1407 réponses à ce sujet

[JoltDealer]

When I play a mage, I prefer to play an Arcane Warrior or something of that sort.  Something where magic is only used to bolster my physical abilities.  I think the problem with most circles is that they wish to further magic in one way or another.  While healing is useful, most other abilities can only ever be used to harm people.  I think that mages should be taught to control/restrain their abilities and focus on preventing demonic possession, instead of learning how to create a blizzard or turn people into walking bombs.  Basically, I don't think they should be taught to improve their offensive capabilities at all.

[Augustei]

Yeah, that half an army came in really useful for selling people into slavery. I'm glad Loghain kept it around.

They weren't needed for that, The Tevinters had their own guards. The funds from the slaves did come very much in handy resupplying and rebuilding the army though yes, glad you see that =D

 

I like to know where you'd figure out that I was trying to label Loghain as some kind of hero? Which section of my posts that even brought this up in the first place? No hes no hero. He might of been in the Stolen Throne novel, but he became far worst. He became a mad man who betrayed his King and lust for power. He almost had his entire country ransacked by the Darkspawn by hiring assassins to take care of the surviving grey wardens so that he doesn't get exposed for who he truly is.

Didn't need you to tell me A man labelled The Hero of Ferelden was a hero. Glad he "betrayed" that stupid King though, what an idiot that Cailan guy was lol, wanting to marry Celene..Yes that would have gone down so well and no civil wars would have been had
He suffered insanity because he didn't charge the field filled with an overwealming amount of Darkspawn that had already broken all the way through the Ferelden ranks? Someone clearly doesn't know the meaning of the word insanity then.

[Mockingword]

They weren't needed for that, The Tevinters had their own guards. The funds from the slaves did come very much in handy resupplying and rebuilding the army though yes, glad you see that =D

I don't care if they were useful.

 

I would honestly prefer to see Ferelden overrun by darkspawn before I would ever endorse slavery.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't care if they were useful.

 

I would honestly prefer to see Ferelden overrun by darkspawn before I would ever endorse slavery.

LoL few sold elves for entire country is rather cheap price heh they can even have better in tevinter than in Ferelden if they will be lucky

[Augustei]

I don't care if they were useful.

 

I would honestly prefer to see Ferelden overrun by darkspawn before I would ever endorse slavery.

You would rather see massive scale death and destruction, and women being hauled off the be turned into broodmothers than endorse the slavery of a small minority of people within a city who i'm willing to bet would much rather be slaves than that alternative? Rightio then...

[Zazzerka]

You would rather see massive scale death and destruction, and women being hauled off the be turned into broodmothers than endorse the slavery of a small minority of people within a city who i'm willing to bet would much rather be slaves than that alternative? Rightio then...

 

Are you volunteering for slave duty?

[Mockingword]

You would rather see massive scale death and destruction, and women being hauled off the be turned into broodmothers than endorse the slavery of a small minority of people within a city who i'm willing to bet would much rather be slaves than that alternative? Rightio then...

At least Darkspawn have the excuse of not knowing better.

 

Human life has no inherent value. If I'm putting my ass on the line to save a country, that country had damn well better be worth saving.

[TheKomandorShepard]

At least Darkspawn have the excuse of not knowing better.

 

Human life has no inherent value. If I'm putting my ass on the line to save a country, that country had damn well better be worth saving.

You are saving country that regularly abuse elves so hahaha so you don't make it any better you just restore old mess.

[Augustei]

Are you volunteering for slave duty?

Hmm Be a slave, or watch all the males ive ever known be killed, watch the females turned into giant monsters and my home burn to the ground...Hmm tis a tough one.

 

At least Darkspawn have the excuse of not knowing better.

 

Human life has no inherent value. If I'm putting my ass on the line to save a country, that country had damn well better be worth saving.

Being able to save it in the first place with a funded and supplied army is always nice.. Plus the slavery can be ceased when the country has been saved.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Hmm Be a slave, or watch all the males ive ever known be killed, watch the females turned into giant monsters and my home burn to the ground...Hmm tis a tough one.

 

 

Or be smart and take third option and flee from ferelden

[Zazzerka]

Hmm Be a slave, or watch all the males ive ever known be killed, watch the females turned into giant monsters and my home burn to the ground...Hmm tis a tough one.

 

Alright, it seems we've reached a compromise. The Darkspawn will leave, and Augustei will be solely responsible for all of Ferelden's physical labour. Nice work.

[Augustei]

Or be smart and take third option and flee from ferelden

Thats probably what I'd actually do, I hear Orlais is much nicer

[TheKomandorShepard]

Thats probably what I'd actually do, I hear Orlais is much nicer

Well depending on who you are if i were human i would try however i would prefer free marches because if you aren't noble in orlais it sucks for you.If i was elf i would also took free marches as well orlais and elves well would be bad for elf there , when kirkwall alienage wasn't so bad at least comparing to others.

[Mockingword]

Being able to save it in the first place with a funded and supplied army is always nice.. Plus the slavery can be ceased when the country has been saved.

Pfffffffffffffffft.

 

"Loghain's not a tyrannical despot! He can stop committing gross abuses anytime he wants!"

[Zack_Nero]

They do cause problems, no doubt about that. However, I see it as two different ways. The first being you telling them "no." That alone is enough for someone to break the rules, the wardens have a lot more free regin then most mages, so we you give a person freedom that never really had it, they will make poor choices. Only natural. Second being the people behind it, mages and non-mages will cause someone to go to that extreme. For whatever reason: fear, anger, despair, pride, or whatever.

[Palidane]

Man, I walked into this thread thinking I'd see the blind templar fanboys and the blind mage fanboys arguing in circles and taking cheap shots at each other. Instead, I get blind Loghain fanboys insisting that obviously selling elven slaves to Tevinter was a just and patriotic thing to do.

 

Never know what you're going to get on the BSN.

[Mockingword]

I do love cheap shots.

[Cobra's_back]

Man, I walked into this thread thinking I'd see the blind templar fanboys and the blind mage fanboys arguing in circles and taking cheap shots at each other. Instead, I get blind Loghain fanboys insisting that obviously selling elven slaves to Tevinter was a just and patriotic thing to do.

 

Never know what you're going to get on the BSN.

 

Going back several pages you will find people that believe genocide is the answer for mages. They also support slavery of elves and mages. It is scary and I really don't want one of them in government office.

[Cobra's_back]

I don't care if they were useful.

 

I would honestly prefer to see Ferelden overrun by darkspawn before I would ever endorse slavery.

 

I agree with you. The funds were not needed. Actually empowering the Elves to fight the darkspawn would have been the better pick. Scary how some people can't see this.

[Pateu]

Both Templars and Mages are bad.

 

Mages because they turn to Blood Magic and make the Templars take an '' I TOOOOOLD YOU SOOOO '' stance and Templars because they're the reason Mages turn to Blood Magic.

 

It's an endless cycle.

[Mockingword]

Going back several pages you will find people that believe genocide is the answer for mages. They also support slavery of elves and mages. It is scary and I really don't want one of them in government office.

Hahaha.

 

I don't think that's a concern.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Going back several pages you will find people that believe genocide is the answer for mages. They also support slavery of elves and mages. It is scary and I really don't want one of them in government office.

Hah becuase it is it solves every problem that mages are.

They won't be danger when they are dead after all...

Well such peoples already sit in goverment office you just don't know about it every society is built on pain and suffering other peoples like thats we have war as solution...

[Cobra's_back]

Hahaha.

 

I don't think that's a concern.

 

I like your sense of humor.

 

Remember this guy:

 

"KANSAS CITY, Mo. — In an effort to explain his stance on abortion, Representative Todd Akin, the Republican Senate nominee from Missouri, provoked ire across the political spectrum on Sunday by saying that in instances of what he called “legitimate rape,” women’s bodies somehow blocked an unwanted pregnancy.  

 

A crazy man in government

[EmissaryofLies]

So on limited hearsay and Act 3 developments, which would generally fail to constitute any sort of proof and is indisputably limited perspective, you make broad and absolute claims.
 
Good to see the need for support applies to me but not you.

 Cullen and Thrask actually support me, btw. You have someone who views tranquility as a mercy, participates in an annulment no questions asked. The same someone who doesn’t even see the mages as people, but weapons. I’m not sure he was protecting rather than keeping an eye on them, but I hardly blame him. And as Knight Captain he turned a blind eye to Alrik and Karras. Doesn’t even seem to give a damn when confronted about the tranquil solution. Protecting mages appears to be the least of his concerns. Due to his particular history of course. And then you have someone else who hid his daughter from the very circle where you claim that he can ‘protect mages’.

Funny how as a Kirkwall Templar the very first thing he does is to get his daughter as far away from the circle as possible. It says all that there needs to be said about such a place and about ‘protection’.

Tell me again about how ‘probable demise’ is not on the menu.
 

Incorrect. All you can show is that they did not protect those particular mages from abuse- you can show nothing about the prospect of off-screen abuses that did or did not happen.

There’s nothing to be incorrect about. They were not protecting the circle mages from abuses. That is where it begins and where it ends. Rescue/liberation does not equivocate protection. Not in the sense that you infer. 
 

We do know that Orsino knew what Quentin was researching because Quentin shared it (and the ritual) with him. We do know that Orisino knew that Quentin was a serial killer because Orsino admits to knowing it in the Templar ending. And we know that Orsino covered up this knowledge years before Meredith went crazy and sought annullment because Quentin was committing his crimes years beforehand.
 
If you think the undated nature of the letter renders it all meaningless... well, you've already established your intellectual integrity.

You do not have any proof whatsoever that Orsino maintained contact with Quentin when he learned what Quentin was doing. That’s what I’m claiming. That is what’s true. How exactly do you know that Orsino found about the murders as early as act one? Even then he's quoted as stating that he did not want Meredith to use Quentin as ammunition against the circle. Not to mention that he was entirely correct about Meredith's motivations and her goals, to a T.

The letter is also entirely vague; you do not know what Orsino is specifically referring to. Which is what makes it utterly worthless when you desire to prove that "Orsino conspired to hide maleficars from Meredith". As if it were due to ill intent and machinations. 
 
 

Meredith wanted annullment in Act 3. She never approved illegal tranquility. Orisino's coverup in Act 2 and as early as Act 1 can not claim fears of these threats of sanctioned harm that were never raised at the time.
 
And in case you missed it, Anders fears of the Tranquil Solution were grossly exagerated and mis-informed. A rather significant part of that mission was about how little his conviction and certainty had to do with reality.

 
Yet Thrask would risk his livelihood to protect his daughter from the Kirkwall Circle.

 

Also, the word probable does not infer that something is going to happen, just that it is possible or likely. What with the beatings, the rapes and the illegal tranquil. A demise of multiple varieties was most certainly in the cards for every single mage in that circle, especially mage girls who did not toe the line as Alrik himself claimed.

The fact that Alrik proposed this solution and did not appear to be so much as investigated for such actions renders Anders' fears perfectly valid. Alrik is only removed by the player, no one else. Who knows how many more mage girls would end up in his little harem.. All the while Karras rapes Alain... "They were protecting them". Sure. 
 

Which is not the same as claiming she is Kirkwall, which is what you were claiming before.

 

This pedantic, semantic, dodging and ducking is unbecoming.

She is Kirkwall, she runs Kirkwall. Elthina sat on her hands and put on a brave face in public, but she lost more and more power to Meredith over time. To the point where Meredith got to decide Kirkwall’s ruler, becoming the de facto Viscount while she searched for a puppet.Not to mention that you hear about Meredith from the city guards the second you step off the boat in Act 1 about who can and can’t be let into the city. 

Also notice how a lot of people in the game pretty much unanimously refer to Meredith whenever they refer to any kind of true authority in that city.

Meredith runs Kirkwall. Meredith is Kirkwall.

 
 

She also wasn't going to go ahead with illegal tranquility. She also could not prevent him from speaking in public or going to Elthina or receiving visitors such or the Champion. In even rudimentary police states, these are very basic signals of power.
 
Orsino doesn't need to be omnipotent (which is about the only standard of power that would allow him to prevent all abuses) to have power and influence. Nor does Orsino not having power enough to prevent Meredith from imposing on him mean he has none, or that Meredith is completely unchecked.
 
Which is evidence that he has power, and Meredith is limited, in the first place.
 
You can't have it both ways. Either Orsino is powerless and impotent, or he can openly denounce his jailor and most powerful woman in the city in public at the stairs of her boss.

No it isn’t; it isn't evidence of any significant power. Why do you think Meredith had a small troop of Templars following her to apprehend Orsino? He was likely sticking his neck out, as I claimed.

He defied Meredith. That is to say that he may or may not have had the authority to be out there in the first place. It certainly didn’t seem that he did when Meredith went on about ‘clapping him in irons’ and ‘making an example’ out of him. Which would have happened had Elthina not intervened. Maybe on paper he has great ‘power’. But as the wikia entry reinforces, that’s completely up to what the KC will allow or tolerate. 

I also never claimed or inferred that Orsino was powerless, I said "with what little he had" and "what Knight Commander crazy allotted him", try not to be so misleading.
 

This is a strawman fallacy. I have never claimed Orsino should do such.
 
What I condemned Orsino for doing was covering for mages even when the mages were guilty. Orsino would have much greater credibility to refute accusations of covering for mage criminals had he actually outed the mage criminal he knew about and not tried to cover up other potential mage criminals. He has no established credibility for turning in a mage in the wrong that the Templars don't already know about.

When did he do that? He did not know that the mages at midnight were practicing Maleficar, the majority weren’t btw. And Quentin was a special circumstance given the situation in Kirkwall. They both were. Any exposure to Meredith would have given her a better case for her precious annulment.

He could gamble with mage lives and expose Quentin to Meredith, sure.

A gamble that isn’t acceptable as per Meredith’s own inclinations and desperation to pin “Best Served Cold” onto Orsino. So her case for the annulment would be ever stronger.

“When prompted, he will reveal that he knew about Quentin but kept his existence secret so that he would not be used by Meredith as ammunition against the Kirkwall Circle.” - Dragon Age Wikia as per Dragon Age II.

It helps that he was entirely correct about Meredith in just about every word he said about her. And if this were Fereldan, I would jump on the "Duplicitous, Malevolent Orsino Bandwagon". But it isn’t. So I won’t.


We aren’t getting anywhere with this. It is clear that you see a totally different vision of Kirkwall than I.
 

[Cobra's_back]

Hah becuase it is it solves every problem that mages are.

They won't be danger when they are dead after all...

Well such peoples already sit in goverment office you just don't know about it every society is built on pain and suffering other peoples like thats we have war as solution...

 

I hate to break it to you but genocide isn't going to end the mage problem. You can only successfully pull this off if the mages were a different species or race. You must have forgotten that non magic humans produce mages. 

 

For example: If Connor would have died, Arl Eamon would produce another mage. Keep this up and you lose everyone's support. The Arl and others aren't going to give you their child so that you can kill it.