1407 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't think demonology is neccesarily Blood Magic, but it is certainly a Maleficarum school. To the layman and unlearned, all Maleficars are blood mages, even though that is not always true.

As far every mage that summoned demons was blood mage like uldred or avernus and malcolm hawke and many others so i doubt that it is accident. Even codex says that.

 

well that is not entirely true maleficars are mages that turn into forbidden magic usually that means blood magic as it is most popular example but also if i remember correctly shapeshifting also makes you maleficar because it is forbidden by chantry.

[KainD]

There has never, ever been either a mention or a hint of a mage that powerful.
All the most powerful mages mentioned used either blood magic or mountains of lyrium.

Technically you *can* dig a tunnel trough a big mountain with just your bare hands. Technically. But there's a reason why everyone uses heavy machinery and explosives.

Some thing with lyrium and blood magic. Technically you can do some things without them. Practically, you can't.

You are right, but I wouldn't view it as such an extreme. I think it's rare but it is there, like dreamers for example.

To elaborate a little more - about entering the fade like in redcliff. It takes most mages lyrium or blood magic, but dreamers can do it using only their own power. I don't believe that dreamers have some special particular powers, I think they are bluntly stronger than most mages and can also pack a stronger fireball or a heal or any other spell. Imo people just focused on the feats that dreamers can do that weaker mages can't do at all. And if they can achieve these feats without blood,lyrium why not other feats? It seemed to me like they could use mind control without blood magic, and they can even do it over great distances through the fade, not just in person like regular mages.

[dragonflight288]

As far every mage that summoned demons was blood mage like uldred or avernus and malcolm hawke and many others so i doubt that it is accident. Even codex says that.

 

well that is not entirely true maleficars are mages that turn into forbidden magic usually that means blood magic as it is most popular example but also if i remember correctly shapeshifting also makes you maleficar because it is forbidden by chantry.

 

That is the popular thing, yes, with Alistair, Wynne AND Leliana each calling Morrigan a maleficar at least once despite her not being a blood mage.

 

Me, I see a maleficar as the Chant of Light says it. "Foul and corrupt is he who takes the Maker's gift and turns it against his children. They will be named maleficar," or yada yada. I'm too tired to look up the whole codex right now

 

Essentially anyone who harms another without provocation is a maleficar, so I would see Alrik as one despite him not being a mage, and Morrigan may, in the end, qualify as one based on how the Dark Ritual turns out. Tahrone and Decimus most certainly qualified although I don't think Merrill does despite being a blood mage because she never goes out of her way to harm others. 

 

On a side note, I'm replaying DA2 and I'm running a tally on how many offically declared blood mages I'm running into and fighting, or murder knife. I'm nearly through act 2 and I'm still at less than 5. 

[KainD]

Essentially anyone who harms another without provocation is a maleficar, so I would see Alrik as one despite him not being a mage.

I don't think Alrik qualifies because he doesn't have the gift.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I don't think Alrik qualifies because he doesn't have the gift.

He does manage an okay approximation of it with lyrium.

[TheKomandorShepard]

That is the popular thing, yes, with Alistair, Wynne AND Leliana each calling Morrigan a maleficar at least once despite her not being a blood mage.

 

Me, I see a maleficar as the Chant of Light says it. "Foul and corrupt is he who takes the Maker's gift and turns it against his children. They will be named maleficar," or yada yada. I'm too tired to look up the whole codex right now

 

Essentially anyone who harms another without provocation is a maleficar, so I would see Alrik as one despite him not being a mage, and Morrigan may, in the end, qualify as one based on how the Dark Ritual turns out. Tahrone and Decimus most certainly qualified although I don't think Merrill does despite being a blood mage because she never goes out of her way to harm others. 

 

On a side note, I'm replaying DA2 and I'm running a tally on how many offically declared blood mages I'm running into and fighting, or murder knife. I'm nearly through act 2 and I'm still at less than 5. 

I renember wynne and alistair calling her that but i don't renember leliana she was calling her witch and only when you romance them both.

 

I don't think that chant meaning affects how it is called by templars/circle as they have 2 types of non-chantry mages apostate (mage not controled by circle) and maleficar (apostate that knows forbidden magic).

 

Because most likely you count only leaders large group of blood mages like tarohne or grace boyfriend.

[mikeymoonshine]

That is the popular thing, yes, with Alistair, Wynne AND Leliana each calling Morrigan a maleficar at least once despite her not being a blood mage.

 

Me, I see a maleficar as the Chant of Light says it. "Foul and corrupt is he who takes the Maker's gift and turns it against his children. They will be named maleficar," or yada yada. I'm too tired to look up the whole codex right now

 

Essentially anyone who harms another without provocation is a maleficar, so I would see Alrik as one despite him not being a mage, and Morrigan may, in the end, qualify as one based on how the Dark Ritual turns out. Tahrone and Decimus most certainly qualified although I don't think Merrill does despite being a blood mage because she never goes out of her way to harm others. 

 

On a side note, I'm replaying DA2 and I'm running a tally on how many offically declared blood mages I'm running into and fighting, or murder knife. I'm nearly through act 2 and I'm still at less than 5. 

 

I thought Morrigan was a Blood Mage? The DR was blood magic. 

 

not that I am disagreeing with you about Maleficarum. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

I thought Morrigan was a Blood Mage? The DR was blood magic. 

 

not that I am disagreeing with you about Maleficarum. 

Well she was and she wasn't when DR was blood magic well at least she says something like that ,DR was at the end of the game and given her by flemeth before we didn't had any indication that she was blood mage neither companions.

[KainD]

Well she was and she wasn't when DR was blood magic well at least she says something like that ,DR was at the end of the game and given her by flemeth before we didn't had any indication that she was blood mage neither companions.

Of course you could make anyone a blood mage via specialization. Although the only one that reacted to this was Anders in awakening.

[dragonflight288]

I thought Morrigan was a Blood Mage? The DR was blood magic. 

 

not that I am disagreeing with you about Maleficarum. 

 

*shrug* kind of hard to tell. She says the dark ritual can be considered blood magic, but we don't know if it was powered by blood, blood was a component, or if it would be considered as such because it involves conception and direct manipulation of the fetus through it. 

 

It's not like I know everything that happened. Morrigan blew out the candle.

[KainD]

Blood magic this, blood magic that. 

I wonder if women are naturally more attuned to being blood mages. After all they do have natural resources to practice said magic once every month. Pain - check, emotional instability - check. Natural blood mage I tell you. 

[Hellion Rex]

Blood magic this, blood magic that. 

I wonder if women are naturally more attuned to being blood mages. After all they do have natural resources to practice said magic once every month. Pain - check, emotional instability - check. Natural blood mage I tell you. 

This line of thought will end nowhere good, Kain.

[AresKeith]

Blood magic this, blood magic that. 

I wonder if women are naturally more attuned to being blood mages. After all they do have natural resources to practice said magic once every month. Pain - check, emotional instability - check. Natural blood mage I tell you. 

 

   

[KainD]

This line of thought will end nowhere good, Kain.

 

I'm sorry, I'm a little tipsy right now. xD

[Lotion Soronarr]

You are right, but I wouldn't view it as such an extreme. I think it's rare but it is there, like dreamers for example.

To elaborate a little more - about entering the fade like in redcliff. It takes most mages lyrium or blood magic, but dreamers can do it using only their own power. I don't believe that dreamers have some special particular powers, I think they are bluntly stronger than most mages and can also pack a stronger fireball or a heal or any other spell. Imo people just focused on the feats that dreamers can do that weaker mages can't do at all. And if they can achieve these feats without blood,lyrium why not other feats? It seemed to me like they could use mind control without blood magic, and they can even do it over great distances through the fade, not just in person like regular mages.

 

What you believe is irrelevant.

There isn't any confirmation of it in the lore.

In fact, the only advantage over regular mages mentioned in the codex is that they can influence the fade stronger when they sleep.

 

A dreamer (Tevene: somniari)^[1], is a mage capable of entering the Fade at will, without the aid of lyrium. A talented dreamer can shape the Fade and affect the dreams of sleeping people, killing or driving them mad. However, dreamers attract demons and most prove too frail of mind to survive a demonic possession. As a result dreamers are rare.
 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

This line of thought will end nowhere good, Kain.

I dunno. It did make an okay plot device in a fanfic I read.

[KainD]

What you believe is irrelevant.

There isn't any confirmation of it in the lore.

In fact, the only advantage over regular mages mentioned in the codex is that they can influence the fade stronger when they sleep.

 

A dreamer (Tevene: somniari)^[1], is a mage capable of entering the Fade at will, without the aid of lyrium. A talented dreamer can shape the Fade and affect the dreams of sleeping people, killing or driving them mad. However, dreamers attract demons and most prove too frail of mind to survive a demonic possession. As a result dreamers are rare.
 

 

There is no confirmation, but the lore also doesn't contradict my opinion. I just use logic. Basically all lyrium gives for regular mages is resource, so if one doesn't require resource, they must have enough power, logical? 

Other than that, I also can't help but draw Warhammer warp parallels ( The stronger the psyker the more likely to attract warp entities and get possessed ), seeing as mages attract demons unlike mundanes, imo a stronger mage burns brighter in the fade like a beacon and attracts more demons. What would be another logical reason for a dreamer to attract more demons than regular mages? 

[Grieving Natashina]

After reading all 55 pages of this thread, I've noticed a few things:

 

So this is where the Uneven Presentation thread has been hiding.  I've noticed that the Uneven thread died about a month or so ago, yet here I am reading the same debates.  From most of the same people.

 

I'd say that the Veil causes a lot of problems, but more than mages, good ol' fashioned wars and bloodshed cause a lot more long term damage to the Veil than any single abomination ever could, or even a baker's dozen (13) of them.   Plenty of places had thin spots in the Veil more due to a huge loss of life in one spot than any magics still going on.  Plus, I think that all cultures should really start burning their bodies.  Not all do, and I honestly think corpses laying around cause more problems than mages do.  Demons will happily take a corpse to possess if they decided to hang out on the physical realm.

 

Anyhow, I spent the better part of about 5 months straight debating this topic, so I'll back off and leave you guys to it.  

[EmissaryofLies]

How generous of you to even call it a debate. At this point I'd lower it to petty banter and insecure posturing. 

[Grieving Natashina]

How generous of you to even call it a debate. At this point I'd lower it to petty banter and insecure posturing. 

Let's be honest, it's all the same on this topic.  

[KainD]

How generous of you to even call it a debate. At this point I'd lower it to petty banter and insecure posturing.

Because there is nothing to debate. People bluntly have a different world view and a different set of morals, so they just disagree.

[Vierna221]

It is made to say that the mages and all that cause a lot of problems, but if they didn't, DA wouldn't be the same. They always have some sort of role. Take Anders for example. In DA2 when he said what he did about him and Justice, I knew right away that he was going to have some big role. And guess who blew up the Chantry?

[Lotion Soronarr]

There is no confirmation, but the lore also doesn't contradict my opinion. I just use logic. Basically all lyrium gives for regular mages is resource, so if one doesn't require resource, they must have enough power, logical? 

Other than that, I also can't help but draw Warhammer warp parallels ( The stronger the psyker the more likely to attract warp entities and get possessed ), seeing as mages attract demons unlike mundanes, imo a stronger mage burns brighter in the fade like a beacon and attracts more demons. What would be another logical reason for a dreamer to attract more demons than regular mages? 

 

We have no indication whatsoever of a dreamer being more powerful when casting normal spells. None.

You are (again) headcanoning here.

 

And no, them being more powerful is not the only explanation, especially given that magic and the Fade are still a mistery.

 

And why wouldn't demons be interested in a dreamer? Unlike other mages, they can shape the Fade when they're there.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I'd say that the Veil causes a lot of problems, but more than mages, good ol' fashioned wars and bloodshed cause a lot more long term damage to the Veil than any single abomination ever could, or even a baker's dozen (13) of them.   Plenty of places had thin spots in the Veil more due to a huge loss of life in one spot than any magics still going on. 

 

I'd say your observation is wrong.

 

A single Abomination can *instantly* tear the veil.

 

Meanwhile concentrated death and suffering on a large scale is required to THIN the veil. If you have to murder 10000 people in one place in a short order to thin the veil, then I can't see how you can claim that anyone can out-do a single mage in destroying the veil.

 

Also, the places where the veil is thin are usually sites of great battles. Which also generally include mages and lots of magic.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

There is no confirmation, but the lore also doesn't contradict my opinion. I just use logic. Basically all lyrium gives for regular mages is resource, so if one doesn't require resource, they must have enough power, logical? 

Other than that, I also can't help but draw Warhammer warp parallels ( The stronger the psyker the more likely to attract warp entities and get possessed ), seeing as mages attract demons unlike mundanes, imo a stronger mage burns brighter in the fade like a beacon and attracts more demons. What would be another logical reason for a dreamer to attract more demons than regular mages? 

Feynriel is shown as being able to skull**** Kirkwall's bandits from Tevinter. Whether that requires more power than usual magic, or simply displays a particular aptitude for channeling it in a certain way, it certainly gives any demons who meet him something to desire. Seriously, I don't think we've even met any demon who can do that on his own power. Or any demon at all who can do that apart from the Sloth demon you can give Feynriel to.