1407 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

ugh look w you did Keith

 

Don't hold me responsible for Kain's actions

[Hellion Rex]

You called? 

 

Spoiler

Sigh, wrong reference, Kain.

[KainD]

Sigh, wrong reference, Kain.

 

My references are never wrong. 

[Hellion Rex]

My references are never wrong. 

I was going for Rihanna, not....whatever the hell that was.

[KainD]

I was going for Rihanna, not....whatever the hell that was.

 

That was Nana.. You didn't write: ''Rhianna chill''

[Divine Justinia V]

Don't hold me responsible for Kain's actions

 

I'm talkin' Elu, not my Candy Kain

[Hellion Rex]

I'm talkin' Elu, not my Candy Kain

....

[TheKomandorShepard]

You are equating mages with demons just because demons can possess mages but if it's demons that doesn't mean mages are to blame. 

And how demons can have fun in thedas? Answer mages!

 

So you have nothing but your opinion to back this up? Good to know. 

 

Now let me try.

Mages: Self-explanatory.

 

Demons directly: There are spirits, and thus demons, who have existed on our side of the Fade. Look at the Lady of the Forest. She was the spirit of the Brecilian Forest, not from the Fade. Plus a powerful enough demon or spirit can cross the Veil from their side just as easily as we can cross from our side. 

 

Nonmage possessed by demon: Same as 2, not all spirits are in our realm due to mages, and thus possinly possessed by one of them.

 

Explosion: With enough lyrium, which the caves around the Ashes are brimming with, enough magic is released to punch through the Veil. And anyone can set up that blast. 

 

So of the 4 I listed, only 1 involves a mage. So your theory of 'has to involve mage' is inaccurate. 

 

I will say that

How demons can cross veil and how they do in 99 % cases it is cased by mage...

And possessed non-mage can't cast spell one of reasons why demon seeks a mage.

And what how anyone can set up that blast please don't make me laugh anyone can use magical blast nope if humans could do that they could use that in wars second humans (non mages) can't use magic

[Divine Justinia V]

....

 

................

[AresKeith]

I'm talkin' Elu, not my Candy Kain

 

Na, both

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I will say that

How demons can cross veil and how they do in 99 % cases it is cased by mage...

And possessed non-mage can't cast spell one of reasons why demon seeks a mage.

And what how anyone can set up that blast please don't make me laugh anyone can use magical blast nope if humans could do that they could use that in wars second humans (non mages) can't use magic

Demons can cross Veil by amassing enough lyrium, just like mages can. We know there is Lyrium in the Fade and demons have plenty of time being immortal.

 

Inquisitor can cast a spell to close the Breach even when not a mage. 

 

Dwarves use lyrium, which is physical magic, in their explosive powders, and they can't be mages. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Illegally tranquilized mages, rapes, and beating to not equivocate the norm either, and yet you are using that as the standard.
 
More than that, you are using the existence of abuses as the proof of personal failure- a standard of argument that can just as well be turned around on mages.

With Meredith sending for annulment on two occasions, mage ambient dialogue and other delightful sounds and comments from the gallows I find little reason to believe that Thrask and Cullen 'protected the mages'. Hell, one of them even participated in an Annulment and did not have the stones to finally stand up to Meredith until she threatens the all important PC.
 

I don't believe I've ever called the mage underground reprehensible, but whether they are or not it doesn't change that they are trying to act on the behalf of mages. Anders can be crazy and try to destroy threats to the mages- the two aren't mutually exclusive.

So 'misbehaving' mages means what? Exactly and precisely. That also does not change the fact that they were not protecting the mages from abuses, simply rescuing them from their tormentors.
 

When the letter in question references a continued correspondence and exchange of information, and enables the transfer of an advanced ritual, it rather does.
 
My dear friend,
I have obtained the books you requested. I'll leave them at our usual hiding spot. Please collect them as soon as possible. I would hate to see them in the wrong hands!
Your last letter was fascinating! You have proven me wrong, once again, by doing the impossible. I shouldn't have doubted your resolve, and I hope you will keep me apprised of further progress.
Your friend and colleague,

Too bad you have no proof that Orsino knew that Quentin was a serial killer at the time of the letter. So essentially it means absolutely nothing.
 
 
 

So basically there are no misbehaving mages if we categorically dismiss various forms of misbehavior as counting, especially on the bases of an exaggerated fear of 'their probable demise.'
 
Unless that last part was must metagaming, but that makes little sense for the rationals of the characters involved.

 
Meredith wanted that annulment. Orsino knew this. Hence 'probable demise'. Or do they have to see more of their friends pop up in the gallows as brand new templar puppets as Anders put it? Probable demise most certainly.
 

Except she doesn't claim that in Act III. Nor does anyone else claim she's only out for herself. You have assigned a motivation without proof to support it, that no one in the game (herself or Anders) claims she takes.
 
Meredith having a self-interest in defending Kirkwall is not exclusive with her helping other people by defending Kirkwall. Everyone in Kirkwall has a self-interest in defending Kirkwall.

Yes, because the templar's stationed in the Viscount's keep, the templars trying to remove Aveline from power. Her responses to the city when she was confronted by Orsino all scream that she was not 'claiming to rule'. And a quote "Kirkwall needs its Templars more than it needs a new ruler" "I am trying to keep order until there is a ruler capable of succeeding where Dumar failed". Meredith gets to decide who's in charge so in essence, she is in charge.

She ran Kirkwall like Armstrong ran cycling.

 

Orisino does have power and influence- unless you intend to argue that Meredith allotted him the power to prevent her from searching mage quarters, and other policies.

So she wasn't going to go ahead and search the living quarters. The fact that Orsino could not even leave his office without incurring the wrath of Meredith and her accusations is proof enough of his 'power and influence'. Or whenever Orsino wanted to involve Elthina she pulled and tugged at him like a child. Often appearing as though she was a hair away from pulling her blade. Or the fact that Alrik illegally tranquiled mages. Or the fact that Alain was getting raped. Or the fact that you can hear from mages about beatings.

And this is the same guy who when we could, publically denounced Meredith and did not hesitate to stick his neck out for his charges even if it meant further erosion of his powers.

On what grounds would Orsino simply shrug his shoulders at mage abuses?
 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Demons can cross Veil by amassing enough lyrium, just like mages can. We know there is Lyrium in the Fade and demons have plenty of time being immortal.

 

Inquisitor can cast a spell to close the Breach even when not a mage. 

 

Dwarves use lyrium, which is physical magic, in their explosive powders, and they can't be mages. 

 

No they can't? same as they can't cross veil using blood magic despite they know it? As i said if they could escape in such cheap way it would be long time ago...

 

After explosion unnatural caused by villain hm?

 

and it still isn't magic? same as gunpowder isn't ir? unless you want to be one...

[ISpeakTheTruth]

 

 

 

Just?

Please it was 2 centuries ago and qunari was going after entire thedas they crushed tevinter at first and keep them for 40 years on ease while conquering thedas it pretty much shows diffrence. And as i said tev managed free after qunari were fighting for 50 years with thedas what was rather destructive for them. If tevinter was so strong they woulnd't be crushed by qunari not mention controled by them for 40 years when they were fighting war with everyone 50 years.

 

 

 

 

(Face palm)

 

OK since you seem dead set on ignoring facts and staying with the idea that the Qunari outclass Tevinter in every way and they could destroy Tevinter whenever they want (Which is non-sense) Then explain this to me.

 

Once the treaty was signed and the only country that the Qunari had to focus their entire military on was Tevinter why and how could they so utterly be defeated? How could they lose every inch of territory that they had taken in that war?

 

Explain how this clearly superior force was so completely and utterly defeated by Tevinter and pushed out of their territory?

[KainD]

First Qunari were like:

Spoiler

 

But then they were like:

Spoiler

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No they can't? same as they can't cross veil using blood magic despite they know it? As i said if they could escape in such cheap way it would be long time ago...

 

After explosion unnatural caused by villain hm?

 

and it still isn't magic? same as gunpowder isn't ir? unless you want to be one...

Prove to me they can't. If we can cross, they can cross. It's simple logic. 

 

We don't know if that gave them powers or something inside the Fade gave them powers. 

 

Yes it is magic. Same as why enchantments made by Dwarves are magic. Lyrium is magic in its physical form. The Qunari gaatlok is the substance that is like gunpowder. 

[Divine Justinia V]

First Qunari were like:

Spoiler

 

But then they were like:

Spoiler

 

SerCambria is gonna come in here guns blazing lol  

[TheKomandorShepard]

(Face palm)

 

OK since you seem dead set on ignoring facts and staying with the idea that the Qunari outclass Tevinter in every way and they could destroy Tevinter whenever they want (Which is non-sense) Then explain this to me.

 

Once the treaty was signed and the only country that the Qunari had to focus their entire military on was Tevinter why and how could they so utterly be defeated? How could they lose every inch of territory that they had taken in that war?

 

Explain how this clearly superior force was so completely and utterly defeated by Tevinter and pushed out of their territory?

 

Eee becuase they were fighting entire continent and they crushed tevinter at first on ease? Simple it was qunari vs everyone at first they were unstoppable then long war with entire continent that united against them exhausted them but still they were dealing good considering they were fighting with everyone.

 

As i said they were weakened by war with everyone as i said they took tevinter on ease and keep that for 40 years and so after 50 years war with entire thedas simple logic dude if tevinter was their only problem not rest of thedas they would on ease keep it because their forces would be focused on tevinter not entire thedas...

 

 

Prove to me they can't. If we can cross, they can cross. It's simple logic. 

 

We don't know if that gave them powers or something inside the Fade gave them powers. 

 

Yes it is magic. Same as why enchantments made by Dwarves are magic. Lyrium is magic in its physical form. The Qunari gaatlok is the substance that is like gunpowder. 

 

If we can use blood magic to summon demon demons can use blood magic to summon human simple logic...   as i said if they could do that demons would roam in thedas long time ago...

 

So yep unnatural explosion caused by mage/demon then non-mage have powers still ends on mage because it is mage who caused explosion or demon that caused it...

 

So you know how that works and it is magic i didn't know that you are expert in that where it is said that it is magic?

[Dean_the_Young]

With Meredith sending for annulment on two occasions, mage ambient dialogue and other delightful sounds and comments from the gallows I find little reason to believe that Thrask and Cullen 'protected the mages'. Hell, one of them even participated in an Annulment and did not have the stones to finally stand up to Meredith until she threatens the all important PC.

 

So on limited hearsay and Act 3 developments, which would generally fail to constitute any sort of proof and is indisputably limited perspective, you make broad and absolute claims.

 

Good to see the need for support applies to me but not you.

 

 

 

So 'misbehaving' mages means what? Exactly and precisely

 

Defying established and understood laws of the Circle. Including not being apostates, smuggling, and so on.

 

 

. That also does not change the fact that they were not protecting the mages from abuses, simply rescuing them from their tormentors.

 

Incorrect. All you can show is that they did not protect those particular mages from abuse- you can show nothing about the prospect of off-screen abuses that did or did not happen.
 

 

Too bad you have no proof that Orsino knew that Quentin was a serial killer at the time of the letter. So essentially it means absolutely nothing.

 

We do know that Orsino knew what Quentin was researching because Quentin shared it (and the ritual) with him. We do know that Orisino knew that Quentin was a serial killer because Orsino admits to knowing it in the Templar ending. And we know that Orsino covered up this knowledge years before Meredith went crazy and sought annullment because Quentin was committing his crimes years beforehand.

 

If you think the undated nature of the letter renders it all meaningless... well, you've already established your intellectual integrity.
 
 

 

Meredith wanted that annulment. Orsino knew this. Hence 'probable demise'. Or do they have to see more of their friends pop up in the gallows as brand new templar puppets as Anders put it? Probable demise most certainly.

 

 

Meredith wanted annullment in Act 3. She never approved illegal tranquility. Orisino's coverup in Act 2 and as early as Act 1 can not claim fears of these threats of sanctioned harm that were never raised at the time.

 

And in case you missed it, Anders fears of the Tranquil Solution were grossly exagerated and mis-informed. A rather significant part of that mission was about how little his conviction and certainty had to do with reality.
 

 

Yes, because the templar's stationed in the Viscount's keep, the templars trying to remove Aveline from power. Her responses to the city when she was confronted by Orsino all scream that she was not 'claiming to rule'. And a quote "Kirkwall needs its Templars more than it needs a new ruler" "I am trying to keep order until there is a ruler capable of succeeding where Dumar failed". Meredith gets to decide who's in charge so in essence, she is in charge.

 

She ran Kirkwall like Armstrong ran cycling.

 

Which is not the same as claiming she is Kirkwall, which is what you were claiming before.

 

 

So she wasn't going to go ahead and search the living quarters. The fact that Orsino could not even leave his office without incurring the wrath of Meredith and her accusations is proof enough of his 'power and influence'. Or whenever Orsino wanted to involve Elthina she pulled and tugged at him like a child. Often appearing as though she was a hair away from pulling her blade. Or the fact that Alrik illegally tranquiled mages. Or the fact that Alain was getting raped. Or the fact that you can hear from mages about beatings.

 

 

She also wasn't going to go ahead with illegal tranquility. She also could not prevent him from speaking in public or going to Elthina or receiving visitors such or the Champion. In even rudimentary police states, these are very basic signals of power.

 

Orsino doesn't need to be omnipotent (which is about the only standard of power that would allow him to prevent all abuses) to have power and influence. Nor does Orsino not having power enough to prevent Meredith from imposing on him mean he has none, or that Meredith is completely unchecked.

 

And this is the same guy who when we could, publically denounced Meredith and did not hesitate to stick his neck out for his charges even if it meant further erosion of his powers.

 

Which is evidence that he has power, and Meredith is limited, in the first place.

 

You can't have it both ways. Either Orsino is powerless and impotent, or he can openly denounce his jailor and most powerful woman in the city in public at the stairs of her boss.

 

On what grounds would Orsino simply shrug his shoulders at mage abuses?

 

This is a strawman fallacy. I have never claimed Orsino should do such.

 

What I condemned Orsino for doing was covering for mages even when the mages were guilty. Orsino would have much greater credibility to refute accusations of covering for mage criminals had he actually outed the mage criminal he knew about and not tried to cover up other potential mage criminals. He has no established credibility for turning in a mage in the wrong that the Templars don't already know about.

[KainD]

Once the treaty was signed and the only country that the Qunari had to focus their entire military on was Tevinter why and how could they so utterly be defeated? How could they lose every inch of territory that they had taken in that war?

 

simple logic dude if tevinter was their only problem not rest of thedas they would on ease keep it because their forces would be focused on tevinter not entire thedas...

 

TKS.. How do you function? 

[MisterJB]

On the topic of Orsino's resources, I just passed by a Tranquil who tells me the First Enchanter had set up the price of potions well beyond the costs of making them. Obviously, the was trying to earn money which is power.

[Vegeta 77]

TKS.. How do you function? 

beer i think.

[TheKomandorShepard]

TKS.. How do you function? 

Eee normally sadly if you only was able focus and think about what im saying that qunari was after more than 100 years fight with entire continent when qunari at first conquered tevinter on ease only after 40 years (50 war with entire continent) tevinter was able freed themeslves...

[MisterJB]

Yes, but the word conceal seems like he's merely trying to cover it up and that he is unconcerned about blood mages. When in fact, by his word alone he is concerned. He himself hadn't even practiced blood magic until the immortal Hawke and nutjob Meredith were coming to cut him down. That all depends on whether you believe him or not, but he has no reason to lie in his final moments. Despite his mysterious connection with Quentin, I've little reason to believe that Orsino is a fan of blood magic or maleficarum in general.

I do not believe him for various reasons:

 

1-He was far too adept with it.

 

2-If you side with the Templars, you will encounter several blood mages as well as mages summoning demons who will help them against the party which also suggests a level of aptitude with blood magic to the point where they can summon and control the weaker demons such as those of Rage.

I do not believe they managed to master all of this in the time it took for Hawke to cross from Lowtown to the Gallows, especially on their own. They had to have been training for some time and Orsino has a known close connection with a powerful blood mage.

 

He could be lying for no other reason than to torment her by making her believe that she is the one who drove him to it. I mean, he did turn into a monster for no other reason than to kill Meredith so he is, evidently, a vindictive person.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Eee becuase they were fighting entire continent and they crushed tevinter at first on ease? Simple it was qunari vs everyone at first they were unstoppable then long war with entire continent that united against them exhausted them but still they were dealing good considering they were fighting with everyone.

 

As i said they were weakened by war with everyone as i said they took tevinter on ease and keep that for 40 years and so after 50 years war with entire thedas simple logic dude if tevinter was their only problem not rest of thedas they would on ease keep it because their forces would be focused on tevinter not entire thedas...

 

 

 

 

Are you even listening at this point? The Codex states clearly that the Qunari didn't lose territory until they signed the treaty when they agreed to leave most of the territory they conquered except for that eastern country. At that point they still had Tevinter's territory...this is the important part. They had Tevinter's land when the rest of Thedas stopped fighting the Qunari so they DID focus all their military on Tevinter and they still lost all the territory they had taken! So to recap the Qunari were defeated by the Tevinter AFTER they had already made peace with the rest of Thedas and were able to focus all their energy solely on them.

 

I also love how you defend the Qunari losses saying they were tired because they were fighting the rest of Thedas but you refuse to give the same consideration for Tevinter who had just gone through 4 Exalted Marches against them. Nope that had nothing to do with they were just weak.... I love your double standards.