@TKS: When I said Allies, I'm referring to the group of nations who banded together to defeat the Axis Nations. America, Britain, China, France, and Soviet Union to name the bigger players.
To be honest i doubt that was in case but well they would never admit it...
Mages and the veil may cause a lot of problems, but non-mages cause just as many. Purges on the alienages, blatant racism from elf to human, human to elf, and so on. Violence weakens the veil, and enough of it can sunder it and bring demons into the world, like the orphanage in Denerim's alienage. Or the Exalted March against the Qunari in Rivain, which was then subsequently denied.
Orzammar has plenty of problems, and not one of them seem to have a magical origin, or a veil-related one.
To be honest i doubt that was in case but well they would never admit it...
Why would they not admit that they sent assassins after the most hated man of all time when each nation admits to taking out smaller dictators?
Mages and the veil may cause a lot of problems, but non-mages cause just as many. Purges on the alienages, blatant racism from elf to human, human to elf, and so on. Violence weakens the veil, and enough of it can sunder it and bring demons into the world, like the orphanage in Denerim's alienage. Or the Exalted March against the Qunari in Rivain, which was then subsequently denied.
Orzammar has plenty of problems, and not one of them seem to have a magical origin, or a veil-related one.
Darkspawn are their biggest problem and was caused by mages.
And yes war is common in thedas still war is fight for dominance not for sake destruction and still war can't be caused by single individual this requires at least thousands following that individual... and then another with army.
1 mage can cause world scale danger 1 non-mage can at worst kill neighbor...
Why would they not admit that they sent assassins after the most hated man of all time when each nation admits to taking out smaller dictators?
Well because they failled and telling that you tried kill someone isn't smart thing when that person is still alive.
Mages and the veil may cause a lot of problems, but non-mages cause just as many. Purges on the alienages, blatant racism from elf to human, human to elf, and so on. Violence weakens the veil, and enough of it can sunder it and bring demons into the world, like the orphanage in Denerim's alienage. Or the Exalted March against the Qunari in Rivain, which was then subsequently denied.
Orzammar has plenty of problems, and not one of them seem to have a magical origin, or a veil-related one.
Agree with this completely.
Darkspawn are their biggest problem and was caused by mages.
Dwarves don't believe Darkspawn were caused by mages.
Well because they failled and telling that you tried kill someone isn't smart thing when that person is still alive.
Um, Hitler died in 1945.
Dwarves don't believe Darkspawn were caused by mages.
Well and from where? either you trying bull me or i missed that. Besides in what they belive doesn't matter blight still was caused by magisters...
Um, Hitler died in 1945.
Well trying killing someone when person is dead may be rather hard don't you think? 
Im saying about FAA on Hitler when he was alive.
Well and from where? either you trying bull me or i missed that. Besides in what they belive doesn't matter blight still was caused by magisters...
From the Codex if you play as a Dwarf:
The surfacers claim that the first darkspawn fell from heaven. They spin tales of magic and sin. But the Children of the Stone know better. The darkspawn rose up out of the earth. For it was in the Deep Roads they first appeared. Creatures in our own likeness, armed and armored, but with no more intelligence than tezpadam, bestial and savage.
At first they were few, easily hunted and slain by our warriors. But in the recesses of the Deep Roads, they grew in numbers and in courage. Our distant thaigs came under attack, and now it was the army, not a few warriors, being sent to deal with the creatures. Victories still came easily, though, and we thought the threat would soon be over.
We were wrong.
--As told by Shaper Czibor.
From the wiki:
The dwarves give little credit to Chantry beliefs, but they themselves have no known origin story for the darkspawn. As far as the dwarves are concerned, the darkspawn simply appeared. The darkspawn hordes that invaded the Deep Roads ended up crippling the dwarven empire, leaving only Orzammar and Kal-Sharok, the latter of which was completely isolated from the outside world until recently.
From the Codex if you play as a Dwarf:
The surfacers claim that the first darkspawn fell from heaven. They spin tales of magic and sin. But the Children of the Stone know better. The darkspawn rose up out of the earth. For it was in the Deep Roads they first appeared. Creatures in our own likeness, armed and armored, but with no more intelligence than tezpadam, bestial and savage.
At first they were few, easily hunted and slain by our warriors. But in the recesses of the Deep Roads, they grew in numbers and in courage. Our distant thaigs came under attack, and now it was the army, not a few warriors, being sent to deal with the creatures. Victories still came easily, though, and we thought the threat would soon be over.
We were wrong.
--As told by Shaper Czibor.
From the wiki:
The dwarves give little credit to Chantry beliefs, but they themselves have no known origin story for the darkspawn. As far as the dwarves are concerned, the darkspawn simply appeared. The darkspawn hordes that invaded the Deep Roads ended up crippling the dwarven empire, leaving only Orzammar and Kal-Sharok, the latter of which was completely isolated from the outside world until recently.
Thanks i didn't know that but it seems it is like dalish version of how war was looking in reality.Here chantry have point we already know that but in fact that may don't be wrong version because dwarves could first meet darkspawn on deep roads.
Thanks i didn't know that but it seems it is like dalish version of how war was looking in reality.Here chantry have point we already know that but in fact that may don't be wrong version because dwarves could first meet darkspawn on deep roads.
You're welcome.
I think it's about time to shut this thing down... bringing up Hitler as a good example for anything is a big f%#&ing warning sign. 
I think it's about time to shut this thing down... bringing up Hitler as a good example for anything is a big f%#&ing warning sign.
Is your avatar a DA version of The Road to El Dorado?
"Simply appeared" does not denote an alternative belief in the origin of the Darkspawn; rather, it shows that the dwarves have no idea how they came to be nor do they particularly care.
Corypheus is rather solid evidence that mages were involved in the conception of the Darkspawn; which makes sense considering their biology could not have developed naturally; and the Chantry acknowledges the dwarves were the first to fall.
If the Magisters ran underground after their transformation; like the Chantry claims; captured and experimented with dwarven women, it would make sense that the first Darkspawn the dwarves saw would be Genlocks.
I think it's about time to shut this thing down... bringing up Hitler as a good example for anything is a big f%#&ing warning sign.
Pff why? He is historical figure as good as any other to use him as example of something providing that example fits...
i posted him as example of person that faced many attempted assassinations and survived what fits...
"Simply appeared" does not denote an alternative belief in the origin of the Darkspawn; rather, it shows that the dwarves have no idea how they came to be nor do they particularly care.
Corypheus is rather solid evidence that mages were involved in the conception of the Darkspawn; which makes sense considering their biology could not have developed naturally; and the Chantry acknowledges the dwarves were the first to fall.
If the Magisters ran underground after their transformation; like the Chantry claims; captured and experimented with dwarven women, it would make sense that the first Darkspawn the dwarves saw would be Genlocks.
Yep pretty much this.
"Simply appeared" does not denote an alternative belief in the origin of the Darkspawn; rather, it shows that the dwarves have no idea how they came to be nor do they particularly care.
Corypheus is rather solid evidence that mages were involved in the conception of the Darkspawn; which makes sense considering their biology could not have developed naturally; and the Chantry acknowledges the dwarves were the first to fall.
If the Magisters ran underground after their transformation; like the Chantry claims; captured and experimented with dwarven women, it would make sense that the first Darkspawn the dwarves saw would be Genlocks.
The Codex entry goes into more detail than the wiki.
All we know is that the Magisters went to the Golden City, but it was black before they got there, and they came back with the Taint. Whether this and the Darkspawn are related or simply two separate events that merged later is unknown.
Ok, tranquility is an interesting topic.
Is losing your emotions all that bad? Sure, you'll never feel happiness again but that also applies to sadness.
We have seen it being abused by Templars like Alrik but, legally, the terms of its aplication seem resonable. Only on criminals, volunteers or mages who would never have suceeded their Harrowing and, if a mage is not capable of facing a demon, chances are they would have been possessed in the future.
People in the game tend to blow this out of proportions. It is understandable to look at it with some uneasiness but I remember Anders claiming Tranquility removed one's ability to reason which is distinctly untrue.
Not having emotions, doesn't that make someone a psychopath?
And judging from Karl and Pharamond, it doesn't seem that a mage loses their emotions after tranquility, but rather their ability to express them, and that seems pretty cruel. Both Karl and Pharmond are aware while tranquil that something was different, that something was wrong. Pharmond compares it to a dream, commenting, "You cannot act other than the dream allows," and goes on to say, "...you are slowly smothered in a crystal clear silence that has no meaning."
And emotion naturally plays a part in decision-making so I think its legit that Anders says it affects reasoning. Karl wouldn't have ratted Anders out to the templars if he hadn't been tranquil. On TVD, for example, Elena turns off her emotions, and while emotionless tries to kill her best friend Caroline. She wouldn't have done that had she had her emotions turned on, and when she does turns them back on, she couldn't believe what she'd almost done. So yeah, I think that can affect your reasoning. You're not in your right state of mind so how can you really reason anything?
Is your avatar a DA version of The Road to El Dorado?
Finally somebody got it! 
Seriously though I tip my hat to your patience sir. Not many people can continue this discussion as long as you have!
Finally somebody got it!
Seriously though I tip my hat to your patience sir. Not many people can continue this discussion as long as you have!
I love that movie so when I saw the Anders I was like "That looks like Miguel". 
The Codex entry goes into more detail than the wiki.
All we know is that the Magisters went to the Golden City, but it was black before they got there, and they came back with the Taint. Whether this and the Darkspawn are related or simply two separate events that merged later is unknown.
I would point out that we do not know for a certainty that the City was already black. It is one of the ways Corypheus' dialogue can be interpreted but not the only one. And, of course, if the City was already black, there are some questions that have to be answered such as: Why did the City appear Golden in the Fade and then black afterwards?
Not having emotions, doesn't that make someone a psychopath?
It makes you this guy, except without all the awesome parts:
Not having emotions, doesn't that make someone a psychopath?
Not that I know anything about psychopathy beyond what the wiki can teach me but I expect it to be more complicated than that.
And judging from Karl and Pharamond, it doesn't seem that a mage loses their emotions after tranquility, but rather their ability to express them, and that seems pretty cruel. Both Karl and Pharmond are aware while tranquil that something was different, that something wrong. Pharmond compares it to a dream, commenting, "You cannot act other than the dream allows," and goes on to say, "...you are slowly smothered in a crystal clear silence that has no meaning."
The words "silence that has no meaning" seem to imply that they can't feel anything, even if they understand that they are different from other people, rather than being able to feel but being unable to express it.
It doesn't seem cruel to me. And even if it was, it's not like the Tranquil can feel anything bad about it because the only type of pain they can feel is of the physical kind.
And emotion naturally plays a part in decision-making so I think its legit that Anders says it affects reasoning. Karl wouldn't have ratted Anders out to the templars if he hadn't been tranquil. On TVD, for example, Elena turns off her emotions, and while emotionless tries to kill her best friend Caroline. She wouldn't have done that had she had her emotions turned on, and when she does turns them back on, she couldn't believe what she'd almost done. So yeah, I think that can affect your reasoning. You're not in your right state of mind so how can you really reason anything?
Reasoning that is not affected by emotions does not cease to be reasoning.
And emotion-influenced reasoning is not, by nature, better than that influenced by logic and practicality.
Not having emotions, doesn't that make someone a psychopath?
And judging from Karl and Pharamond, it doesn't seem that a mage loses their emotions after tranquility, but rather their ability to express them, and that seems pretty cruel. Both Karl and Pharmond are aware while tranquil that something was different, that something was wrong. Pharmond compares it to a dream, commenting, "You cannot act other than the dream allows," and goes on to say, "...you are slowly smothered in a crystal clear silence that has no meaning."
And emotion naturally plays a part in decision-making so I think its legit that Anders says it affects reasoning. Karl wouldn't have ratted Anders out to the templars if he hadn't been tranquil. On TVD, for example, Elena turns off her emotions, and while emotionless tries to kill her best friend Caroline. She wouldn't have done that had she had her emotions turned on, and when she does turns them back on, she couldn't believe what she'd almost done. So yeah, I think that can affect your reasoning. You're not in your right state of mind so how can you really reason anything?
Slowly smothered. That sounds quite unpleasant. As they are only allowed to act as the dream allows it could easily mean they're suffering horribly and given the use of the words slowly smothering it sure sounds like they are. They just don't have the ability to express it.
I can't see anything positive about that description and much that indicates distress and suffering. Being smothered is rarely a good thing after all.
Not that I know anything about psychopathy beyond what the wiki can teach me but I expect it to be more complicated than that.
I'm pretty sure its one of the hallmarks of psychopathy.
It doesn't seem cruel to me. And even if it was, it's not like the Tranquil can feel anything bad about it because the only type of pain they can feel is of the physical kind.
When Pharmond says, "You can't act other than what the dream allows," that seems to imply IMO that they might want to but can't. And if they have a sense that the whole thing is fake, if tranquility feels like a dream they're going to wake up from, and it feels like being "smothered" into silence, that doesn't seem to me like their emotions are gone. It just seems like they're being repressed IMO.
Reasoning that is not affected by emotions does not cease to be reasoning.And emotion-influenced reasoning is not, by nature, better than that influenced by logic and practicality.
I don't know what Anders is trying to get at, I can't remember the context, but not being in your right state of mind, that affects your reasoning, not necessarily your mental faculties but your decision making. I think that's fair to say.
I'm pretty sure its one of the hallmarks of psychopathy.
People feel differently. Those who don't feel as strongly as others do won't, necessarely, commit murder which is what is most commonly associated with psychopaths.
In fact, strong emotions can just as easily lead to murder as Anders proved.
When Pharmond says, "You can't act other than what the dream allows," that seems to imply IMO that they might want to but can't. And if they have a sense that the whole thing is fake, if tranquility feels like a dream they're going to wake up from, and it feels like being "smothered" emotionally, that doesn't seem to me like their emotions are gone. It just seems like they're being repressed IMO.
When you're dreaming, do you ever want to act in any particular manner or do you simply go along with it? "Silence" implies their emotions are not there. Even if they are being repressed, so long as they can't feel them, then there is no pain.
I don't know what Anders is trying to get at, I can't remember the context, but not being in your right state of mind, that affects your reasoning, not necessarily your mental faculties but your decision making. I think that's fair to say.
He claimed that Tranquility took away one's ability to reason which is untrue. The lack of emotions will affect the way you reason but so would the propagand he's always spewing.
Tranquil reason, they just don't have emotions to affect their reasoning therefore, it can lead them to doing things they wouldn't have done before like Karl betraying Anders.
That is not a bad thing by nature. It's just different. Certainly much less dangerous than the ability to kill people with your brain.
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