1407 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Merril isn't possessed and Wynne doesn't have a demon (it's a spirit of Faith which are the good kind of spirits) inside her.

 

You have to kill every human, elf and Qunari in order to prevent mages from being born and people will still die and probably in great numbers because now diseases can't be healed and the Qunari will invade Thedas and cause a great numbers of death.

Yes because hawke and her plot-armor it is clear that she couldn't ressisst pride demon twice... normally she would be another abomnation encountered in a dark alley...

 

Doesn't matter spirits are as dangerous as demons anders proved it and wynne in asunder as well...

 

Why peoples love complicate everything with stupid solutions why kill everyone when we can kill mages? And i want mention that without mages technology progress will move forward as well medicine that in long-term is much superior than magic. Qunari will invade thedas anyway or not having nukes that explode constantly and doing huge damage to societies in thedas what prevents their progress for example like redcliff and thus theda is busy licking their wounds because of mages so they are less prepared because they have to handle destruction tht mages serve... Not mention that mages as far lost every their battle shwoing that their power is only exaggerated myth.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Not mention that mages as far lost every their battle shwoing that their power is only exaggerated myth.

 

Well, mages are the ones who has been holding back the Darkspawn and Qunari till now, so it's you who is exaggerating.

And besides, killing every mage is Thedas won't solve anything either, for reasons I have already stated (not to mention that it's simply too disgusting and cruel).

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well, mages are the ones who has been holding back the Darkspawn and Qunari till now, so it's you who is exaggerating.

And besides, killing every mage is Thedas won't solve anything either, for reasons I have already stated (not to mention that it's simply too disgusting and cruel).

Yes in stories for children along with that how mages can turn you into frog   in practice every their battle that we saw/read in da products with non-mages lead to their defeat,Same with wardens "best warriors in thedas" but they only were shining in keep and that only thanks to demons but in every other battle they got their ass kicked like durring blight or in daa and now they got massacred by inquisition like nothing.

 

And yes it will solve many problems if you don't want see that your problem many don't want see that because "ohoho genocide is evil!!!" but it will

eliminate abomnations entirely remove 2 out 3 ways that can visit thedas and that 2 ways are the easiest way for demon and most common way.Not mention that will prevent many disasters that mage bring to thedas... so yes it will solve many problems...

[Shaen Mac Tir]

I can't believe you are serious. And if you really are, well... I don't even know where to start. You obviously haven't given much thought to this issue.

I regret visiting this thread already...

[SomberXIII]

In Thedas, nobody is just and fair.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I can't believe you are serious. And if you really are, well... I don't even know where to start. You obviously haven't given much thought to this issue.

I regret visiting this thread already...

Yes im simple it is truth as far mages get their ass kicked either if it was small fight or battle... same for wardens

 

And well if you have problem killing mages will solve problem with abomnations and close 2 out 3 ways for demons yes it is truth... you may don't like it but it is...

[TTTX]

Yes because hawke and her plot-armor it is clear that she couldn't ressisst pride demon twice... normally she would be another abomnation encountered in a dark alley...

 

Doesn't matter spirits are as dangerous as demons anders proved it and wynne in asunder as well...

 

Why peoples love complicate everything with stupid solutions why kill everyone when we can kill mages? And i want mention that without mages technology progress will move forward as well medicine that in long-term is much superior than magic. Qunari will invade thedas anyway or not having nukes that explode constantly and doing huge damage to societies in thedas what prevents their progress for example like redcliff and thus theda is busy licking their wounds because of mages so they are less prepared because they have to handle destruction tht mages serve... Not mention that mages as far lost every their battle shwoing that their power is only exaggerated myth.

Never the less she isn't possessed so you can't use her as an example.

 

Well the good kind rarely possesses people and Wynne is stable for like 99% time nobody is perfect.

 

Because babies don't use magic it's first when people reach a certain age and people will still die even after you get ride off the mages and of course veil tears enjoy all the demons that's going to invade your new thedas so much for progress. Mages are necessary evil and people unlike you don't want to be monster just in order to kill kids.

[Sir DeLoria]

Well I think it was a growing problem over Thedas, probably because templars seems to get away with their crimes at this point and time, because the Seekers seems to be doing something else even the Lord Seeker focused all his attention on mages rather then the Templars he is suppose to keep in line.
 
Why thank you, your avi is awesome too, no idea what it is but it is awesome. 

Both sides should be persecuted for their crimes. The Ferelden Circle seemed great, the Templars just should've been a bit more attentive and stopped Uldred's conspiracy before it could be executed.

Thanks, it's Dragonslayer Ornstein from Dark Souls with his golden armor and huge plume

[TheKomandorShepard]

Never the less she isn't possessed so you can't use her as an example.

 

Well the good kind rarely possesses people and Wynne is stable for like 99% time nobody is perfect.

 

Because babies don't use magic it's first when people reach a certain age and people will still die even after you get ride off the mages and of course veil tears enjoy all the demons that's going to invade your new thedas so much for progress. Mages are necessary evil and people unlike you don't want to be monster just in order to kill kids.

As i said she fall to demon twice and only protagonist saved her and then keeper took arrow for her...

 

Yes nobody is perfect thats what i will say when terrorists will bow your city with your family    i mean she was stable for 99 % sorry that she burned your town nodbody is prefect

 

And yet most mages ends in circle so yes we can detect most mages despite that most templars waste time on wachting mages instead hunt on them what would increase detection efficiency.. 

 

Yes mages are necessary evil because they are giving us..... (1 h later) oh yes i know they destroy our community with disasters they are causing i mean without that it would be too easy move forward instead licking wounds after that and then war with qunari would be too easy...

[TTTX]

Yes im simple it is truth as far mages get their ass kicked either if it was small fight or battle... same for wardens

 

And well if you have problem killing mages will solve problem with abomnations and close 2 out 3 ways for demons yes it is truth... you may don't like it but it is...

Well until Demons find other ways to get out of the fade, because you cut them off their main way of getting out.

Evolution, you might heard about it.

 

 

I can't believe you are serious. And if you really are, well... I don't even know where to start. You obviously haven't given much thought to this issue.

I regret visiting this thread already...

Yeah, some people just don't have any sympathy killing people for what they might do is insane because then you would have to kill the entire human race by that logic.

[Lord Raijin]

I am largely pro mage, anyone who has read my posts or threads on that subject and remembers me will know that. But playing through DAO again... Mages really are trouble. My city elf is pretty okay with mages and magic early on, partly because she doesn't trust the Chantry to begin with because of their racism against elves and so their words about magic are disregarded by her. But she starts to get it over time. Soldier's peak's problems? Caused by a mage and a veil tear. Redcliffe's problems? Caused by a mage and a veil tear. Circle Tower? Caused by a mage and a veil tear. Brecilian Forest's problems? Caused by a mage cursing humans and a veil tear caused by an ancient war. Blackmarsh's problems? Caused by a mage and a veil tear.

 

Most of DAO's problems with the treaty's being upheld are caused by a mage (only things that aren't are the sacred ashes place and the Deep Roads). Even pro mage people like me have to admit... Magic and the fade really are just a constant stream of problems.

 

Mage this and mage that. It's so easy blaming every single problem on a mage. It seems to be like this in the Dragon Age world.

 

1) Soldier's peak problem was a Grey warden problem.

 

2) Redcliffe was a problem caused by irresponsible wealthy noble parents who refused to take their mage child to the Circle to be properly trained to use his powers. Instead they've secretly hired an inexperienced escaped blood mage to tutor their son, which didn't seem to go well. Do I blame Jowan or shall we blame the non-mages parents for not doing the right thing? Harboring an apostate is a serious crime after all, and according to Alistair all mages must be accountable by chantry and the laws of Ferelden.

 

3) Mages of the Circle wants to be free and want to have the same equal rights like anyone else. The mage who started this rampage was Uldred, a senior mage who is a  staunch Libertarian. He wanted the Circle to support Loghain Mac Tir claiming that Loghain would reward the Circle's support by granting the Circle more freedom from the Chantry. The fight started when Wynne revealed the Circle Loghain's treachery. Uldred and mages like him are fighting their own war... they're freedom fighters. How can they be the blame? Ganted what Uldred did was pretty stupid, for summoning a pride demon, but it would've never happen if the mages wasn't so overly oppressed. You tend to do stupid things under extreme  duress situation.

 

4) Brecilian Forest's problem was the result of a retaliation of men who caused an elf woman to commit suicide (The keepers daughter) because they've savagely raped her thus causing her to bare a child. Elves are getting a tad bit sick of tired of the mistreatment of humans.

 

As a pro mage the only problem I see are non-mages who are forcing mages to go into desperate situation.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well until Demons find other ways to get out of the fade, because you cut them off their main way of getting out.

Evolution, you might heard about it.

 

 

Yeah, some people just don't have any sympathy killing people for what they might do is insane because then you would have to kill the entire human race by that logic.

Yes and you know that how? no well to bad...

 

Well you mean thedas most would do that themselves other don't care and small amount of peoples that care won't be able do anything with it... What logic pal so if i kill minority that is dangerous to human race to save human race it is equal to killing human race to save human race plase...

 

Crap some peoples just don't love use logic only emotions with morals claiming that 2 + 2 = 5 because  5 is number as well...

[TTTX]

Yes and you know that how? no well to bad...

 

Well you mean thedas most would do that themselves other don't care and small amount of peoples that care won't be able do anything with it... What logic pal so if i kill minority that is dangerous to human race to save human race it is equal to killing human race to save human race plase...

 

Crap some peoples just don't love use logic only emotions with morals claiming that 2 + 2 = 5 because  5 is number as well...

How do you know they won't?

 

Hello Skynet.

[andy6915]

Mage this and mage that. It's so easy blaming every single problem on a mage. It seems to be like this in the Dragon Age world.

 

1) Soldier's peak problem was a Grey warden problem.

 

2) Redcliffe was a problem caused by irresponsible wealthy noble parents who refused to take their mage child to the Circle to be properly trained to use his powers. Instead they've secretly hired an inexperienced escaped blood mage to tutor their son, which didn't seem to go well. Do I blame Jowan or shall we blame the non-mages parents for not doing the right thing? Harboring an apostate is a serious crime after all, and according to Alistair all mages must be accountable by chantry and the laws of Ferelden.

 

3) Mages of the Circle wants to be free and want to have the same equal rights like anyone else. The mage who started this rampage was Uldred, a senior mage who is a  staunch Libertarian. He wanted the Circle to support Loghain Mac Tir claiming that Loghain would reward the Circle's support by granting the Circle more freedom from the Chantry. The fight started when Wynne revealed the Circle Loghain's treachery. Uldred and mages like him are fighting their own war... they're freedom fighters. How can they be the blame? Ganted what Uldred did was pretty stupid, for summoning a pride demon, but it would've never happen if the mages wasn't so overly oppressed. You tend to do stupid things under extreme  duress situation.

 

4) Brecilian Forest's problem was the result of a retaliation of men who caused an elf woman to commit suicide (The keepers daughter) because they've savagely raped her thus causing her to bare a child. Elves are getting a tad bit sick of tired of the mistreatment of humans.

 

As a pro mage the only problem I see are non-mages who are forcing mages to go into desperate situation.

 

 

None of that changes the fact that a mage and a veil tear was the main cause of not being able to easily get a treaty upheld. If not for magic and the Fade 3 out of 4 treaties would have taken a mere couple minutes to get support. The only one that would have needed extra work would be the dwarven one on account that it's the only one where magic wasn't the cause of the problem with getting support. Add all the context you want, it doesn't change the fact that DAO had 3/4 treaties made more complicated because of magic.

 

Think about it from the perspective of your warden. Would there not be a point at which your character is like "onto the next treaty, ten to one chance that a mage once again caused getting support far more complicated then it needed to be". It practically became a running gag throughout the game. Indeed for all the complaining people did about DA2 demonizing magic, DAO actually did that far worse when you think about it. Magic is behind more plot points in DAO than it was for DA2.

 

And yes I realize that Connor is the reason Eamon survived the poison... But he isn't actually vital to winning the landsmeet anyway if Darkspawn Chronicles is anything to go by (where the Ashes are never found and Teagon ends up taking Eamon's role on). So the only good thing a mage did for fufilling the treaties wasn't even that important or helpful.

[venusara]

Mages aren't the problem, demons are. There needs to be a way to kill all the demons

[TheKomandorShepard]

How do you know they won't?

 

Hello Skynet.

 

Because demons don't reproduce and i doubt that they can adapt as they can't see non-mages.

 

Skynet do you see skynet here?

 
 

[Lady Vael]

Mages aren't the problem, demons are. There needs to be a way to kill all the demons

Best to contact Sam and Dean, they're good with this sort of thing. Mages best behave themselves though, the Winchesters aren't very trusting of magic folk haha.

[andy6915]

Mages aren't the problem, demons are. There needs to be a way to kill all the demons

Yeah. Honestly, if the final DA gave the choice I would destroy the fade. Destroying the Fade would be the best solution. It might make every living thing in the world tranquil for several generations, but they would evolve back emotions eventually (like what probably happened to the dwarves, they have no Fade connection and yet have a full range of emotions).

 

Destroy the fade and demons and magic and mages all get taken care of permanently in one fell swoop. No more veil tears or demons or people being born as mages ever again. I'll feel bad for the nicer spirits of the Fade but... Eh. They're all just potential demons anyway like Justice was.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

There's nothing simple about that.

 

1) Would you kill your own child mercilessly if it turned our to be a mage?

2) Who will fight the Darkspawn if there is no mages? Who will make new Grey Wardens?

3) Who will stop the Qunari invasion, considering that the Qunari are far more sophisticated in weapons and military science?

4) So many deaths will inevitably cause the Veil to tear, and demons will be able to come into the world possessing corpses or objects, or in their true form.

5) It is inevitable that sooner or later mages will rise again, as many people would hide their children with magic in order to save them.

 

Is it worth the cost?

[Giggles_Manically]

Magic in and of itself is not the problem.

People and Demons however are.

 

People are the root cause of the issues at hand, without them magic would not have a conduit to use.

Mages like Irving and Wynne go there entire lives without becoming monsters, because they chose to.

 

Templars are people as well with all that entails.

Now without demons to harass people, and with a sane work over mages and magic things will probably work much better.

However there will ALWAYS be people who use magic to do horrible things and tear open people for blood.

 

To act like mages will not at times act like people is just not feasible. Either from panicing, or from other negative emotions a mage can and will do things that are illegal or dangerous.

 

Gaider was right in saying that it was an utterly gray issue with no right answer.

All we really can say is that the system as it existed was an utter failure that lead to what happened.

[TheKomandorShepard]

There's nothing simple about that.

 

1) Would you kill your own child mercilessly if it turned our to be a mage?

2) Who will fight the Darkspawn if there is no mages? Who will make new Grey Wardens?

3) Who will stop the Qunari invasion, considering that the Qunari are far more sophisticated in weapons and military science?

4) So many deaths will inevitably cause the Veil to tear, and demons will be able to come into the world possessing corpses or objects, or in their true form.

5) It is inevitable that sooner or later mages will rise again, as many people would hide their children with magic in order to save them.

 

Is it worth the cost?

 

1.Yep and most peoples hate mages so pretty much they would see them as their childrens not mention with anti-mage policy that punish such peoples as isolde and rewards peoples who help find mage it would be much easier.

2.Assuming that mages are necessary for joining i could spare few mages for grey wardens but they would have prepare joining and live in extremely controled environment.

3.Well surely not mages that lost their every battle and cause destruction and damge in almost every society in thedas.As i said many times humans will need to satisfy their needs will need use technology. 

4.Haha please it is desperate pro-mage argument thedas faced war , genocide and blights that death count was astronomical and veil stands still but death of tiny minority that is torning veil even quicker will torn veil? answer is no...

5.Dead peoples can't rebel and few mages won't be able do much about that as they will be forced live in wilderness and as i said many hate mages and with anti-mage policy it will be even easier...

 

Yes it is worth it because we will recive chance on stable society that will progress also removing huge victims of mages.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Missing the whole point here... ah well.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Missing the whole point here... ah well.

And point was?

[Shaen Mac Tir]

The point is, even with strong propaganda and heavy military control of the mages and society, there still will be those who will oppose the main course, and eventually it will break down, especially concerning Qunari threat from outside and the Veil being torn and thinned.

In any way, your theory won't work in "real" conditions, even if you assume it works in your head. But it won't. It will cause even greater destruction and death in time and it is obviously not a way out.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The point is, even with strong propaganda and heavy military control of the mages and society, there still will be those who will oppose the main course, and eventually it will break down, especially concerning Qunari threat from outside and the Veil being torn and thinned.

In any way, your theory won't work in "real" conditions, even if you assume it works in your head. But it won't. It will cause even greater destruction and death in time and it is obviously not a way out.

Of course they will but they will be a rarity with proper system and it won't be enough to be even challenge for system not mention to overthrow it... And as i said technology progress and lack of destruction done to communities will make thedas stronger... And veil being torn will be faster much faster with mages than without...

So yep my theory works especially that genocide isn't something uncommon in thedas so well good luck with that...