remembered as heroes everywhere. If they are fighting for good and are sincere in destroying the Darkspawn, it's just that some believe that the way to go about achieving the peace might end up sacrificing more lives than they are meant to protect.

 

I think there are extremities and subtleties in every order. Alistair was a junior member, and was soft on the "whatever it takes" rule. He did not understand(or maybe accept?) how ugly it can get. He felt throughout the game that the order stands for honour, but the truth was it stands to get things done. It was funny that I understood that in my few hours of gameplay of Origins the first time, while he was already a member of the order for 6 months. As I said, it could be a matter of acceptance.

 

The reason they are usually secretive about a lot of things is because a lot of things they do are pretty questionable. What they did in Legacy was questionable. But as you said, we really don't have much information to go on about why we would have to attack the wardens.

[JoltDealer]

Well, reaching an old god it's a bet: you win or lose everything. Once you have made your path to it, you kill it before the dark spawn overwhelm you (they can pass through the hole you dig), or you start an other blight. And reaching an old god it's not the easiest thing to do. There are going to be lot of dark spawn camping nearby, listening to the call. So the wardens should go in the deep roads with an army, fight thousands of dark spawn, keep the place secure until the digging is done, and kill a dragon. And if they fail, they are going to face a blight (without the army they lost in the deep roads). It's a hard bet to do.

 

With the Grey Wardens also having the taint in their blood, getting near an Old God would have the same end result as a Darkspawn finding it -- an Archdemon and a new Blight.  The information would literally be more useful in the hands of any other organization that isn't the Grey Wardens.

 

That being said, none of that changes just how secretive the Grey Wardens are.  Most of Thedas has no idea what becoming one entails.  The chance of dying during the Joining, the tainted blood of its members, and their shortened lifespans are all secret to most outsiders.  With that much secrecy surrounding their members, who can say what else they are likely hiding?

[Former_Fiend]

I don't care what the plot reasons we're up against the wardens are; if it's required and it's more than just a small, breakway force, then I'm never going to beat the game because I'm always going to let the wardens win.

[Giubba]

Imho splinter faction under Corypheus control.

[JoltDealer]

It may not be as cut and dry now but the Grey Warden order was started for good. Now the order may just be corrupt and as some like speculate, maybe they're causing the Blights only to stop them and be remembered as heroes everywhere. If they are fighting for good and are sincere in destroying the Darkspawn, it's just that some believe that the way to go about achieving the peace might end up sacrificing more lives than they are meant to protect.

 

I think there are extremities and subtleties in every order. Alistair was a junior member, and was soft on the "whatever it takes" rule. He did not understand(or maybe accept?) how ugly it can get. He felt throughout the game that the order stands for honour, but the truth was it stands to get things done. It was funny that I understood that in my few hours of gameplay of Origins the first time, while he was already a member of the order for 6 months. As I said, it could be a matter of acceptance.

 

The reason they are usually secretive about a lot of things is because a lot of things they do are pretty questionable. What they did in Legacy was questionable. But as you said, we really don't have much information to go on about why we would have to attack the wardens.

 

The Grey Wardens were formed out of necessity, and that's all we can say with certainty.  "Good" is subjective in this case, as the alternative was being killed by the Darkspawn and the Archdemon.  I'm sure we will learn more in the upcoming "Last Flight" novel.

 

And we agree on your second point.  The Grey Wardens are about doing whatever is necessary to survive.  That being said, in Dragon Age II, every time that we see the Grey Wardens, they're up to something secret.  It will likely come to light in Inquisition, but I don't trust people that keep that many secrets.

 

Although we don't have much information to go on, I always feel it's necessary to point out exactly how morally ambiguous the Grey Wardens are.  A lot of threads like this are almost surprised why the Inquisitor would attack their Keep because we mistakenly view them as "Good Guys" do to the Warden and Allistair.  It's shocking to some, but it makes perfect sense to me.  Now it's just a matter of what secret has gotten them in trouble this time.

[Dermain]

As I've stated in another thread, there is no evidence to truly support the notion that the Grey Wardens are "good guys."  Allistair was a good man, sure, but Duncan was the kind of man who would kill someone to preserve Grey Warden secrets (i.e. Ser Jory).  As for Riordan, we didn't know him well enough to accurately sum up his personality.  The Grey Wardens are incredibly secretive about their order.  It's even said that they know where the remaining Old Gods are imprisoned, yet they do nothing with this information.  Attacking them doesn't seem all too unusual once you think about it.

 

I believe it was mentioned that the effort to reach even one Old God would completely exhaust all of the Warden's resources. Even if the darkspawn are unable to reach the remaining Old Gods the Warden's will have to wipe out thousands (if not more) of darkspawn, and THEN fight the dragon. We also do not know how the Old Gods are turned into archdemons since we only know how the fifth blight started.

 

The Warden's also keep the joining a secret because if it was common knowledge how to become a Grey Warden it would be even harder for them to find recruits. They would have to rely solely on the right of conscription, and even that does not guarantee a good recruit (Anders).

[Tinxa]

I'd be really disappointed if it turns out we're fighting them only because of some sort of "magical corruption".

 

I've wanted to see the Greywardens as antagonists in a DA game for a while now. Just to shake up our preconceptions about the order. I would definitely like to see the other side to them and not see them depicted as "the good guys" for all time just because we played a warden in the first game.

 

I'd definitely prefer to fight them because of conflicting interests or because the first warden is playing politics than because they're "the good guys" and the big bad just put something in their soup to make them crazy. And once we find the magical cure they'll be the good guys again  .

[Fredward]

I think some of ya'll are waaaay too hung up on the good guy/bad guy thing, I doubt it's gonna be that clear cut.

[AresKeith]

I've wanted to stab a GW ever since Duncan forced the Joining on the PC.

I think we're attacking them because they are jerkfaces.

Shouldn't have been stubborn then

[JoltDealer]

I believe it was mentioned that the effort to reach even one Old God would completely exhaust all of the Warden's resources. Even if the darkspawn are unable to reach the remaining Old Gods the Warden's will have to wipe out thousands (if not more) of darkspawn, and THEN fight the dragon. We also do not know how the Old Gods are turned into archdemons since we only know how the fifth blight started.

 

The Warden's also keep the joining a secret because if it was common knowledge how to become a Grey Warden it would be even harder for them to find recruits. They would have to rely solely on the right of conscription, and even that does not guarantee a good recruit (Anders).

 

Well the general theory is, as stated in lore and in the games themselves, that the Darkspawn find an Old God and the Taint in their blood twists it into an Archdemon.  That being said, regardless of the resources that it would take, it is information that they have and choose to keep secret from the rest of Thedas.  We are only privy to this knowledge as audience members.  No one is Thedas outside of the Grey Wardens are aware that they know the locations of the three remaining Old Gods.

 

And I never doubted their reasoning for keeping the details of the Joining secret.  However, the Grey Wardens have shown that they are willing to kill in order to keep it a secret.  The point that I am trying to make is, it is unwise to view an order of tainted warriors that are willing to kill to preserve their numerous secrets as "Good Guys."  There are plenty of reasons to attack them.

[dewayne31]

I get feeling we wont like what the answer is. always had the impression we never everything bout the wardens. i bet teheir hiding something major.

[ChaosMorning]

Probably figure that out when we get to The Last Flight.

 

I'm banking on something with Corypheus though

[Eveangaline]

Maybe the wardens have been posessed by demons.

[metalfenix]

I refuse to believe that wardens lowered themselves to use red lyrium like the templars...they were my heroes on DA:O and even on DA2

[Sifr]

I refuse to believe that wardens lowered themselves to use red lyrium like the templars...they were my heroes on DA:O and even on DA2

 

Quoth Alistair in Origins;

 

"Grey Wardens do whatever is necessary to protect mankind from Darkspawn, that means some pretty extreme things. Whatever it takes to bring victory".

 

Yeah, I could see some (but not all) Wardens perhaps turning to Red Lyrium and being corrupted by it. A Warden internal conflict, coupled with Corypheus, would certainly be enough to bring them out of the fight to prevent them taking action against the Fade Tears.

[ClassicBox]

I have no idea why we attack them but I am hoping we aren't against ALL grey wardens; hopefully only a fraction like the red Templars.

Because if so, I worry for Alistair. . . He was a grey warden in my play through. (Cannot kill Alistair, can't do it.) ono

[Zets09]

I don't wanna fight my warden he's a cunning based rouge, who has the Grim Reaper Achievement, he's OP as hell, i'm gonna die XD

[FireAndBlood]

The Grey Wardens stole all the cookies from the Inquisition's pantry.

 

This will not stand.

[Rawgrim]

We are executing Order 66. That is why we are attacking them.

[Hydromatic]

The Grey Wardens stole all the cookies from the Inquisition's pantry.

 

This will not stand.

 

Let's go find Sten and recruit him to help get them back.

 

 

 

He'd understand. I know he would.

[Kitsune]

Developers about the game: You'll probably see your Warden and Hawk.

In game: You're fighting the order... Kill your Warden, he's a bad guy now.

 

Hmmm...

[FireAndBlood]

Let's go find Sten and recruit him to help get them back.

 

 

 

He'd understand. I know he would.

The Wardens stole the cookies so they could recruit Sten who would help them steal even more cookies!

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the Wardens defense they were quite drunk when they came up with the plan.

[Hizoku]

We could be attacking them because Corypheus took over and is controlling the wardens!  

this is most likely reason for fighting the wardens since Corypheus did have the ability to affect the wardens in a similar manner to the Old Gods calling.

 

Developers about the game: You'll probably see your Warden and Hawk.

In game: You're fighting the order... Kill your Warden, he's a bad guy now.

 

Hmmm...

If that actually happens... so many people would be pissed xD

[Uccio]

There needs to be a REALLY good reason to attack the faction that made the first game so popular. Making my Warden & Co villains will not win any support from me.

[DreGregoire]

Because our younger sibling joined them and we never got along?!