1407 réponses à ce sujet

[Vasyl]

Well giving that tevinter was in very good terms with ancient dwarves and we can encounter phylacteries with demons , contained pride demon on the deep roads , and army of harvesters done by tevinter magister and dwarves it is higly likely another reason my be red lyrium but still not done by non-mages.

Yeah they just forced a hunger demon into a rock wraith and hoped for the best. Besides if tevinter created red lyrium then it wouldn't be a surprise during DA2. Red Lyrium is more likely to be connected to the old gods and may be the reason the hungar demon was there.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Unless they are, you know, powerful.

Well hardly normal mage would face blood mage even if normal mage was powerful especially if blood mage was powerful as well thats why black divine as i said reached for blood magic...

[KainD]

Well hardly normal mage would face blood mage even if normal mage was powerful especially if blood mage was powerful as well thats why black divine as i said reached for blood magic...

 

A really powerful mage can have a mana reserve greater than what blood of a single blood mage can offer. Tons of slaves can turn the table of course. 

[EmissaryofLies]

lot doesn't mean majority as i said 90 % need to do that even if they don't like it just for sake survival and their well-being because as i said you need power and blood magic as i said is open secret... as fenris said everyone who don't use blood magic can cry how powerless they are so in such society like tevinter they probably end as slaves.

 

Fenris was talking about Magisters. You said ninety percent of mages in Tevinter were blood mages, based off of the ramblings of a former Magister slave.

 

You'll have to pardon me for doubting the veracity of such a statement. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

A really powerful mage can have a mana reserve greater than what blood of a single blood mage can offer. Tons of slaves can turn the table of course. 

Yes and when rly powerful mage will met rly power mage that use blood magic well good luck for them...

 

 

Fenris was talking about Magisters. You said ninety percent of mages in Tevinter were blood mages, based off of the ramblings of a former Magister slave.

 

You'll have to pardon me for doubting the veracity of such a statement. 

 

Sorry but who would know better what tevinter is than person tasted it? not mention that danarius was often talking about it to fenris...

As far we heard many bad things about tevinter and many of them were confirmed by tevinters that we saw (well pretty much every tevinter we saw was "evil") and then it is confirmed by fenris.

[PsychoBlonde]

It sucks for everyone sane on the plant if isane guy tries to blow entire world just reach power... i doubt that even sane mages would be happy with it

 

 

You can't eat the earth!  It's where I keep all my stuff!

 

But, seriously, the whole "mages cause problems" chain of reasoning is completely worthless for decision-making.  Here's a reductio ad absurdum comparison so you can see why:

 

"People get hungry every day and if they don't get food they can go crazy and riot and stuff!  Needing to eat causes SO MANY problems!"

 

It does, too.  But would anyone (who wasn't clearly off their nut) suggest that killing everyone who needs to eat is the solution?  No.  Or that everyone should be lined up and force-fed to prevent food-related problems?  Also no.  Focusing on the DAMAGE something causes as its only significant trait and then focusing your efforts entirely around damage control or elimination is useless.  It doesn't take into account the total nature of what you're dealing with and all of its aspects, good and bad.  Nor will some sort of statistical adding-up of bodies do you any good because of a factor Frederic Bastiat called "that which is seen and that which is not seen".  You can't add up all the people who COULD have died but DIDN'T.  It's like dealing with security.  It's really hard to add up thefts that DIDN'T happen.  So, even with a statistical analysis you're comparing numbers to a void.  You still don't know what you're dealing with.

This is why you need principles to guide you--principles formed from an enormous breadth of experience not just with one subject but with every part of life that you can observe.  Arriving at those principles is an enormous work of philosophical effort, but once you have arrived at them you learn to, say, see the difference between differences of degree (mages are, in some cases, more dangerous than a dude with a sword) and differences in kind (but mages have the same ability to control their magic that a dude with a sword does--or, at least, it appears so).  So, ultimately there's no reason to treat a mage any differently than you'd treat an armed man, to demand that the one be locked up to protect you but the other NOT be.

Of course, if a difference in KIND is ever established (which it hasn't been) and it's really demonstrated that mages just flat out don't have a functional method of controlling themselves, that's a different story.

[KainD]

Yes and when rly powerful mage will met rly power mage that use blood magic well good luck for them...

 

Edge that a blood magic gives to a very powerful mage is very small in comparison to what it gives to an average mage. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

You can't eat the earth!  It's where I keep all my stuff!

 

But, seriously, the whole "mages cause problems" chain of reasoning is completely worthless for decision-making.  Here's a reductio ad absurdum comparison so you can see why:

 

"People get hungry every day and if they don't get food they can go crazy and riot and stuff!  Needing to eat causes SO MANY problems!"

 

It does, too.  But would anyone (who wasn't clearly off their nut) suggest that killing everyone who needs to eat is the solution?  No.  Or that everyone should be lined up and force-fed to prevent food-related problems?  Also no.  Focusing on the DAMAGE something causes as its only significant trait and then focusing your efforts entirely around damage control or elimination is useless.  It doesn't take into account the total nature of what you're dealing with and all of its aspects, good and bad.  Nor will some sort of statistical adding-up of bodies do you any good because of a factor Frederic Bastiat called "that which is seen and that which is not seen".  You can't add up all the people who COULD have died but DIDN'T.  It's like dealing with security.  It's really hard to add up thefts that DIDN'T happen.  So, even with a statistical analysis you're comparing numbers to a void.  You still don't know what you're dealing with.

This is why you need principles to guide you--principles formed from an enormous breadth of experience not just with one subject but with every part of life that you can observe.  Arriving at those principles is an enormous work of philosophical effort, but once you have arrived at them you learn to, say, see the difference between differences of degree (mages are, in some cases, more dangerous than a dude with a sword) and differences in kind (but mages have the same ability to control their magic that a dude with a sword does--or, at least, it appears so).  So, ultimately there's no reason to treat a mage any differently than you'd treat an armed man, to demand that the one be locked up to protect you but the other NOT be.

Of course, if a difference in KIND is ever established (which it hasn't been) and it's really demonstrated that mages just flat out don't have a functional method of controlling themselves, that's a different story.

 

haha please what is reason to kill mages to ensure humans survival and get chance to bulit stable society what would be reason to kill every human so what we can protect human so we kill them nah please...

 

If hunger would be removed it would be great thing for humans but killing humans because of hunger is stupid and meaningless unlike killing mages that are danger for entire human civilization and world...

 

And yes there is good reason to threat mage differently than armed man armed man will kill dozen peoples at worst single mage can cause end of the world at worst that is diffrence. 

 

Thats why you treat knife in diffrent way than nuke...

 

 

 

Edge that a blood magic gives to a very powerful mage is very small in comparison to what it gives to an average mage. 

Not rly?

Blood magic is vast power up same like becoming abomnation (that is even bigger)

So we have same person A powerful mage that don't use magic and same person A that use blood magic second A will win...

[Vasyl]

Psychoblonde I just want to say I think you are more sane than TheKomandorShepard.

 

at this point I would say ignore him. He is a force that can't be reasoned with.

[Sue1582]

Yeah, Mages causes a lot of troubles, so does the chantry, and humans. Also the Qunaris too. 

[EmissaryofLies]

 

Sorry but who would know better what tevinter is than person tasted it? not mention that danarius was often talking about it to fenris...

As far we heard many bad things about tevinter and many of them were confirmed by tevinters that we saw (well pretty much every tevinter we saw was "evil") and then it is confirmed by fenris.

 

Every Magister...

 

There is a difference between a Tevinter Magister and a Tevinter Mage.

 

Or did that part confuse you when Fenris ripped out his sister's heart when she was aspiring to become one to escape her slavery?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Psychoblonde I just want to say I think you are more sane than TheKomandorShepard.

 

at this point I would say ignore him. He is a force that can't be reasoned with.

yeah besides that i give logical reason behind everything i do in opposite to everyone "it isn't right" so well...

 

 

Every Magister...

 

There is a difference between a Tevinter Magister and a Tevinter Mage.

 

Or did that part confuse you when Fenris ripped out his sister's heart when she was aspiring to become one to escape her slavery?

As i said there is a little diffrence between magisters and circle mages as lambert example shows both need have power...

 

Well she sell them to slavers i guess you would hug her and say "my dear sister i love you"?

[PsychoBlonde]

haha please what is reason to kill mages to ensure humans survival and get chance to bulit stable society what would be reason to kill every human so what we can protect human so we kill them nah please...

 

If hunger would be removed it would be great thing for humans but killing humans because of hunger is stupid and meaningless unlike killing mages that are danger for entire human civilization and world...

 

And yes there is good reason to threat mage differently than armed man armed man will kill dozen peoples at worst single mage can cause end of the world at worst that is diffrence. 

 

Thats why you treat knife in diffrent way than nuke...

 

 

 

Not rly?

Blood magic is vast power up same like becoming abomnation (that is even bigger)

So we have same person A powerful mage that don't use magic and same person A that use blood magic second A will win...

 

There's no evidence whatsoever that a single mage or even EVERY MAGE WHO HAS EVER EXISTED PUT TOGETHER can cause the "end of the world".  In fact, there's pretty significant evidence that they can't, seeing as how they've (supposedly) tried and failed.  Even the big, spectacular mage-related catastrophes that you deal with in the game involve the deaths of a few dozen people, tops.  The ones that were more than that involved armies.  If individual mages were like nukes there would be no possible way for any number of Templars to control even ONE of them, much less hundreds or thousands.

 

Of course, some of this is due to the disconnect between the lore and the gameplay--everyone freaks out about abominations and then you go to the circle tower and casually wipe out a couple dozen of them on your . . . rogue.  "Army of demons destroyed by single dagger-wielding dwarf" just doesn't gel with "mages an uncontrollable doom threat of doominess".  That's not to say they won't fix this problem later on and actually give you a sense of the REAL scale involved, but as it stands the doomsday stuff doesn't hold up.

 

And, yes, I know killing people over food problems is absurd.  That's why it's a "reductio ad absurdum".

[Divine Justinia V]

As i said there is a little diffrence between magisters and circle mages as lambert example shows both need have power...

 

That's such bs. One is free, the other is not. One is an advanced Mage while the other has probably just completed the Harrowing.

[KainD]

Not rly?

Blood magic is vast power up same like becoming abomnation (that is even bigger)

So we have same person A powerful mage that don't use magic and same person A that use blood magic second A will win...

 

No really. The stronger the mage the lesser the edge that blood magic gives. Blood mage does have the advantage but it's not all that great when it comes to powerful mages. 

[EmissaryofLies]

 

As i said there is a little diffrence between magisters and circle mages as lambert example shows both need have power...

 

Well she sell them to slavers i guess you would hug her and say "my dear sister i love you"?

 

Not all are going to be in the circle. Not all are even going to be slaves. 

 

I will grant that ninety percent number as it pertains to Magisters.

 

I'll need better sources to blanket the vast majority of Tevinter Magi as practicing Maleficarum. 

[Hellion Rex]

No really. The stronger the mage the lesser the edge that blood magic gives. Blood mage does have the advantage but it's not all that great when it comes to powerful mages. 

 

A really strong mage would become infinitely stronger by using blood magic.

[TheKomandorShepard]

There's no evidence whatsoever that a single mage or even EVERY MAGE WHO HAS EVER EXISTED PUT TOGETHER can cause the "end of the world".  In fact, there's pretty significant evidence that they can't, seeing as how they've (supposedly) tried and failed.  Even the big, spectacular mage-related catastrophes that you deal with in the game involve the deaths of a few dozen people, tops.  The ones that were more than that involved armies.  If individual mages were like nukes there would be no possible way for any number of Templars to control even ONE of them, much less hundreds or thousands.

 

Of course, some of this is due to the disconnect between the lore and the gameplay--everyone freaks out about abominations and then you go to the circle tower and casually wipe out a couple dozen of them on your . . . rogue.  "Army of demons destroyed by single dagger-wielding dwarf" just doesn't gel with "mages an uncontrollable doom threat of doominess".  That's not to say they won't fix this problem later on and actually give you a sense of the REAL scale involved, but as it stands the doomsday stuff doesn't hold up.

 

And, yes, I know killing people over food problems is absurd.  That's why it's a "reductio ad absurdum".

 

Tevinter empire few magisters caused blight...

Qunari mage almost summoned army of demons to destroy world...

successful abomnation that wasn't detected gradually creating army of demons or tearing the veil

pretty much a lot scenarios for the end of the world...

 

Yes blights killed few dozens peoples

or zathrian curse...

same for baroness.

As well abomnations were responsible for biggest disasters in history of thedas and thats not far from true but that what codex says and codex entries aren't ultimate truth...

And templar never truly controled mages as it is proven many times.

 

The warden kills demi-gods so well hardly counts as they are chuck norris of da universe same for hawke.

 

 

 

That's such bs. One is free, the other is not. One is an advanced Mage while the other has probably just completed the Harrowing.

Not rly circle mages have great privileges in tevinter and it isn't shame in tev unlike in other palces for person to join.As lambert example shows same rule for power follow magisters as well circle mages...

 

 

Not all are going to be in the circle. Not all are even going to be slaves. 

 

I will grant that ninety percent number as it pertains to Magisters.

 

I'll need better sources to blanket the vast majority of Tevinter Magi as practicing Maleficarum. 

 

Fenris and lambert catch it...

 

 

A really strong mage would become infinitely stronger by using blood magic.

 this

[KainD]

A really strong mage would become infinitely stronger by using blood magic.

 

No, that's not how it works. Blood magic is just more potent than mana/lyrium and that's it. If it's a mage of grotesque power their mana supply might overshadow the amount of power their blood would give them. 

[DaySeeker]

Wouldn't one person with the authority of others to kill mages then be one person who could "destroy the world" by forcing mages to defend themselves in any way they can?  

 

Where does this destroying the world idea come into play.  Mages have existed for a long time and the world continues to exist.

[Br3admax]

Ummmm, she was possessed by a spirit of faith....

Does it control her? If not, she's not possessed. Tell me how she was controlled, if it was in the books. I honestly wouldn't know. 

[Hellion Rex]

No, that's not how it works. Blood magic is just more potent than mana/lyrium and that's it. If it's a mage of grotesque power their mana supply might overshadow the amount of power their blood would give them. 

Kain...I don't think that's right.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think they basically introduced red lyrium to be a human equivalent to blood magic. It's tempting, because it will give you an extreme power boost, but chances are also pretty good that it will destroy you with extended use. Will everyone take the option, anyway, if it's available? Some will, but in both cases, many people will not think it's worth the risk.

[Divine Justinia V]

Kain...I don't think that's right.

 

why

[Hellion Rex]

why

Why would that necessarily be true though? I don't think his theory is able to be backed up by lore, at least all of the lore that I have read.