1407 réponses à ce sujet

[Xetykins]

Your solution would only lead to isolde burning the whole world burn instead of just redcliffe. Yes she was an idiot but your solution made her hide connor. Now if connor could live a normal life as a mage, do you think things in redcliffe will happen? No because she would be forthcoming and will actually seek appropriate education for her child. As it is normal parents would die trying to keep their children safe. And nevermind the mage kids, its always the parents protecting their children that are most dangerous and volatile.

THAT is the only reason why I've never killed isolde however much I hate her.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It is in fact that templars and chantry didn't do anything so peoples could hate mages i would say mages did everything so peoples could hate them and people don't need an excuse to hate.In fact chantry says that magic is gift (yeah right) from maker but also curse o chantry did nothing... Isolde was an idiot and that templars are wasting time watching instead hunting on mages.Hawke faimly existed only because malcolm hawke escaped from circle which in my system would be killed pretty much another reason why it is better kill mages than imprison them so they could escape and cause damage like anders or other mages...

There's little you can do that would be effective enough to get parents to hand their kids over for execution with a decent success rate. I'm somewhat cynical myself, but you're creeping me out with that assertion. If you're counting on lynch mobs to do what you want, fine, those already exist even with Templar discouragement, but I'm quite sure they're getting false positives and we know they're missing some mages. Some of these non-lynched mages are going to be because mages can heal, break rocks, and occasionally blow up some bandits or monsters or something. How likely is the group following "Levyn" to want him lynched, whether or not it turns out to be in their best interests? And even if the lynch mob forms or your group finds the mage, the fact remains that a mage might get in a lucky shot, go abomination, or know Rock Armor. Or that something really weird might happen to thwart the lynch mob (or your group) that your making it impossible to train the mage would be directly responsible for. Much less of this is a problem with the current system, though I'm not denying it has certain flaws.

 

And then there's the fact that the Templars are, according to Cullen, starting to run into resistance. Apparently at the tail end of DA2, he states that about half the city still approves of his men. I don't really remember the context, but I doubt this context is "you're a bunch of pansies and we intend to lynch the mages you're trying to capture." Seems to me that you're going to need to address the lack of regard for the Templars if you're trying to institute a more extreme group.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Your solution would only lead to isolde burning the whole world burn instead of just redcliffe. Yes she was an idiot but your solution made her hide connor. Now if connor could live a normal life as a mage, do you think things in redcliffe will happen? No because she would be forthcoming and will actually seek appropriate education for her child. As it is normal parents would die trying to keep their children safe. And nevermind the mage kids, its always the parents protecting their children that are most dangerous and volatile.

Yes and how she would do that did i forgot something and she have hidden death star?

My solution no she didn't want sent her son to circle which mean she was dumb with much more templars hunting on mages more likely that she would be found not mention that jowan would be dead... i would punish isolde severely and publicly same for any person that help mage...

 

 

There's little you can do that would be effective enough to get parents to hand their kids over for execution with a decent success rate. I'm somewhat cynical myself, but you're creeping me out with that assertion. If you're counting on lynch mobs to do what you want, fine, those already exist even with Templar discouragement, but I'm quite sure they're getting false positives and we know they're missing some mages. Some of these non-lynched mages are going to be because mages can heal, break rocks, and occasionally blow up some bandits or monsters or something. How likely is the group following "Levyn" to want him lynched, whether or not it turns out to be in their best interests? And never mind the fact that a mage might get in a lucky shot, go abomination, or know Rock Armor. Or that something really weird might happen to thwart the lynch mob that your making it impossible to train the mage would be directly responsible for.

 

And then there's the fact that the Templars are, according to Cullen, starting to run into resistance. Apparently at the tail end of DA2, he states that about half the city still approves of his men. I don't really remember the context, but I doubt this context is "you're a bunch of pansies and we intend to lynch the mages you're trying to capture." Seems to me that you're going to need to address the lack of regard for the Templars if you're trying to institute a more extreme group.

 

Not rly when peoples are pushed into difficult rarely chose someone overthemselves unless they are hardcore fanatics.Yes they are missing some mages even i don't count that i will kill 100 % of mages 80-90 % (and thats will reduce damage caused by mages) if done correctly and even then rest will have hard time living they will be forced live in wilderness not mention that mage without traning won't be able do those things... As i said i won't count only on angry mobs i will count on new anti-magical order who will hunt mages and will be focused entirely on hunting mages. 

 

Well i didn't saw that resistance in fact most hate mages , other ask for opionion hawke and if s/he won't take side they will hate mages as you would take meredith side in fact most of that who supported mages didn't do that for mages but just were angry that meredith took the power viscount.

 

Well i have to go so i won't answer now.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well i didn't saw that resistance in fact most hate mages , other ask for opionion hawke and if s/he won't take side they will hate mages as you would take meredith side in fact most of that who supported mages didn't do that for mages but just were angry that meredith took the power viscount.

 

 

Sorry. I'm allergic to nonsense.

[Xetykins]

Jowan will not be needed, remember that demons will actively seek mages on their own. Specially when theyre at their most vulnerable and under a lot of stress. Hunting them down like animals will just push them in that direction to protect themselves.
Very normal human response.

[HydroFlame20]

You guys are tickling me lol I just cant want to play this and be a mage and be as Evil as I can be And rule the World just for jokes but on my Serious playthrough I will be what keeps the peace and that can mean a number of factions that need to go.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Jowan will not be needed, remember that demons will actively seek mages on their own. Specially when theyre at their most vulnerable and under a lot of stress. Hunting them down like animals will just push them in that direction to protect themselves.
Very normal human response.

There's other things that will do that too, and not all of them are mage specific.

 

The solution I've been playing with is sort of like the evolution American cops started to go through recently (though they seem to have gone in an entirely different evolution post 9-11), where instead of being utter professionals whose faces don't matter even if you can see them the cop tries to be everyone's friend. He makes small talk, he cracks stupid jokes, if he finds himself responsible for a kid he hands the kid a toy. Most of all he tries to empathize with anyone who is in pain, physical or emotional. A large part of the reason Wynne finds the Circle palatable is because of the Templar who took her there who acted this way (the other guy needed some work), and because she eventually met a priest who did too. Anders, on the other hand, seems to have had Rylock. And of course the Kirkwall Circle will need to not have Alrik 2.0 working to guard them, if it's even rebuilt at all given that that seems to be a horrible place for a Circle.

[ladyoflate]

There's other things that will do that too, and not all of them are mage specific.

 

The solution I've been playing with is sort of like the evolution American cops started to go through recently (though they seem to have gone in an entirely different evolution post 9-11), where instead of being utter professionals whose faces don't matter even if you can see them the cop tries to be everyone's friend. He makes small talk, he cracks stupid jokes, if he finds himself responsible for a kid he hands the kid a toy. Most of all he tries to empathize with anyone who is in pain, physical or emotional. A large part of the reason Wynne finds the Circle palatable is because of the Templar who took her there who acted this way (the other guy needed some work), and because she eventually met a priest who did too. Anders, on the other hand, seems to have had Rylock. And of course the Kirkwall Circle will need to not have Alrik 2.0 working to guard them, if it's even rebuilt at all given that that seems to be a horrible place for a Circle.

 

I always thought a good idea for stabilization of the Circle system would be to move the families of the mages to a village near the tower-- that way, parents don't have to worry about their children being ripped from them and mages have a good amount of non-mage socialization. A good way to stabilize the templars would be to recruit heavily from mage families. An order is less likely to develop such a sociopathic mindset about the people it's in charge of if the order has close personal ties with said group.

[shodiswe]

It's not wonder that the veil is tearing appart all over the world.

There are a couple of things that can weaken the veil from the lore in game, books and what we're told.

Lot's of people dying weakens the veil.... War, darkspawn killing people... Wars, criminalactivity killing people on a large scale.

The killing of mages damages the veil even more than non magical people due to their strong connection to the fade, but every death, mage or not counts.

Demonic posession, abominations... Even Anders and his spirit is tearing on the Veil. Note how his friend Karl was brought back to normal because Justice manifested itself and punched a hole and weakened the veil and brought the fade there restoring Karl temporarily.

With the mage uprising, the subsequent slaying of mages by templars, wars and demonpoesessions that would follow in the footsteps of this now worldencompassing conflict would damage the veil quite a bit... No wonder it's breaking appart.

If anyone started it it was the Templars and their war on mages, and then the mages retaliation, and then desperation leadign to bloodmagic and demonic posessions and more death. The weaker the veil gets the more spirits can make it through and posess anything they can find in their path.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I always thought a good idea for stabilization of the Circle system would be to move the families of the mages to a village near the tower-- that way, parents don't have to worry about their children being ripped from them and mages have a good amount of non-mage socialization. A good way to stabilize the templars would be to recruit heavily from mage families. An order is less likely to develop such a sociopathic mindset about the people it's in charge of if the order has close personal ties with said group.

The village idea might be expensive, and the families in question might not wish to leave their homes permanently. Though visiting hours might be a wise idea in this direction, if the mages family visits or if such a village is established. (Maybe the best solution is a combination of the two, with a Templar run inn for those who can't or won't move but are willing to visit?) As for recruiting Templars from mage families, this might lead to Templars over-empathizing. While it's necessary for the Templars to see the mages as human (or equivalent to human, for the elves) the Templar needs to be willing to put a sword (or ideally an arrow or a bolt, both for mental health and not-getting-fragged reasons) through any mage in the Circle if it comes to that. (And I will also note that Gregoir screwed up spectacularly putting Cullen in charge of euthanizing a female PC in the Harrowing, even if it's unfortunate that Cullen had those feelings at all. Maybe Templars should be allowed to find non-mage lovers, to make this less likely?)

[ladyoflate]

The village idea might be expensive, and the families in question might not wish to leave their homes permanently. Though visiting hours might be a wise idea in this direction, if the mages family visits or moves in next door. As for recruiting Templars from mage families, this might lead to Templars over-empathizing. While it's necessary for the Templars to see the mages as human (or equivalent to human, for the elves) the Templar needs to be willing to put a sword through any mage in the Circle if it comes to that. (And I will also note that Gregoir screwed up spectacularly putting Cullen in charge of euthanizing a female PC in the Harrowing, even if it's unfortunate that Cullen had those feelings at all. Maybe Templars should be allowed to find non-mage lovers, to make this less likely?)

 

Templars are allowed non-mage lovers already. And marriages. They have to get permission, but it is allowed. Moving the families would be expensive, yes, but it's also the right thing to do. If a family refuses what is given, well, that's their choice. But they should have the option, no matter how poor, to stay together in at least some capacity.

 

I also don't know that the over-empathizing thing is an issue. The whole idea of the Harrowing, where you're tempted by a demon once and either die or are good forever, is a bit foolish. It leads to extreme stress in people about to undergo their Harrowing and a sense of overconfidence in people who have passed it. A better plan might be to monitor the mages in their Harrowings more closely-- we already know that it's possible, as that's the entire premise. If a person is starting to agree with the demon, you pull them out and spend a year reinforcing the idea that Demons Are Bad and then send them through the process again. That way, instead of fearing death, they'll fear only the demons. There does need to be a limit on how many times this can happen before it's discussed whether the person will ever be able to complete their Harrowing or not, but it is a reasonable thought.

 

To combat the idea that successfully Harrowed mages are forever secure against the temptations of demons, there needs to be a recertification process every few years for each mage. It also allows monitoring of if there's any changes in the type of demons that target a certain mage-- this process would almost definitely have caught out Uldred before it was too late, and measures could have been taken to stop him on that path.

 

Obviously, if a mage isn't pulled out in time and still fails their Harrowing under the current standards, then they will still be killed. But this is a duty that should go primarily to senior Templars, not ones that are relatively green as Cullen seems to be during the mage origin. You don't put someone's death in the hands of someone who doesn't fully accept the duty of doing it. And you also don't put someone's life in the hands of someone who is passionate about them, whether the passion is positive or negative.

[ManOfSteel]

I certainly wouldn't pass up the opportunity to rid Thedas of magic once and for all. 

[myahele]

I wonder what the passing rate of a harrowing is?

[HunterX6]

My solution to the mage problem is roughly like this (its might not be perfect but its the best I can think of right now with not too much details):

 

1) Babies who are born mages go to the circle of magi for training when they are at age (just like kids go to school from young age to adults, also they are allowed visits)

 

2) Once they reach a specific age, they have graduated and they have behaved well, they will be allowed to go to the world freely.

 

3) If they do a terrible crime with magic (depending on the crime) they will be re-educated again for a time and would be placed in a specific section of the circle that is kind of a prison until the person has done their time. Telling them there wont be another chance if they abuse their magic for terrible acts. for example: mind control.

 

4) Should they do another big crime then the options then would be either: Tranquil or death.

[HunterX6]

My solution to the mage problem is roughly like this (its might not be perfect but its the best I can think of right now with not too much details):

 

1) Babies who are born mages go to the circle of magi for training when they are at age (just like kids go to school from young age to adults, also they are allowed visits)

 

2) Once they reach a specific age, they have graduated and they have behaved well, they will be allowed to go to the world freely.

 

3) If they do a terrible crime with magic (depending on the crime) they will be re-educated again for a time and would be placed in a specific section of the circle that is kind of a prison until the person has done their time. Telling them there wont be another chance if they abuse their magic for terrible acts. for example: mind control.

 

4) Should they do another big crime then the options then would be either: Tranquil or death.

[Cobra's_back]

The village idea might be expensive, and the families in question might not wish to leave their homes permanently. Though visiting hours might be a wise idea in this direction, if the mages family visits or if such a village is established. (Maybe the best solution is a combination of the two, with a Templar run inn for those who can't or won't move but are willing to visit?) As for recruiting Templars from mage families, this might lead to Templars over-empathizing. While it's necessary for the Templars to see the mages as human (or equivalent to human, for the elves) the Templar needs to be willing to put a sword (or ideally an arrow or a bolt, both for mental health and not-getting-fragged reasons) through any mage in the Circle if it comes to that. (And I will also note that Gregoir screwed up spectacularly putting Cullen in charge of euthanizing a female PC in the Harrowing, even if it's unfortunate that Cullen had those feelings at all. Maybe Templars should be allowed to find non-mage lovers, to make this less likely?)

 

I like the cop idea, but I think the mages must be allowed to have a family if they wanted. I believe this was the breaking point for Hawk's dad and many others. If a mage had a child, that child was taken away. The child was the property of the Chantry. To me the system was doomed. Mages were the property of the Chantry. It couldn't work in the long run. Sooner or later something was going to break. I knew this playing DAO. I wasn't surprised there was a mage collective.

[DKJaigen]

My solution to the mage problem is roughly like this (its might not be perfect but its the best I can think of right now with not too much details):

 

1) Babies who are born mages go to the circle of magi for training when they are at age (just like kids go to school from young age to adults, also they are allowed visits)

 

2) Once they reach a specific age, they have graduated and they have behaved well, they will be allowed to go to the world freely.

 

3) If they do a terrible crime with magic (depending on the crime) they will be re-educated again for a time and would be placed in a specific section of the circle that is kind of a prison until the person has done their time. Telling them there wont be another chance if they abuse their magic for terrible acts. for example: mind control.

 

4) Should they do another big crime then the options then would be either: Tranquil or death.

 

They are all nice ideas. But the fundamental problem of the current circle is that the advances into magic is very slow and any knowledge surrounding magic is tainted by the chantry. What the circles need to is a pragmatic and methodical approach to magic until the circles have mastered their power. Improvements in the harrowing would be the first step as well as figuring a way to keep demons out of a mage's mind permanently.

 

Currently the chantry and templars opposes this . so a new secular organisation must be installed that is interwoven with the circle and their training regiment needs to be Beverly improved . As for justice 2 mages and 2 mundanes should judge a mage free from chantry bias. The mages in such a court will be able to judge how severe his magical crimes are something a mundane cannot do. Mundanes will make sure the court will be neutral.

[Auztin]

I just chalk it up say everyone & everything is dangerous.I might be bias because I'm misanthropic but it is correct.Mobs of mages are as dangerous as the next hitler army.What?People that rule like tyrants kills just as many people.Utopia is impossible.Emotions cause us problems.How about we make everyone tranquil,huh?Wait,we can't have that so let's see,ummm.Oh,I know stop bitching which side is right or wrong.There is no such thing.The only right & wrong that mean anything is on your little tests at school.It is a endless cycle of violence so kick me all(Mages & Templars) to the curb.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I also don't know that the over-empathizing thing is an issue. The whole idea of the Harrowing, where you're tempted by a demon once and either die or are good forever, is a bit foolish. It leads to extreme stress in people about to undergo their Harrowing and a sense of overconfidence in people who have passed it. A better plan might be to monitor the mages in their Harrowings more closely-- we already know that it's possible, as that's the entire premise. If a person is starting to agree with the demon, you pull them out and spend a year reinforcing the idea that Demons Are Bad and then send them through the process again. That way, instead of fearing death, they'll fear only the demons. There does need to be a limit on how many times this can happen before it's discussed whether the person will ever be able to complete their Harrowing or not, but it is a reasonable thought.

I was not worried about the Harrowing specifically, since I got the impression that mages aren't allowed to attempt it unless the FE and the KC are both pretty sure the mage will pass. (And because the head of the Templars and the head of the mages are apparently both required to be there, and while their work seems largely administrative they also tend to be the most powerful members of their groups.) I was more worried about spontaneous possession (happened to an FE once, so I think it can theoretically happen to anyone) or for that matter a mage just flipping out and torching people. Either of these can merit shooting an arrow through someone, though I'll admit the latter can be handled non-lethally. And if a mage needs to die, you don't want the person's brother to be the one to do it. Even if they go through with it, that would be horribly scarring.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Sorry. I'm allergic to nonsense.

 

Lol did you even played as pro-mage hawke because i did there is move (quest) against meredith for pro-mages still rebels (mostly nobles) have as motivation not well-being of mages only overthrowing meredith because she took viscount seat hell even if you support orsino nobles if you will talk to them won't care about mages most will talk only that hawke should be viscount or that meredith shouldn't be viscount. 

 

In fact there were only 2 individuals that did that for mage...   

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lol did you even played as pro-mage hawke because i did there is move (quest) against meredith for pro-mages still rebels (mostly nobles) have as motivation not well-being of mages only overthrowing meredith because she took viscount seat hell even if you support orsino nobles if you will talk to them won't care about mages most will talk only that hawke should be viscount or that meredith shouldn't be viscount.     

Yes I have. And we have said several times that just because an option exists doesn't make it canon.

 

And I was calling you out on the "most people who helped mages didn't do it for mages but to be against Meredith" thing.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yes I have. And we have said several times that just because an option exists doesn't make it canon.

 

And I was calling you out on the "most people who helped mages didn't do it for mages but to be against Meredith" thing.

And that was in case pretty much showed at the beginning of the act 3 and during quest i mentioned.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

I am largely pro mage, anyone who has read my posts or threads on that subject and remembers me will know that. But playing through DAO again... Mages really are trouble. My city elf is pretty okay with mages and magic early on, partly because she doesn't trust the Chantry to begin with because of their racism against elves and so their words about magic are disregarded by her. But she starts to get it over time. Soldier's peak's problems? Caused by a mage and a veil tear. Redcliffe's problems? Caused by a mage and a veil tear. Circle Tower? Caused by a mage and a veil tear. Brecilian Forest's problems? Caused by a mage cursing humans and a veil tear caused by an ancient war. Blackmarsh's problems? Caused by a mage and a veil tear.

 

Most of DAO's problems with the treaty's being upheld are caused by a mage (only things that aren't are the sacred ashes place and the Deep Roads). Even pro mage people like me have to admit... Magic and the fade really are just a constant stream of problems.

It's ok, andy69156915. Once my Inquisitor is done, the mages of Thedas will be pruned down to a small handful that will be kept as breeding stock for weapons to be used against the fade, bereft of any education and social indoctrination that isn't aimed primarily at breeding and killing demons. A smaller stock will be kept purely for medical research, to better fine-tune proper education and indoctrination methods via surgical methods.  

 

We'll keep these two incarcerated populations at a stable level, culling anything over that set number, and as for the random mages that will inevitably crop up in the general populace...well, we won't be bothering to give them the benefit of doubt, and they'll just be killed on sight. Unfortunately, it probably isn't possible to eliminate whatever genetic malfeasance causes this attunement to the Fade, but in ten years, I promise you the world will be a much safer place for the average human/elf/dwarf.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And that was in case pretty much showed at the beginning of the act 3 and during quest i mentioned.

I think you of all people would be understanding that not everyone agrees with what the protagonist does, Mr. "Why should Hawke feel sad when Leandra dies? That's stupid."

[TheKomandorShepard]

I think you of all people would be understanding that not everyone agrees with what the protagonist does, Mr. "Why should Hawke feel sad when Leandra dies? That's stupid."

Yep pretty much it is as it should be up to player how protagonist feels about things and others in RPG.

 

and well not mention what im saying that was in case...