I don't have any experience with the Arcane Warrior specialization, but some have claimed that it completely breaks the game. It seems that when it comes to survivability, nothing beats the Arcane Warrior. But what about DPS? Can an Arcane Warrior beat a straight-up nuker? Overall, which is the more overpowered mage?
Nuker Mage vs. Arcane Warrior
Débuté par
CosmicGnosis
, avril 25 2014 04:47
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#2
Posté 25 avril 2014 - 05:54
DarthGizka
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Frankly, I can't see the appeal of a half-assed mage who can play at being a half-assed warrior. Survivability be hanged - I'd rather die from my own badly placed Fireball than be bored to death. Not being able to tank means that you have to crowd-control and kill your enemies instead of tickling them to death, and bossy melees like revenants and alpha ogres almost invariably involve a bit of kiting. Small price to pay for ultimate power.
Mages have relatively poor sustained DPS against single, hard targets but unmatched peak DPS and crowd control. Not to mention that whole clusters of enemies are just as easily dispatched as any single target. Arcane Warriors on auto attack can have higher sustained DPS against single targets, but otherwise their offensive capabilities are strictly inferior.
Pure CC/nuker: all stats points into magic, all spell points into CC and nukeage. Maximum spellpower, maximum havoc.
Arcane Warrior: less spellpower because points need to be diverted into DEX (attack) and a bit of WIL (for sustains). Quite a few spell points need to go into the AW and Haste lines, compromising overall CC/nuke ability and reducing versatility. The latter hurts because there are many spells like Sleep that are expensive and not needed very often, but if you need them then you need them.
P.S.: this is about fighting styles, i.e. nuking vs. turtling up and ineffectually waving knives about. The AW specialisation as such is an excellent choice even for an otherwise pure cloth nuker (Helm of Honnleath, Warden Commander boots, Wade's superior plate for a bit of inferno hopping, Corruption helmet for Archie's do).
#3
Posté 25 avril 2014 - 07:04
DarthGizka
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P.P.S.: it is hard to say who would win a straight duel in PvP. The AW would probably have an edge unless the CC/nuker were built expressly for the purpose, i.e. with spells like Miasma.
#4
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 25 avril 2014 - 07:27
Guest_StreetMagic_*
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Nuker mage would easily win. Arcane warriors rely heavily on sustains. That could easily be dispelled. In fact, I think a talented Templar would probably be a bane to arcane warriors as well.
#5
Posté 25 avril 2014 - 06:02
Mike3207
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Cleanse Area can break a shapeshift, but I don't think it does anything to the Arcane Warrior sustained abilities. Holy Smite is good for a stun, but don't expect it to do much damage to a mage.
It really depends when the nuker mage and the Arcane Warrior meet. Early on, the nuker mage would have a advantage against the AW. Combat magic scales on spellpower, so the nuker would have the advantage. Things will go the AW's way once they pick up Shimmering Shield and get all the benefits it can provide.
The one fight I'd really like to see is one between a Shapeshifter mage and a Arcane Warrior. Both Combat magic and the Shapeshifter's stats scale with spellpower, and DEX/CON can get up pretty high once you get over 200+ spellpower with the shapeshifter. You can do that with the fight in the dwarven arena between a PC shapeshifter mage and a elven Arcane Warrior.That fight is way cool.
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#6
Posté 25 avril 2014 - 06:05
Elhanan
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Have no idea why these must be separate specialties, as almost all of my mages had AW to wear helms. Instead of using a weapon primarily, use a staff; works very well. The Shield is around on secondary for specific encounters when more protection is desired.
#7
Posté 25 avril 2014 - 07:27
CosmicGnosis
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I'm also concerned that the lack of weapon talents will seriously hinder the Arcane Warrior's ability to deal considerable damage.
#8
Posté 25 avril 2014 - 10:04
Elhanan
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Use weaponry as a secondary option, and staves & spells as primary, and it should be great.
#9
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 25 avril 2014 - 10:37
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
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I think straight up mage. If you have a weapon for back up - sure, but don't you need to add strength to have some power in your hits?
#10
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 25 avril 2014 - 10:46
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
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Cleanse Area can break a shapeshift, but I don't think it does anything to the Arcane Warrior sustained abilities. Holy Smite is good for a stun, but don't expect it to do much damage to a mage.
It really depends when the nuker mage and the Arcane Warrior meet. Early on, the nuker mage would have a advantage against the AW. Combat magic scales on spellpower, so the nuker would have the advantage. Things will go the AW's way once they pick up Shimmering Shield and get all the benefits it can provide.
The one fight I'd really like to see is one between a Shapeshifter mage and a Arcane Warrior. Both Combat magic and the Shapeshifter's stats scale with spellpower, and DEX/CON can get up pretty high once you get over 200+ spellpower with the shapeshifter. You can do that with the fight in the dwarven arena between a PC shapeshifter mage and a elven Arcane Warrior.That fight is way cool.
I don't know about holy smite. Those templars could lock me down in the tower. Thank god I had Alistair as well with his smite to save me from other mages. If they were with a mage that throws out crushing prison, I'd be pretty screwed and in a hurry to have my companions take them out. AI seems to favor crusing prison and chain lightning. I've seen my team die from that crap.
#11
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 25 avril 2014 - 10:59
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
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I'm also concerned that the lack of weapon talents will seriously hinder the Arcane Warrior's ability to deal considerable damage.
Yes. I found that I was just best off to shore up constitution and willpower with lyrium and health potions to save my butt. Arcane warrior is a risky thing because mages need to be more defensive. They don't have the power with hits. They have the power with spells. The key to a good mage is playing the defensive. So things like glyph of repulsion, sleep, cone of cold - things that you can use fast to stop enemies from coming at you are your source of power to kill as well as protect. Crushing prison is a great as well but without mods, recharge is too slow to really count on it. Really, I personally feel that if you aren't going solo then as a mage my job is to do everything I can to protect my team and give them the best chance to kill while being at less risk. So sleep, cone of cold .... things that will slow or stop enemies help them a lot. And they keep enemies off me as well. COC when things are coming at me is a life saver. Glyph of repulsion is great most of the time. Certain foes can get past it at times but generally, it will work like a charm. Arcane warrior however puts you right in the fray. You take more damage and without strength the damage you do is minimal. I screwed around with attributes and can see how much a difference stregth add especially if you have a lot. So without it you damage is smaller and you are at higher risk because you aren't on the defensive. Mages are best as defensive I think. But that's just me. I did arcane warrior and later went to pure mage with a staff. Turns out that the staff mage who thinks tactically about keeping enemies off them and stopping them with things like sleep, grease, paralysis glyph explosions and glyph of repulsion are really ahead of the game at least within the game from what I saw. I'm not thinking of DPS so much but in general through a game.
#12
Posté 26 avril 2014 - 12:01
Mike3207
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I think straight up mage. If you have a weapon for back up - sure, but don't you need to add strength to have some power in your hits?
Not if you have Combat Magic. Combat Magic increases your melee damage by 1 for every point of spellpower, also your attack but that's a bit slower. I had my level 31 mage reach 130 damage with a sword equipped.The -50% fatigue is a big drawback though.
