1407 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

Of course as but abomnation>demon wasn't point abomnation>mage was.

Well of course. When did I say otherwise?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well of course. When did I say otherwise?

We are arguing whether mag can torn veil (we don't talk about rituals with lyrium or slaves) and i brought that even abomnations like pride demons couldn't do that (safe for 1 weirdo) since abomnation>mage.

[KainD]

We are arguing whether mag can torn veil (we don't talk about rituals with lyrium or slaves) and i brought that even abomnations like pride demons couldn't do that (safe for 1 weirdo) since abomnation>mage.

Lyrium and blood magic are merely resource. It's still the mage that does the spell, and a powerful enough mage wouldn't need extra resource outside their own mana supply.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lyrium and blood magic are merely resource. It's still the mage that does the spell, and a powerful enough mage wouldn't need extra resource outside their own mana supply.

Yeah tell that magisters who went o the black/golden city... also if that wasn't in case tevinter mages wouldn't need go for blood magic.

 

besides that wasn't even point...

[KainD]

Yeah tell that magisters who went o the black/golden city... also if that wasn't in case tevinter mages wouldn't need go for blood magic.

besides that wasn't even point...

Tell what to the magisters? The more power the better, you said it yourself before. Nobody needs to use blood magic, people just do it for more power.

What's the point?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Tell what to the magisters? The more power the better, you said it yourself before. Nobody needs to use blood magic, people just do it for more power.

What's the point?

As fenris said if you are normal mages all you can do is whine how you can do anything that is point blood magic gives a lot if that didn't nobody would bother or at lest powerful mages....

[KainD]

As fenris said if you are normal mages all you can do is whine how you can do anything that is point blood magic gives a lot if that didn't nobody would bother or at lest powerful mages....

You can do anything without blood magic, but with it you can always do more, provided you have spare blood. Why stop at less? I already told you before that more powerful mages wouldn't need to bother with blood magic for some feats.

[TheKomandorShepard]

You can do anything without blood magic, but with it you can always do more, provided you have spare blood. Why stop at less? I already told you before that more powerful mages wouldn't need to bother with blood magic for some feats.

Nope you can't for example you can't summon demon without blood magic , you can't go to the fade without blood magic (or lyrium and a lot of mages not counting another arcane ways).Blood magic gives you a lot pretty much you can compare 1 person killed in jowan ritual an you can enter the fade instead many mages and lot of lyrium to enter there.

 

However as I said neither pride abomnation could rip veil despite being much more powerful than mages and blood mages.

[KainD]

Nope you can't for example you can't summon demon without blood magic , you can't go to the fade without blood magic (or lyrium and a lot of mages not counting another arcane ways).Blood magic gives you a lot pretty much you can compare 1 person killed in jowan ritual an you can enter the fade for many mages and lot of lyrium to enter that.

However as I said neither pride abomnation could rip veil despite being much more powerful than mages and blood mages.

Yes you can do everything you mentioned without blood magic.

Tearing the veil requires not only power but also knowledge, like any spell.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yes you can do everything you mentioned without blood magic.

Tearing the veil requires not only power but also knowledge, like any spell.

"and while lyrium may be used to send the individual waking minds of mages into the Fade, blood magic can be used to find the sleeping minds of others."

 

"Blood magic can also be used to summon demons into the corporeal world, manifesting physically (e.g. shades) or by possessing a host body (living or dead)"

 

Another thing is mind control what only blood mages can do so nope...

[KainD]

"and while lyrium may be used to send the individual waking minds of mages into the Fade, blood magic can be used to find the sleeping minds of others."

"Blood magic can also be used to summon demons into the corporeal world, manifesting physically (e.g. shades) or by possessing a host body (living or dead)"

Another thing is mind control what only blood mages can do so nope...

All it implies is that the writer of said codex had personally not known any mages powerful enough to do said feats without lyrium or blood magic.

[TheKomandorShepard]

All it implies is that the writer of said codex had personally not known any mages powerful enough to do said feats without lyrium or blood magic.

ok i forgot that you are trolling...

[KainD]

ok i forgot that you are trolling...

Not atm. I thought you were proud of your logic. Use it.

[dragonflight288]

Yes you can do everything you mentioned without blood magic.

Tearing the veil requires not only power but also knowledge, like any spell.

 

Not completely true, but is mostly true. 

 

The codex on blood magic makes it clear that you must use blood magic to influence the minds of others directly. 

 

But there are other schools of magic that can be applied that don't even need blood to replicate the results even if the method is different. 

 

For example, the school of entropy has sleep, waking nightmare, and can work in curses, hexes and illusions. Blood magic can amplify the effects, but you don't need blood magic to make someone see something that isn't there. Blood domination allowed me to forcibly make my enemies fight each other in-game, but Waking Nightmare allowed me to paralyze my enemies in fear, some fought each other just like blood domination does, because you are influencing the senses and the consciousness of your opponent, but you're not directly controlling them. 

 

I suppose my point was that you're not completely wrong except on a technicality, but even then the results can be replicated through a completely different process and school of magic. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not completely true, but is mostly true. 

 

The codex on blood magic makes it clear that you must use blood magic to influence the minds of others directly. 

 

But there are other schools of magic that can be applied that don't even need blood to replicate the results even if the method is different. 

 

For example, the school of entropy has sleep, waking nightmare, and can work in curses, hexes and illusions. Blood magic can amplify the effects, but you don't need blood magic to make someone see something that isn't there. Blood domination allowed me to forcibly make my enemies fight each other in-game, but Waking Nightmare allowed me to paralyze my enemies in fear, some fought each other just like blood domination does, because you are influencing the senses and the consciousness of your opponent, but you're not directly controlling them. 

 

I suppose my point was that you're not completely wrong except on a technicality, but even then the results can be replicated through a completely different process and school of magic. 

Blood magic is also only school that allows summon demons and control them (providing that you are powerful enough otherwise demon won't listen to you like in uldred case). Also as i said blood magic allows manipulate thoughts it is only school that allows that.difference is that you can control king mind so he would rule in your way when normal mage at best will make him fear for second or two...

Also blood magic allowed avernus awaken grey warden potential , it gave zathrian immortality and very long lifespan avernus.Blood magic is also used to make phylacteries also harvester is created by blood magic.Blood magic have a lot uses that can't be replaced by other schools.   

 

[KainD]

Blood magic is not a school of magic no more than lyrium is a school of magic. There are no schools of magic at all as per se, it's just different things that you can do with magic. I believe strongly that it's all the same, except some feats require a lot of power, and that most mages don't have enough power on their own to perform such feats so they use blood magic. Also same things could be done with tons of lyrium instead of blood magic.

[TheKomandorShepard]

...

[KainD]

...

You seem to think that lore contradicts my points. It doesn't.

[dragonflight288]

Blood magic is also only school that allows summon demons and control them (providing that you are powerful enough otherwise demon won't listen to you like in uldred case). . . .

 

 

Ahem, School of Spirit. Its very description in the codex entries talks about the summoning of spirits, studying the Fade and so on. The entire premise of the school is Spirits. And demons are nothing more than Spirits interested in the mortal world.  I'll quote the codex, bold and underline the parts I'm talking about. 

 

 

And the voice of the Maker shook the Fade

Saying: In My image I have wrought
My firstborn. You have been given dominion
Over all that exists. By your will
All things are done.
Yet you do nothing.
The realm I have given you
Is formless, ever-changing.
--Threnodies 5:4.

The first of the two Schools of Energy, Spirit is opposed by the Primal School. It is the school of mystery, the ephemeral school. This is the study of the invisible energies which surround us at all times, yet are outside of nature. It is from the Fade itself that this magic draws its power. Students of this school cover everything from direct manipulation of mana and spell energies to the study and summoning of spirits themselves.

By its nature an esoteric school, as most others know virtually nothing about the Fade, studies of spirit magic are often misunderstood by the general populace, or even confused for blood magic-an unfortunate fate for a most useful branch of study.

--From The Four Schools: A Treatise, by First Enchanter Josephus.

 

And thus it is proven that blood magic is not the school responsible for summoning demons. 

 

Also, the veil is weakened by blood, death, suffering and violence. Or concentrated magic in a singe area over a period of time. Blood magic may weaken the veil more, and more powerful, or more desperate blood mages may deliberately sunder the veil and allow demons to come through, but the actual summoning of spirits has nothing to do with blood magic, it's the school of Spirit. 

 

And you don't even need blood magic or magic to sunder the veil. It's most often the culprit, but you can just as easily sunder the veil and have demons enter the world through nonmagical means, like the purge in the Denerim's alienage at the orphanage, Northern Rivain during the exalted march, and so on. 

 

Blood magic is not the cause of summoning demons. 

[I Like Cats And]

Purge the mages. If that's an option in DA:I I'm taking it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Purge the mages. If that's an option in DA:I I'm taking it.

I doubt complete elimination of any major faction will be possible for continuity reasons.

[Zazzerka]

Purge the mages. If that's an option in DA:I I'm taking it.

 

You can't purge mages any more than you can purge people with brown eyes. Unless you propose to throw new mage children of a cliff like the Spartans.

[Lotion Soronarr]

All it implies is that the writer of said codex had personally not known any mages powerful enough to do said feats without lyrium or blood magic.

 

There has never, ever been either a mention or a hint of a mage that powerful.

All the most powerful mages mentioned used either blood magic or mountains of lyrium.

 

Technically you *can* dig a tunnel trough a big mountain with just your bare hands. Technically. But there's a reason why everyone uses heavy machinery and explosives.

 

Some thing with lyrium and blood magic. Technically you can do some things without them. Practically, you can't.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ahem, School of Spirit. Its very description in the codex entries talks about the summoning of spirits, studying the Fade and so on. The entire premise of the school is Spirits. And demons are nothing more than Spirits interested in the mortal world.  I'll quote the codex, bold and underline the parts I'm talking about. 

 

 

And thus it is proven that blood magic is not the school responsible for summoning demons. 

 

Also, the veil is weakened by blood, death, suffering and violence. Or concentrated magic in a singe area over a period of time. Blood magic may weaken the veil more, and more powerful, or more desperate blood mages may deliberately sunder the veil and allow demons to come through, but the actual summoning of spirits has nothing to do with blood magic, it's the school of Spirit. 

 

And you don't even need blood magic or magic to sunder the veil. It's most often the culprit, but you can just as easily sunder the veil and have demons enter the world through nonmagical means, like the purge in the Denerim's alienage at the orphanage, Northern Rivain during the exalted march, and so on. 

 

Blood magic is not the cause of summoning demons. 

 

Spirits aren't demons there is a lot differences it is saying like spirit healer is same as blood mage because spirit healer can summon spirits and blood mages demons... as i said only and only blood mage can summon demon but they can't summon spirit as far i know same demons know blood magic but spirtis don't even if spirit and demons are "related" they are far from same thing.

 

As i said we aren't talking about spirits we are talking about demons and yes only blood mage can summon demon...

 

And that wasn't point you can weaken veil as consequence slaughter or using magic but mage can't torn it at will like baroness at best they can open it to summon creature from fade in case blood mages it is demon. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

I don't think demonology is neccesarily Blood Magic, but it is certainly a Maleficarum school. To the layman and unlearned, all Maleficars are blood mages, even though that is not always true.