1407 réponses à ce sujet

[EmissaryofLies]

Ah alright, my mistake then.

 

But normal templars? Harmless? Just how many exalted marches did they participate in? How many annulments? Templars are a fierce fighting force composed of mage hating warriors. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Who is generalizing now?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ah alright, my mistake then.

 

But normal templars? Harmless? Just how many exalted marches did they participate in? How many annulments? Templars are a fierce fighting force composed of mage hating warriors. 

Did you ever seen templar that tried destroy world or city? I didn't they hunt mages for very good reason because i saw plenty insane mages with destructive behavior and which is pretty much always in case abomnation (almost).

 

Well many countries part in them so well... templars never were threat for the world mostly for mages and sometimes for other cultures mostly in defense like in elves and qunari case...

[EmissaryofLies]

Not myself. They are what they are. It's like saying a soldier on duty is "Harmless", It's completely inaccurate. 

 

Templars are not 'harmless for world'. That's a complete and utter lie. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not myself. They are what they are. It's like saying a soldier on duty is "Harmless", It's completely inaccurate. 

 

Templars are not 'harmless for world'. That's a complete and utter lie. 

No it isn't in fact entire templar order goal is to protect world not destroy it...

as i said i never saw templars with desire to destroy world even most devious templars like arlik were protecting world...

[EmissaryofLies]

Did you ever seen templar that tried destroy world or city? I didn't they hunt mages for very good reason because i saw plenty insane mages with destructive behavior and which is pretty much always in case abomnation (almost).

 

Well many countries part in them so well... templars never were threat for the world mostly for mages and sometimes for other cultures mostly in defense like in elves and qunari case...

 

They were most certainly a threat to the elves and are to the mages. Or just about anybody their boss points the finger at. 

 

I do not believe that mages are a threat for the world. A threat for sure. But not an apocalyptic one. The Darkspawn prove my point quite soundly. The world functions just as well and has not ended due to "blightbringer" efforts. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

They were most certainly a threat to the elves and are to the mages. Or just about anybody their boss points the finger at. 

 

I do not believe that mages are a threat for the world. A threat for sure. But not an apocalyptic one. The Darkspawn prove my point quite soundly. The world functions just as well and has not ended due to "blightbringer" efforts. 

 

As i said many times we have examples where mages threatened the world many times simple if we would have successful abomnation he would create army of undead and another abomnations what already in inself would lead to world threatening event.Also codex says that abomnations that pride demons are sufficient for such task "A greater pride demon, brought across the veil, would threaten the entire world."  still it is codex so we should take it rather suspiciously.

 

And please don't make me laugh blight in countries that darkspawn focus cause massive destruction and yes it is world threatening event there is good reason why most countries unite during blight or at least throws out disagreements on the time of blights...

[Cobra's_back]

Ah, alright. So it is ok to make sweeping statements about mages but not the red templars? The same people following their spiritual predecessor Meredith? Ok.

 

Templars were very much part of the problem. Justina V had Bard protection because she was afraid of the Templars. She had been secretly working with Wynne to find a solution to the Rite of Tranquility. She wanted to get rid of it. The Lord Seeker had secretly planned to kill everyone working on that team even when Justina V tried to protect them.

 

The problem is that Justina V came to late. The women before her was old and senile. Templars were changing and becoming rogue. Justina V had very little power but she and Wynne were trying to make meaningful changes.

 

The Book Asunder makes it clear that there were extremist on both sides but clearly the Templars were out of control. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Pride demons are rare as are abominations. A greater pride demon? Not sure we've even seen one of those. 

 

While Meredith antagonized mages to the point where one had to blew up a Chantry and thus started a war where none were needed. Temps aren't harmless.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Pride demons are rare as are abominations. A greater pride demon? Not sure we've even seen one of those. 

 

While Meredith antagonized mages to the point where one had to blew up a Chantry and thus started a war where none were needed. Temps aren't harmless.

Greater=stronger pretty much baroness was stronger type of abomnation that could even torn veil at wish

 

Meredith was red templar not normal templar point stands templar are harmless they won't destroy world they protect it...

 

 

 

Templars were very much part of the problem. Justina V had Bard protection because she was afraid of the Templars. She had been secretly working with Wynne to find a solution to the Rite of Tranquility. She wanted to get rid of it. The Lord Seeker had secretly planned to kill everyone working on that team even when Justina V tried to protect them.

 

The problem is that Justina V came to late. The women before her was old and senile. Templars were changing and becoming rogue. Justina V had very little power but she and Wynne were trying to make meaningful changes.

 

The Book Asunder makes it clear that there were extremist on both sides but clearly the Templars were out of control. 

 

Lambert was trying prevent war in opposite to divine who was starting that naively thinking prevents it (if that was her true goal) pretty much in the end she was one who caused it and lambert was one who could prevent it if not divine actions...

[EmissaryofLies]

She was most certainly normal when she was actively trying to control Kirkwall and when she "squeezed tighter" as stated Varric. 

 

Just how many "Baroness" types have we come across? How many of those types would actually try to destroy the world? Sure she has the power to, but motive is everything. Demons don't even seem to want to destroy the world rather than see it through the eyes of mortals. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

She was most certainly normal when she was actively trying to control Kirkwall and when she "squeezed tighter" as stated Varric. 

 

Just how many "Baroness" types have we come across? How many of those types would actually try to destroy the world? Sure she has the power to, but motive is everything. Demons don't even seem to want to destroy the world rather than see it through the eyes of mortals. 

 

EEe nope she had idol before act 2 as bartrand sell her that.She was pretty much red templar as she was affected by red lyrium long time... 

 

Baroness tried ,uldred abomnation was destructive and insane as well... pretty much every abomnation desire destroy world save for rare examples... thats why abomnations always cause destruction... their another goal is bring more abomnations.

[EmissaryofLies]

EEe nope she had idol before act 2 as bartrand sell her that.She was pretty much red templar as she was affected by red lyrium long time... 

 

Baroness tried ,uldred abomnation was destructive and insane as well... pretty much every abomnation desire destroy world save for rare examples... thats why abomnations always cause destruction... their another goal is bring more abomnations.

 

No she didn't. You aren't remembering it correctly. 

 

Mindless abominations want to wipe out humanity and other sentient forms of life, sure. Pride demons seem to have other nefarious motives. Control seems to be a priority for them.

[TheKomandorShepard]

No she didn't. You aren't remembering it correctly. 

 

Mindless abominations want to wipe out humanity and other sentient forms of life, sure. Pride demons seem to have other nefarious motives. Control seems to be a priority for them.

Yep she did... 
Bartrand says that he sold idol to the woman and kept small part of it that you can give varric or keep.

 

Not rly uldred first thing after turning into abomnation started slaughter and turning others into abomnations when we talk to him he is cleary insane.Same for Baroness connor did the same... In fact every abomnation is insane in destructive way but stronger demons save intelligence.

[EmissaryofLies]

The idol did not have any provable effect on Meredith until the very end of Act III. She had already tightened her grip by the time act II started. Much as I dislike her, she had a very strong will. But the lyrium eventually did its job on her. 

 

Yes, abominations are generally insane or callous. But we haven't met many who simply want to "destroy the world". And as I said before, abominations are rare. Greater Pride Demons even more so. 

 

Mages in general are not a 'threat to the world' and the templars are anything but 'harmless'. 

[DKJaigen]

Did you ever seen templar that tried destroy world or city? I didn't they hunt mages for very good reason because i saw plenty insane mages with destructive behavior and which is pretty much always in case abomnation (almost).

 

Well many countries part in them so well... templars never were threat for the world mostly for mages and sometimes for other cultures mostly in defense like in elves and qunari case...

 

No it isn't in fact entire templar order goal is to protect world not destroy it...

as i said i never saw templars with desire to destroy world even most devious templars like arlik were protecting world...

 

Nobody wants to destroy the world because people keep their stuff in that place. However the templars lyrium problem was a major concern before as you see many templars succumbing to it. now we have red lyrium which could make a templar even worse then an abomination. Mages need to agree to a mind  rape and complete loss of personality to become an abomination . While the templars go insane and possibly die if dont take lyrium . It is now much easier to corrupt then it is to corrupt a mage.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The idol did not have any provable effect on Meredith until the very end of Act III. She had already tightened her grip by the time act II started. Much as I dislike her, she had a very strong will. But the lyrium eventually did its job on her. 

 

Yes, abominations are generally insane or callous. But we haven't met many who simply want to "destroy the world". And as I said before, abominations are rare. Greater Pride Demons even more so. 

 

Mages in general are not a 'threat to the world' and the templars are anything but 'harmless'. 

 

Eee paranoia and hallucinations? in fact she was trying to control mages even more after she bought lyrium.

 

Nope they aren't if they were rare we wouldn't have 2 main quest full of abomnations not mention side quests and main quest in expansion with 1.And thats only 1 first game... not mention da 2. We had only 2 arts about mages for inq and we already have blood mage with insane facial features and 1 mage turning into abomnation...

 

As i said all abomnations do is destruction templars protect world they are harmless for the world mages are destructive and danger for it it was proved many times...

 

 

 

Nobody wants to destroy the world because people keep their stuff in that place. However the templars lyrium problem was a major concern before as you see many templars succumbing to it. now we have red lyrium which could make a templar even worse then an abomination. Mages need to agree to a mind  rape and complete loss of personality to become an abomination . While the templars go insane and possibly die if dont take lyrium . It is now much easier to corrupt then it is to corrupt a mage.

 

As far mages are only group that had such goal (not every mage of course but plenty).Not rly pretty much templar have a choice when mage don't well sometimes they turn into abomnation voluntarily but in most cases demon takes over and as dg said it isn't so simple that mage just says no to demon and problem solved.In fact if mage would have to agree to become abomnation mages wouldn't be as half dangerous because even most dic**** mages wouldn't be so dumb to do that... And no red templars aren't more dangerous than mages perhaps they aren't even equal to their danger but yes they are dangerous and need to be killed...

[dragonflight288]

Nobody wants to destroy the world because people keep their stuff in that place. However the templars lyrium problem was a major concern before as you see many templars succumbing to it. now we have red lyrium which could make a templar even worse then an abomination. Mages need to agree to a mind  rape and complete loss of personality to become an abomination . While the templars go insane and possibly die if dont take lyrium . It is now much easier to corrupt then it is to corrupt a mage.

 

Just adding one slight correction.

 

Mages most often have to make some sort of deal. If they enter the Fade conscious and aware, but get overtaken by a demon by force, they become an abomination as well. 

 

But we know if a mage makes a deal, another mage can follow that connection into the Fade, slay the demon and kill the abomination without killing its host.

[EmissaryofLies]

Eee paranoia and hallucinations? in fact she was trying to control mages even more after she bought lyrium.

 

Nope they aren't if they were rare we wouldn't have 2 main quest full of abomnations not mention side quests and main quest in expansion with 1.And thats only 1 first game... not mention da 2. We had only 2 arts about mages for inq and we already have blood mage with insane facial features and 1 mage turning into abomnation...

 

As i said all abomnations do is destruction templars protect world they are harmless for the world mages are destructive and danger for it it was proved many times...

 

As you said, she was trying to control mages even more. Hence she had been controlling them stringently from the very start. 

 

The Circle of Fereldan disaster is indeed a rarity as are the other extraordinary events that you named. They don't happen around the clock or every other week. They. Are. Rare.

 

Templars do not universally protect the world from mages. Ironically, they seem to play a major part in creating the abominations you're so concerned about.

[TheKomandorShepard]

As you said, she was trying to control mages even more. Hence she had been controlling them stringently from the very start. 

 

The Circle of Fereldan disaster is indeed a rarity as are the other extraordinary events that you named. They don't happen around the clock or every other week. They. Are. Rare.

 

Templars do not universally protect the world from mages. Ironically, they seem to play a major part in creating the abominations you're so concerned about.

 

LoL that is point behind circle to control mages population still circles are doing poor job but that is circle goal...

 

haha rarity please circle in ferleden and circle in kirkwall all of that in 10 years not mention another abomnations this isn't rarity so please don't make me laugh...

 

Yep they are that is their major goal... second no they aren't in fact we have very 2 examples where templars caused mage turning into abomnation it was Eveline i belive and mage in the end of game... and pretty much even in that case if all it takes is to attack mage to turn him into abomnation it only support templars point as thedas is brutal and dangerous world and everyone can attack mage from bandits , folks or guards...

[Cobra's_back]

Just adding one slight correction.

 

Mages most often have to make some sort of deal. If they enter the Fade conscious and aware, but get overtaken by a demon by force, they become an abomination as well. 

 

But we know if a mage makes a deal, another mage can follow that connection into the Fade, slay the demon and kill the abomination without killing its host.

 

Excellent point which is why they are needed.

[Mister Gusty]

 

Nobody wants to destroy the world because people keep their stuff in that place. However the templars lyrium problem was a major concern before as you see many templars succumbing to it. now we have red lyrium which could make a templar even worse then an abomination. Mages need to agree to a mind  rape and complete loss of personality to become an abomination . While the templars go insane and possibly die if dont take lyrium . It is now much easier to corrupt then it is to corrupt a mage.

 

I just want to point out as everyone seems to ignore this point, mages can also use red lyrium, it is not something that is exclusive to non-mages, if some mages are willing to use blood magic, then some will probably be willing to use red lyrium. So using red lyrium as some kind of counterpoint is a bit pointless when mages can also do it. I would say a mage using red lyrium is probably a significantly bigger threat than a Templar, while both are equally stupid for doing so.

 

haha rarity please circle in ferleden and circle in kirkwall all of that in 10 years not mention another abomnations this isn't rarity so please don't make me laugh...

 

Two rare events within ten years hardly supports your case, that is still pretty rare even if it happens once every ten years, if Fereldan and Kirkwall were a year or two apart then maybe your argument would have some merit, also both events are completely different. One is caused by a mage turned abomination taking over the tower, the other is caused by a terrorist action during very tense times in Kirkwall sparking a conflict between the mages and the Templar Order controlled by a woman driven mad by the red lyrium idol. They are hardly comparable.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Excellent point which is why they are needed.

Eee so mages are needed to save mages that turn into abomnation with thier agreement sending 1 person to fight with demon in the fade instead simple send at least few templars to kill it or better simple kill mages and problem solved for good...

 

 

Two rare events within ten years hardly supports your case, that is still pretty rare even if it happens once every ten years, if Fereldan and Kirkwall were a year or two apart then maybe your argument would have some merit, also both events are completely different. One is caused by a mage turned abomination taking over the tower, the other is caused by a terrorist action during very tense times in Kirkwall sparking a conflict between the mages and the Templar Order controlled by a woman driven mad by the red lyrium idol. They are hardly comparable.

 

 

  Two rare? Eee baroness , ferelden circle , connor ,army of harvesters and abomnation in side quest also Gaxkang? and thats only first game in second game Tarohne , Grace ,abominations that killed group of qunari ,Evelina , Anders ,Huon , Olivia ,Orisno ,Marethari and many rly many mages. And thats only 10 years from 2 peoples perspective in 1 country and 1 city...   So nope they aren't rare... oh mention also go Feynriel who without protagonist would end as abomnation...

[EmissaryofLies]

LoL that is point behind circle to control mages population still circles are doing poor job but that is circle goal...

 

haha rarity please circle in ferleden and circle in kirkwall all of that in 10 years not mention another abomnations this isn't rarity so please don't make me laugh...

 

Yep they are that is their major goal... second no they aren't in fact we have very 2 examples where templars caused mage turning into abomnation it was Eveline i belive and mage in the end of game... and pretty much even in that case if all it takes is to attack mage to turn him into abomnation it only support templars point as thedas is brutal and dangerous world and everyone can attack mage from bandits , folks or guards...

 

Look at the way her 'control' ended. She failed egregiously at her duties because she pushed the mages too damned hard. 

 

In regards to the Templars, you forgot the part where they are tailor made to counter mage powers. They literally leave mages no choice but to call upon banned schools of magic or give in to stress and become abominations. Mages aren't likely to resort to such tactics if they can repel their attackers through other means. You'll have your untrained mages like Thrask's daughter who will be the exception. But I do not plan on getting rid of circle education.

 

The templars then use the fact that mages dare to defend themselves as evidence of their guilt. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Look at the way her 'control' ended. She failed egregiously at her duties because she pushed the mages too damned hard. 

 

In regards to the Templars, you forgot the part where they are tailor made to counter mage powers. They literally leave mages no choice but to call upon banned schools of magic or give in to stress and become abominations. Mages aren't likely to resort to such tactics if they can repel their attackers through other means. 

 

The templars then use the fact that mages dare to defend themselves as evidence of their guilt. 

 

Not rly she failed because many of templars were soft like Thrask and trusting mage always end badly... Mages were corrupted there from beginning to the end including their leader orsino... in fact it would end well for her if not idol... 

 

As i said we had only 2 examples of that most mages were power hungry , insane or just unable to resist demon even mages like merril that was saved by plot armor and keeper late in game.If mage turn into abomnation in fight it is very good example that s/he can't be trusted as well when they will be attacked by someone else for example olivia...