1407 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not to mention that the nobles who do hide their children have a means to fight back against the Chantry if it comes down to it. This also makes the Chantry antagonistic in more than just mage eyes. 

Yeah how when they will ****** off rest of population and nobles add to that anti-mages good luck for them...

In fact this is already seen even nobles can't do crap besides hiding mage and prying that templars won't find that out.

Hell just look at amell family who were strongest noble family in kirkwall having simple mage in family ruined them...

[EmissaryofLies]

Yeah how when they will ****** off rest of population and nobles add to that anti-mages good luck for them...

In fact this is already seen even nobles can't do crap besides hiding mage and prying that templars won't find that out.

Hell just look at amell family who were strongest noble family in kirkwall having simple mage in family ruined them...

 

Fair point. 

 

But things would be different when you seek to simply murder mages for being mages. A lot would get behind it. But a minority would oppose it. Some of whom will be in powerful positions. 

 

Magical genes do not appear to discriminate quite often.

[Cobra's_back]

I'd like to go old testament on Thedas. The place really needs a clean slate. 

 

Sounds good to me. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Fair point. 

 

But things would be different when you seek to simply murder mages for being mages. A lot would get behind it. But a minority would oppose it. Some of whom will be in powerful positions. 

 

Magical genes do not appear to discriminate quite often.

 

As i said there might be resistance but it will be very small and won't be able do much when i want even increase reluctance towards mages.Even now having mage in family is seen as disgrace i doubt that many nobles those with mage childrens would protect them even simple for their convenience and safety.

 

I can deal with such peoples as i can deal with outlaws...  pretty much rest of society will kick out such person...

[EmissaryofLies]

Exactly, you doubt that many nobles would protect. That doesn't cover all or even most. Even the current state of mages in Andrastian soceity was enough to make Isolde hide Connor from the circle. It was enough for Thrask to do the same.

 

People like this will increase in number when you seek to murder their children. 

 

You also run the risk of your anti-magical force crumbling from within due to certain members hiding mage children and actively working against their comrades. Members who might even be running the organization. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Exactly, you doubt that many nobles would protect. That doesn't cover all or even most. Even the current state of mages in Andrastian soceity was enough to make Isolde hide Connor from the circle. It was enough for Thrask to do the same.

 

People like this will increase in number when you seek to murder their children. 

 

You also run the risk of your anti-magical force crumbling from within due to certain members hiding mage children and actively working against their comrades. Members who might even be running the organization. 

 

Isolde and Tharsk were idiots new anti-mage policy will severely punish such peoples like isolde not mention that previous system was focused on watching mages not hunting them so most templars was watching mages now every anti-mage will hunt on mage so it will make easier to find one.Also detection of mage and telling anti-mages about it will be rewarded so it will also feed on greed another human flaw.

 

And as i said it won't because as i pointed above i will increase hate and fear of mages , as well fear of punishment and encourage population to selling mage for reward well if person is poor they need money desperately if person have a lot money they want more.

 

And as i said i want create new anti-magical order anti-mages who will be trained from child will be teached to be ruthless and kill mages without remorse so we don't have peoples like thrask...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

And when the First Warden greenlights you, your response will be?

[TheKomandorShepard]

And when the First Warden greenlights you, your response will be?

Well i wanted kill bastard since daa so well... in fact it is possible that we will have to kill him as possessing or controlling first warden would be smart thing to do for corry.

If he will have problem i will chop him onto pieces along with rest wardens that we will kill in dai and put on his place someone competent and focused on darkspawn not political power.

[fhs33721]

Meh small sample

Not a very representative example. Excpet for the first guy all of them are just the Yes-man in the beginning of act free, who basically just repeat everything you said in the fight between Meredith and Orsino, because you are the Champion. If you side with Orsino they talk about how Meredith is out of line and about not all mages being bad.

That being said your point that most people in Thedas are against mages is actually true. I'm just urging you to research actaul valid proof of it next time.

 

Also the point stands that many parents wouldn't hand over their children to be killed. Isolde, the Hawkes, Fenriels mother, Ser Thrask and Meredith parents, Comtesse DeLancet all tried to hide their children from the templars. And they just wanted to spare them the circle. The number might significally rise if you outright kill the mage children. You apparently underestimate the love many parents feel for the children they raise.

 

And that are just those that actually live under Chantry rule. The Dalish would most likely never hand their mage children over to get them killed and neither would Tevinter. The latter would just laugh at you and trhrow fireballs in your face. Hell not even the qunari would agree to your  ridicioulous plan for that matter.

 

Isolde and Tharsk were idiots new anti-mage policy will severely punish such peoples like isolde not mention that previous system was focused on watching mages not hunting them so most templars was watching mages now every anti-mage will hunt on mage so it will make easier to find one.Also detection of mage and telling anti-mages about it will be rewarded so it will also feed on greed another human flaw.

 

And as i said it won't because as i pointed above i will increase hate and fear of mages , as well fear of punishment and encourage population to selling mage for reward well if person is poor they need money desperately if person have a lot money they want more.

 

And as i said i want create new anti-magical order anti-mages who will be trained from child will be teached to be ruthless and kill mages without remorse so we don't have peoples like thrask...

 

Well if thats your strategy you won't be making it very far. If you severly punish nobles like Isolde (no matter how stupid she was) you'll make yourself very few friends among their common noble peers. If you pull of things like that too often You'll find yourself with a dagger in your back soon enough. And don't give me any nonsense about how you'd be badass enough to kill everyone who tries. Everyone has to sleep sometimes.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well i wanted kill bastard since daa so well... in fact it is possible that we will have to kill him as possessing or controlling first warden would be smart thing to do for corry.

If he will have problem i will chop him onto pieces along with rest wardens that we will kill in dai and put on his place someone competent and focused on darkspawn not political power.

Nobody who is focused on the darkspawn will allow you to carry out such a plan. Nor do you have a chance of building an organization that spans throughout Thedas if one that already exists on the scale you desire to cannot continue to exist if they don't thwart you. Have you forgotten that the Wardens use magic for the Joining? Either as a supplement or as a necessary ingredient? And that they use mages as members? For that matter, has it not occurred to you that the Wardens can probably afford to hire every Crow if they think they even can lose this one? Nor is it a good thing for Thedas if you succeed in rebuilding the Wardens in such a way.

[Bizantura]

It is good to know that the "angst" for diversity is a complete mimic of the real world.  Sad, oh so sad.  Even if humanity could be programmed like good robots to act and think alike they would propably still find reasons to kill one another.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not a very representative example. Excpet for the first guy all of them are just the Yes-man in the beginning of act free, who basically just repeat everything you said in the fight between Meredith and Orsino, because you are the Champion. If you side with Orsino they talk about how Meredith is out of line and about not all mages being bad.

That being said your point that most people in Thedas are against mages is actually true. I'm just urging you to research actaul valid proof of it next time.

 

Also the point stands that many parents wouldn't hand over their children to be killed. Isolde, the Hawkes, Fenriels mother, Ser Thrask and Meredith parents, Comtesse DeLancet all tried to hide their children from the templars. And they just wanted to spare them the circle. The number might significally rise if you outright kill the mage children. You apparently underestimate the love many parents feel for the children they raise.

 

And that are just those that actually live under Chantry rule. The Dalish would most likely never hand their mage children over to get them killed and neither would Tevinter. The latter would just laugh at you and trhrow fireballs in your face. Hell not even the qunari would agree to your  ridicioulous plan for that matter.

 

 

Well if thats your strategy you won't be making it very far. If you severly punish nobles like Isolde (no matter how stupid she was) you'll make yourself very few friends among their common noble peers. If you pull of things like that too often You'll find yourself with a dagger in your back soon enough. And don't give me any nonsense about how you'd be badass enough to kill everyone who tries. Everyone has to sleep sometimes.

 

Well not rly if you are pro-templar or neutral their opinion is the same as in video if you are pro-mage they still aren't mage lovers they support overthrowing meredith and hawke as viscount not mages in fact if you support orsino you got rebel quest not from nobles not because they support mages but as i said they support overthrowing meredith.Pretty much many times pointed that mages are hated and kick out from their families after they see that child is a mage not only in games but also in books.And i intendchange that by well using religion to increase hate and fear toward mages and i can use also current situation as something that mages caused.   

 

And what dalish will be able to do just hunt them as well they are so small in numbers and divided not mention that dales stay far from society.It is like punishing outlaw if they do that they are outlaw not and then his noble status is gone which pretty much also will be shame for family and by that even own family will turn on such person.Pretty much you brake law you are punished.Well i don't see nobles throwing their lives for mages hehe so well... 

 

 

Nobody who is focused on the darkspawn will allow you to carry out such a plan. Nor do you have a chance of building an organization that spans throughout Thedas if one that already exists on the scale you desire to cannot continue to exist if they don't thwart you. Have you forgotten that the Wardens use magic for the Joining? Either as a supplement or as a necessary ingredient? And that they use mages as members? For that matter, has it not occurred to you that the Wardens can probably afford to hire every Crow if they think they even can lose this one? Nor is it a good thing for Thedas if you succeed in rebuilding the Wardens in such a way.

A lot mages supporters or at least peoples desperate trying tell me that killing all mages won't work use joining as excuse but still where it is stated that joining needs magic i never have see it and when i ask about prove no one provide response.So joining may as well be alchemy , even if mage is necessary always can spare few mages in extremely controlled conditions.Not mention that we are killing wardens now i don't see problems in killing few that will have problem with that and i doubt that going against everyone for few mages is something smart for wardens to do...

 

Crows you mean that guys who i was killing like any other peoples well good luck for them...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

A lot mages supporters or at least peoples desperate trying tell me that killing all mages won't work use joining as excuse but still where it is stated that joining needs magic i never have see it and when i ask about prove no one provide response.So joining may as well be alchemy , even if mage is necessary always can spare few mages in extremely controlled conditions.Not mention that we are killing wardens now i don't see problems in killing few that will have problem with that and i doubt that going against everyone for few mages is something smart for wardens to do...

 

Crows you mean that guys who i was killing like any other peoples well good luck for them...

You see a mage at Ostagar shortly before the Joining who claims to have been helping the Wardens, and Duncan states that he used mages in the Joining. Whether or not the mages are needed, they are clearly used. Never mind that the Wardens also use mages in combat. In short, you will need to spare at least a few mages if you don't want to find a Warden in your bedroom holding a pillow over your nose.

 

You keep killing Crows in straight up fights. If you had to kill them literally in your sleep things might get interesting. And if the First Warden pulls the Godzilla Threshold option of using all the Crows, one of them will think of this. Edit: Or they'll burn down your fortress in the night. Or they'll alternate these plans until one sticks.

[TheKomandorShepard]

You see a mage at Ostagar shortly before the Joining who claims to have been helping the Wardens, and Duncan states that he used mages in the Joining. Whether or not the mages are needed, they are clearly used. Never mind that the Wardens also use mages in combat. In short, you will need to spare at least a few mages.

 

You keep killing Crows in straight up fights. If you had to kill them literally in your sleep things might get interesting. And if the First Warden pulls the Godzilla Threshold option of using all the Crows, one of them will think of this.

 

As far i renember only that mages are preparing joining not necessary it could be just alchemy and mages were only as they are trained in that unlike most peoples.And still no need for mages in wardens rank only for joining reasons if mages are required at all. 

 

Another thing inq is only person that can fix veil it would be stupid thing for them to do another zevran is in war with them and single person that kick ther backs , third their reputation is exaggerated.Still they couldn't kill the warden in sleep neither they could Zevran and in fact both hawke and warden crushed them when they had much more peoples on their side...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

As far i renember only that mages are preparing joining not necessary it could be just alchemy and mages were only as they are trained in that unlike most peoples.And still no need for mages in wardens rank only for joining reasons if mages are required at all. 

 

Another thing inq is only person that can fix veil it would be stupid thing for them to do another zevran is in war with them and single person that kick ther backs , third their reputation is exaggerated.Still they couldn't kill the warden in sleep neither they could Zevran and in fact both hawke and warden crushed them when they had much more peoples on their side...

Okay, suppose that non-mages can do the Joining as well as mages can. Why are mages doing it? If it's one of those magical skills that don't require mages (such things do exist in this setting) you'd think Duncan would figure out how to do it himself so as to keep the use of darkspawn blood as secret as possible. Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead. As for ordering them to hand over their mages for execution, the First Warden might consider that greenlight material in itself.

 

Mages have shown some ability to close Veil Tears, and whether or not mages are needed for the Joining (this is more likely than you seem to think) the Circles have shown the training needed for the Joining. You can't handle the disaster they're used for, and the First Warden could credibly believe that they can handle yours. You have a weaker position than you think.

 

And none of the PCs have shown any ability to fight off an attack that comes in their sleep. So far as I'm aware, every single Crow attack has come while the PC was awake. The closest we've come to this was the shriek attack in the night, and the only ones who seem to have been asleep for this were the Wardens. Nor were they asleep when the attack started. If you manage to persuade the Wardens that you are worth the money to hire every Crow, some of them will think to do this, and you will die. If not the first time, then maybe the tenth.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Okay, suppose that non-mages can do the Joining as well as mages can. Why are mages doing it? If it's one of those magical skills that don't require mages (such things do exist in this setting) you'd think Duncan would figure out how to do it himself so as to keep the use of darkspawn blood as secret as possible. Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead. As for ordering them to hand over their mages for execution, the First Warden might consider that greenlight material in itself.

 

Mages have shown some ability to close Veil Tears, and whether or not mages are needed for the Joining (this is more likely than you seem to think) the Circles have shown the training needed for the Joining. You can't handle the disaster they're used for, and the First Warden could credibly believe that they can handle yours. You have a weaker position than you think.

 

And none of the PCs have shown any ability to fight off an attack that comes in their sleep. So far as I'm aware, every single Crow attack has come while the PC was awake. The closest we've come to this was the shriek attack in the night, and the only ones who seem to have been asleep for this were the Wardens. Nor were they asleep when the attack started. If you manage to persuade the Wardens that you are worth the money to hire every Crow, some of them will think to do this, and you will die. If not the first time, then maybe the tenth.

Does duncan looks like alchemist besides that duncan have to deal with other things as he is grey warden commander? EE only inq can fix veil pretty much it exmplains why veil in circles are weak and why mages couldn't fix it.

 

Well they would if they could after all if they could kill the warden they could but still they couldn't. As i said their reputation is exaggerated not mention that we have a lot peoples unlika like the warden or hawke.

 

And as i said it is dumb to attack only person that can save the world and crows aren't very competent as even zevran single person wins war with them.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Does duncan looks like alchemist besides that duncan have to deal with other things as he is grey warden commander? EE only inq can fix veil pretty much it exmplains why veil in circles are weak and why mages couldn't fix it.

 

Well they would if they could after all if they could kill the warden they could but still they couldn't. As i said their reputation is exaggerated not mention that we have a lot peoples unlika like the warden or hawke.

 

And as i said it is dumb to attack only person that can save the world and crows aren't very competent as even zevran single person wins war with them.

If not Duncan, then Alistair. Or any of the other half-dozen Wardens. Or they import a Warden who can do it. Point is, if there wasn't a concrete reason for the mages to be allowed to be in on this, they probably wouldn't be.

 

I'm not denying that the Crows come off looking bad, but if every single one came at you, one of them would have a bright idea. And they only have to have one. And it's not like it's the first time the Crows have gotten in the way of someone who can save the world in the name of someone who can't.

 

And that war Zevran's winning against them? He's not fighting stupidly and head-on like you seem inclined to. He's sneaking around them, and striking where they're vulnerable. And if the Wardens conclude that their mission requires you to die, either the Crows, the Wardens, or someone else is going to do the same to you. And if Zevran finds out what you're doing (possibly from the two Crow masters he has turned), and that every Crow is coming after you, there's every chance he'll put things on hold. Don't forget that unless he comes to view the Warden as a friend, he cannot survive the events of Origins.

[fhs33721]

Well not rly if you are pro-templar or neutral their opinion is the same as in video if you are pro-mage they still aren't mage lovers they support overthrowing meredith and hawke as viscount not mages in fact if you support orsino you got rebel quest not from nobles not because they support mages but as i said they support overthrowing meredith.Pretty much many times pointed that mages are hated and kick out from their families after they see that child is a mage not only in games but also in books.And i intendchange that by well using religion to increase hate and fear toward mages and i can use also current situation as something that mages caused.   

 

One of those nobles says something along the lines of : "I have a niece in the circle. Not all mages are evil" if you side with Orsino. That does sound rather mage-friendly. Again those people seem to be complete yes-persons that just agree with whatever you say.

 

And yes there are some examples of children being kicked out and hated by their family. I never argued against that. But there are also many examples of parents not acting that way as well, as I pointed out in my former post. You just choose to ignore those examples because they don't fit into your narrow black and white view of mages=bad news for everyone and everyone should hate them and no mages=joy and happiness for all of thedas.

 

 

Another thing inq is only person that can fix veil it would be stupid thing for them to do another zevran is in war with them and single person that kick ther backs , third their reputation is exaggerated.Still they couldn't kill the warden in sleep neither they could Zevran and in fact both hawke and warden crushed them when they had much more peoples on their side...

So you intend to hunt down every single mage while the veil is still torn? Oh man, demons will already have overrun the world by the time you are done. Good job you sacrificed Thedas for as pointless crusade that should better have waited until the more pressing threat was out of the way. Way to go.

Seriously if you could ever get to pull off your anti-mage plans it would have to be after the veil crisis was resolved and then there would be nothing to stop people from trying to kill you any more.

 

Also closing veil tears...Hmm that sounds like magic is involved... Oh my god you must be a mage. Quick kill yourself before you turn into an abomination or cause some sort of desaster.  After all we can't have any mages escape the cleansing right?

[TheKomandorShepard]

If not Duncan, then Alistair. Or any of the other half-dozen Wardens. Or they import a Warden who can do it. Point is, if there wasn't a concrete reason for the mages to be allowed to be in on this, they probably wouldn't be.

 

I'm not denying that the Crows come off looking bad, but if every single one came at you, one of them would have a bright idea. And they only have to have one. And it's not like it's the first time the Crows have gotten in the way of someone who can save the world in the name of someone who can't.

 

And that war Zevran's winning against them? He's not fighting stupidly and head-on like you seem inclined to. He's sneaking around them, and striking where they're vulnerable. And if the Wardens conclude that their mission requires you to die, either the Crows, the Wardens, or someone else is going to do the same to you.

Aren't wardens fighters not mention that Alistair was warden for very short amount of time perhaps those were warden mages and as i said alchemy as far fits mages best... It rather tooks time to learn such skills...

 

Well only 1 example of crow attacking such person was in the warden case and thats is because they thought loghain guy with army was better chance than 2 wardens.

 

And yet he is went against them and is winning and they send everyone after him and still can kill him and i never said that he fought 1 vs everyone in 1 battle.

 

 

One of those nobles says something along the lines of : "I have a niece in the circle. Not all mages are evil" if you side with Orsino. That does sound rather mage-friendly. Again those people seem to be complete yes-persons that just agree with whatever you say.

 

And yes there are some examples of children being kicked out and hated by their family. I never argued against that. But there are also many examples of parents not acting that way as well, as I pointed out in my former post. You just choose to ignore those examples because they don't fit into your narrow black and white view of mages=bad news for everyone and everyone should hate them and no mages=joy and happiness for all of thedas.

 

So you intend to hunt down every single mage while the veil is still torn? Oh man, demons will already have overrun the world by the time you are done. Good job you sacrificed Thedas for as pointless crusade that should better have waited until the more pressing threat was out of the way. Way to go.

Seriously if you could ever get to pull off your anti-mage plans it would have to be after the veil crisis was resolved and then there would be nothing to stop people from trying to kill you any more.

 

Also closing veil tears...Hmm that sounds like magic is involved... Oh my god you must be a mage. Quick kill yourself before you turn into an abomination or cause some sort of desaster.  After all we can't have any mages escape the cleansing right?

1 rest said they want hawke in charge not meredith same one if you are neutral or pro-templar says that mages need to be taught lesson and pretty much even if they are yes man it even fits better for me as thats what i need

 

I would say that majority of them hate not some kick them out and as i said all peoples could do is hide mage family member and prey that templars didn't found that.I didn't ingore that as i said many times that some will do that which i 1000 times provided answer on that matter... Black and white haha please now you know how i see that seems like others you try tell me what i think and try make that sound stupid... First i see mages are negative sure because they are negative do i think that i will create utopia nope but i will able to bring stability and remove constant danger for the world that mages present...

 

First i will fix the veil and if any mage will cross my way then they are dead but i intend do that after problem with veil so well another thing that you try pull into my mouth to sound stupid and found even desperate arguments to show that my plan won't work... despite that i said that i intend use veil problem as excuse to deal with mages.

 

After that i will be hero same as mage warden or mage hawke so well heh good luck with that...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

In real life and in Thedas, what TKS would want to do would result in his assassination within the year.

[MisterJB]

Could we please discuss this for a few pages without plotting mass murder and/or ganging up on TKS?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Could we please discuss this for a few pages without plotting mass murder and/or ganging up on TKS?

He keeps doing the former and needing the latter.

 

Edit: But fine. Mages are legitimately dangerous, and are not as useful as in other settings. My idea for solving the former problem (since I don't know what to do about the latter) would look a good deal like the Circles, but I'd try to be reasonable about it. The main change I'd make is that I'd try to drill into the Templars minds that these people are human or equivalent to such, though I'd also see what could be done about allowing such mages as had earned some trust to enjoy greater freedoms. Wynne, Velanna, and Anders all had essentially free run in Amaranthine, after all, and while the city can be a smoking ruin that's not any of their fault. On the other hand, the Circles can't be disbanded entirely. A mage who isn't trained really can cause serious devastation, and even trained mages are never entirely out of danger. On that if nothing else, I agree with TKS. My solution is not perfect, but I've given up on finding a solution that is.

[Hellion Rex]

Ummmm....Tranquility bad, but necessary?

[TheKomandorShepard]

In real life and in Thedas, what TKS would want to do would result in his assassination within the year.

How many assassination attempts Hitler faced and survived despite guy went against entire world i would want to see how many AA would face guy who would go against hated minority and only guy that can save the world.
 

[Divine Justinia V]

He keeps doing the former and needing the latter.

I've never seen someone describe it so perfectly