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Gender-neutral companions


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#1
Cainhurst Crow

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Inspire by a discussion in a thread. The prospect arose of having a gender neutral companion, one who was neither a male or a female, to be a member of our party in the future, and the various forms that could take. The prospect of some entity, such as a wisp or slyven, a spirit from the fade, hermaphrodites, and even a transgender character such as Maevaris Tilani that would occupy both genders simultaneously.

It was interesting, so I decided to open it up to other people. What would your ideas for a gender-neutral or genderless character be? I know what mine would be, a suit of armor with a soul bound to it and animating it, similar to how shale was. We wouldn't be able to tell what gender the original person was, and they themselves wouldn't identify by any gender. Also it'd be a cool character to see in action;.

 

Armor.jpg


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#2
Vapaa

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The voiceover would ruin it.



#3
Maria Caliban

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Shale springs to mind.

I wouldn't call a transgender woman or an intersex person 'gender neutral' or 'occupying both genders at once.'

I've expressed interest in a genderfluid spirit companion previously. Someone for whom gender was something they changed as desired.

The voiceover would ruin it.


Disagree. It would present a creative challenge, but there are lots of ways to overcome it.
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#4
n7stormrunner

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I'm going to go ahead and say it, this is not going to end well.

 

now that the pessimism is out the way.

 

I don't see this happening again, not even if we get shale as a golem again. because we know she was/is a woman many people would count her as one, myself included.



#5
Br3admax

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Shale is female and calls herself female, so no not Shale. As to the idea, no feelings any way or the other. Seems kind of pointless. 



#6
Squeeze the Fish

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Depending on what exactly Cole is, and assuming he's even in DAI, could 'he' not occupy that space? I know his body is 'male' but I'm referencing whatever's inside him. Aren't spirits/demons supposed to be gender neutral that sort of 'identify' with one gender or the other? Or were you looking for something more clearly neutral?



#7
superdeathdealer14

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I want to recruit a transgender Grey Warden now.



#8
Maria Caliban

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Shale is female and calls herself female, so no not Shale.

Shale is not female, Shale is a woman. And Shale doesn't consider herself a woman at the beginning of DA:O. Even when she learns of her past, she seems to regard being a woman as an interesting possibility to explore, not something she completely identifies with.

#9
oceanicsurvivor

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I love the idea of a companion outside the gender binary but I don't want something so fantastical as a suit of armor. I would rather we had an actual trans* companion voiced by a trans* actor or actress.

 

Don't give the player the option to butcher the companions pronouns or generally be an awful person to the trans* companion because of their trans* identity and don't make them being trans* the focus of their character arc. Make them a Grey Warden as was mentioned above, the head of the Antivan Crows , a Captain of the Raiders, or make them a high powered Qunari etc. 

 

EDIT: Daveliam kindly pointed out that I misinterpreted/misread the OP. I read it as outside the gender binary, not so much gender neutral. To any trans* individuals or trans* allies who may be hurt by this misrepresentation I'm very sorry.


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#10
ObserverStatus

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It was interesting, so I decided to open it up to other people. What would your ideas for a gender-neutral or genderless character be? I know what mine would be, a suit of armor with a soul bound to it and animating it, similar to how shale was. We wouldn't be able to tell what gender the original person was, and they themselves wouldn't identify by any gender. Also it'd be a cool character to see in action

If BioWare made a gender-neutral character, they could be similar to Justice from Awakening. Justice's host body was male, but I don't think the spirit had a gender themself.



#11
Iakus

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Cole (if that is a companion) is a fade spirit who merely wears the form of a dead boy.  With no more gender than any other Fade spirit or demon

 

Shale is arguably female, in that the golem is animated by the soul of a female dwarf, but it doesn't consider itself as such anymore.

 

And OP's post reminds me of Vhailor from Planescape:  Torment.   :D



#12
Just My Moniker

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What about a demon/spirit possessed set of armor? With the correct VA this could work (it would be incredibly silly though  :lol: )

 

Edit: Didnt realize the OP said the same thing. I have got to start reading pages fully before I post.



#13
Cainhurst Crow

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I love the idea but I don't want something so fantastical as a suit of armor. I would rather we had an actual trans* companion voiced by a trans* actor or actress.

 

Don't give the player the option to butcher the companions pronouns or generally be an awful person to the trans* companion because of their trans* identity and don't make them being trans* the focus of their character arc. Make them a Grey Warden as was mentioned above, the head of the Antivan Crows , a Captain of the Raiders, or make them a high powered Qunari etc. 

 

Well, there are some interesting points raised, but it raises raises some points that I'd like to ask about.

 

1. Why a transgendered voice actor? There are many, and I do mean many, voice actors who I feel could portray a transgender voice role. More to the point, transgendered individuals don't tend to sound that different from regular folks. Some sound exactly like one gender or the others, some have a speech patter from one gender with a vocal range of another. In either case, its not that hard to do a voice, because the voices themselves are not that different.

 

2. Why not allow the player to be mean to this trans-character? We can be mean to everyone else, regardless of what they are. We can mock leiliana's religious faith, sten's qun, fenris's slavery, anders mage struggle, morrigans upbringing, merrils elvishness and life choices, zevrens attitude, isabela's life style, pretty much everything has been on the table for the player character to do when it comes to companions, even telling them to get lost. I don't see why that character should be given a free pass. Not that it matters since sexuality I don't think was really recognized in the previous DA games, and so was hard to program jerk responses for. If that's not what you meant, then I apologize for misinterpreting.

 

3. Why make them a high ranking member of any organization? Whats wrong with them being a regular member within the ranks? Zevren wasn't the head of the crows, Wynne wasn't the head of the circle of magi, sten wasn't arishock, oghren wasn't a warden commander, alistar certently wasn't a leader of any sort, leiliana was just a sister and former spy, when they served with the player character. This character could end up becoming someone of importance in the world later on, presuming we don't play a similar role as the inquisitor in the future. I just don't know why they need to be in a leadership role right off the bat.

 



#14
Dutchess

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They had the chance for this with Justice, but by letting that spirit inhibit a male body they missed an interesting opportunity.



#15
Hanako Ikezawa

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 a suit of armor with a soul bound to it and animating it

 

 

I vote for Alphonse Elric as well!  :D

 

alphonse_elric_wallpaper_by_gjftdc-d5ni5


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#16
Killdren88

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A spirit taking control of a suit of armor and being a companions sound pretty awesome. Like a Medieval Hk-47



#17
Cainhurst Crow

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So you figured it out.

 

I vote for Alphonse Elric as well!  :D

 

alphonse_elric_wallpaper_by_gjftdc-d5ni5

 

You figured it out. Nicely done.

 

Sarcastic-clap-is-sarcastic.gif


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#18
daveliam

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A transgendered character is NOT "gender neutral" nor someone who "occupies both genders simultaneously".  At all.  And, if there ever are transgendered characters in the game, I couldn't imagine any reason at all why it would be appropriate to mock them because of their transgenderism.

 

A gender neutral character like a slyph or wisp or golem is one thing.  The other nonsense is completely inappropriate.



#19
oceanicsurvivor

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Well, there are some interesting points raised, but it raises raises some points that I'd like to ask about.

 

1. Why a transgendered voice actor? There are many, and I do mean many, voice actors who I feel could portray a transgender voice role. More to the point, transgendered individuals don't tend to sound that different from regular folks. Some sound exactly like one gender or the others, some have a speech patter from one gender with a vocal range of another. In either case, its not that hard to do a voice, because the voices themselves are not that different.

 

2. Why not allow the player to be mean to this trans-character? We can be mean to everyone else, regardless of what they are. We can mock leiliana's religious faith, sten's qun, fenris's slavery, anders mage struggle, morrigans upbringing, merrils elvishness and life choices, zevrens attitude, isabela's life style, pretty much everything has been on the table for the player character to do when it comes to companions, even telling them to get lost. I don't see why that character should be given a free pass. Not that it matters since sexuality I don't think was really recognized in the previous DA games, and so was hard to program jerk responses for. If that's not what you meant, then I apologize for misinterpreting.

 

3. Why make them a high ranking member of any organization? Whats wrong with them being a regular member within the ranks? Zevren wasn't the head of the crows, Wynne wasn't the head of the circle of magi, sten wasn't arishock, oghren wasn't a warden commander, alistar certently wasn't a leader of any sort, leiliana was just a sister and former spy, when they served with the player character. This character could end up becoming someone of importance in the world later on, presuming we don't play a similar role as the inquisitor in the future. I just don't know why they need to be in a leadership role right off the bat.

 

1. The trans* community was fairly upset to see Jared Leto recieve so much acclaim for his role playing a trans* character when there are real trans* actors and actresses who could have played the part. I believe it is called trans* face, similar to black face.  Laverne Cox (I think is her name), is an amazing trans* actress on Orange is the New Black. There are talented actors and actresses within that community. Also, if you cast Jared Leto who identifies as a man to play a character who identifies as a woman, its certainly an understandable question for some about how valid those creating the content view the trans* identity as.

 

~I should clarify all of this by saying that I'm not a part of the trans* community, I do have friends who are, and while I'm going to do my best to represent the opinions they have expressed to me, if anyone who Id's as trans* and is comfortable discussing it wants to jump in and/or correct me please do!~

 

2. I don't think we shouldn't be able to disagree or be mean to the trans* character, just that we should not be able to mock or be cruel to them for being trans*. This would be the first trans* character/companion we had which is a big deal. Being trans* still isn't widely accepted or understood, and I don't feel that 'dudebro' gamers or anyone who is homophobic or transphobic should be indulged or supported in their ability to perpetuate real world hatred. Now, if you disagree with the trans* character b/c they support the templars and you support the mages, then please, have heated arguments with them about that.

 

Additionally, some companions in Origins you can murder. I really would disagree with that being allowed as well. Now, dismissing them or not recruiting them (if you can do that with multiple companions) sure. But the murder of trans* folks is all too common and again, I don't feel like that is something the game should condone. Now yes, people get murdered, but specifically allowing a real world hate crime to happen in the game is really crossing a line imo.

 

3. I didn't so much mean they need to be the head of an organization so much as they should have other things going on for them then being trans*. They should not be our 'trans* companion', they should be our window into the world of the Crows, or something else. That was just my example. Does that make sense?

 

 

@daveliam-thats a very good point thank you! ah-yeah, I definitely read/interpreted that OP as outside the gender binary, or even agender/third gender/genderfluid/genderqueer, which does fall under the trans* identity, but probably isn't trans* in the sense most people know it as.

 

edit: also worth pointing out is the preferred terminology is trans* or transgender, not transgenderED. :)


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#20
Killdren88

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Pretty sure the OP said Gender-Neutral. Not transgender. So let's not open that can of worms.



#21
NoForgiveness

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Well Cole doesn't actually have a gender. He just takes the form of the real Cole. Someone mentioned Justice as well, he doesn't have a gender either. Both of his hosts happened to be male although one was dead. In the fade however he does take the form of a male warrior, he looks like a Templar to me while h is kind of ironic. I would also consider Shale to not have a gender. Her body is made mostly of stone and there's likely not anything left of the dwarf body in her.

#22
Guest_Puddi III_*

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Alphonse isn't really gender neutral... being a boy and all.

#23
ObserverStatus

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Alphonse isn't really gender neutral... being a boy and all.

No, but a genderless spirit could possess a suit of armor in the same manner that Alphonse is bound to his.


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#24
Hanako Ikezawa

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Alphonse isn't really gender neutral... being a boy and all.

I just put that after reading the OP's example of wanting a soul bound to a suit of armor as a companion. :P



#25
Hanako Ikezawa

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No, but a genderless spirit could possess a suit of armor in the same manner that Alphonse is bound to his.

Yeah, like a Spirit of Honor or something.