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New types of demons in DA:I. Cole, the first ''Death'' demon?


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#26
leaguer of one

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Just as there are different types of spirit/demon so there are also different types of possession.  

 

With an abomination the demon has forcibly taken over the mind/body of the victim, hence the twisted appearance, presumably because of the conflict of minds that occurred at the time of possession.   If they are un-possessed, as with Pharamond, their body returns to normal but their mind is weakened, so potentially making them more at risk of possession in the future.  This is what Marethari maintained and would appear to be the case on the evidence of Pharamond, although since he had also had the trauma of being healed of tranquillity as well, it is difficult to be adamant on this.

 

With Anders/Justice, Connor/desire demon and Imshael/Mihris the spirit/demon has had the agreement of the mortal to possess them.   They therefore look quite normal and so long as the spirit doesn't show itself, no one is any the wiser.    If they become unpossessed, they appear to return to normal in mind with no ill effects.   May be in the case of Mihris this is because the demon left voluntarily.   With Connor it can be because you either killed the demon in the Fade or because it left voluntarily.   However, in both these cases the demon had not been in possession for very long.

 

With Anders/Justice they had been merged for several years so it is doubtful if they could be separated without the death of the host.   I think Anders realised this and this is why he was half telling the truth when he said that helping him build his bomb would free him from Justice, because he assumed he would either be killed in the explosion or put to death for it.

 

Cole seems more akin to the relationship between Justice and Kristov in Awakening.   Apparently Cole died but the spirit possessed his corpse.   Alternaively, if you believe that erasing evidence by the Templars included destroying the body, then it would be a spirit living independently of a host but so tied to the mortal realm that it is able to maintain its existence and even appear solid.   Imshael appeared to be able to do this both before and after possessing Mihris and also to make people invisible (and presumably himself if he wished to).   Since he was an old powerful spirit (he objected to the term demon), it is likely that whatever spirit is connected wih Cole is also old and powerful.

 

Whatever the case, it is clear that the Circle mages knowledge of and definition of various spirits/demons is very limited.   I have to admit that Merrill was right in that much and in her assertion that all spirits are dangerous.   It may be that when we meet Solas, apparently an expert on the Fade, and even the other guy, if he is a Tevinter magister, then we will learn far more.   Clearly the Chantry policy of restricting magical research by having the threat of death by Templar or Tranquility hanging over you has severely limited Circle mages' learning and ability to understand the nature of the spirits of the Fade.   I forget who said it, but someone did say that you need to study your enemy in order to defeat them and with demons raining from the skies, clearly the Inquisition is going to have to redress that lack of knowledge very quickly.    Personally I'm looking forward to it as I love finding out new lore.

Not entirely true. Conner was realised from Possession just like  Pharamond and he was stable mentally Pharamond's issue is that his emotions were off for a long time and he did not ajust back to them yet.

 

Also, Cole the spirit is not using Cole the humans body. Cole is purely a spirit. He's using the memories of Cole only.



#27
azarhal

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If Cole is revealed to be a demon I hope there is also an option to murder knife that abomination back to the Fade, where it belongs.

 

and then he comes back because the Veil is torn apart.



#28
Iakus

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Also, Cole the spirit is not using Cole the humans body. Cole is purely a spirit. He's using the memories of Cole only.

 

This.  Cole is a pure spirit who takes the form of the boy who died in the Templar prison.  He maintains his form through magical means (specifically, blood magic).

 

The Litany of Adralla temporarilly disrupted his form, and he vanished completely.  No body left behind.



#29
Cainhurst Crow

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Cole could also be a demon or regret, and nothing can be quite as regret filled as a person dying with unfulfilled dreams.



#30
BioWareM0d13

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and then he comes back because the Veil is torn apart.

 

IIRC demons and such that are slain in the mortal world take some time to regenerate in the fade, and return weaker.

 

By the time he comes around the tears might be closed or he might not have the strength yet to exit. 



#31
Hellion Rex

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Cole could also be a demon or regret, and nothing can be quite as regret filled as a person dying with unfulfilled dreams.

Damn, a demon of regret I think would be very powerful, because in my opinion, regret is something that besets everybody.



#32
Former_Fiend

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If nothing else, Death certainly doesn't fit. All demons and spirits embody either emotions or ideals. Death is neither.



#33
Cainhurst Crow

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Damn, a demon of regret I think would be very powerful, because in my opinion, regret is something that besets everybody.

 

It would explain how cole can exist and use blood magic without having blood, nor a physical body to speak of.



#34
myahele

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If choice is a spirit then what is its demon form? Regret?

#35
Hellion Rex

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If choice is a spirit then what is its demon form? Regret?

Well, Imshael, the choice "spirit" is most definitely a demon.



#36
Former_Fiend

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Imshael doesn't conform to your labels, man! He marches to the beat of his own drum!



#37
Iakus

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Well, Imshael, the choice "spirit" is most definitely a demon.

 

In that Gaxxkang is a "demon", yeah...



#38
Hellion Rex

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Imshael doesn't conform to your labels, man! He marches to the beat of his own drum!

As he flayed half the Dalish alive, and burned the other half from the inside out....yeah, if it walks, talks, and kills like a demon...



#39
myahele

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I'd like to think of them all as beings of the fade. They are all dangerous in thier own way, but some are more active.

Perhaps being sealed for many years might do that to beings of the fade.

#40
Iakus

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As he flayed half the Dalish alive, and burned the other half from the inside out....yeah, if it walks, talks, and kills like a demon...

 

Yeah, but the fact that he used a variety of ways to kill indicates he's not as tunnel-visioned as demons we're normally familiar with.  Even Cole has a particular method to his killing

 

Imshael it appears, is something worse than a demon



#41
Vasyl

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Yeah, but the fact that he used a variety of ways to kill indicates he's not as tunnel-visioned as demons we're normally familiar with.  Even Cole has a particular method to his killing

 

Imshael it appears, is something worse than a demon

A devil?



#42
myahele

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Well imshael is a "spirit" of choice. So I guess it makes sense that it'll use a variety of ways to kill folks

#43
fhs33721

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Yeah, but the fact that he used a variety of ways to kill indicates he's not as tunnel-visioned as demons we're normally familiar with.  Even Cole has a particular method to his killing

 

Imshael it appears, is something worse than a demon

Not really. Other lesser demons have shown acts of sadism before. If you play as elf in DAO the Desire demon in Redcliffe talks about how she cut of the ears of the other elfes and fed them to the dogs. The Pride demon in Merrils quest in DA2 conjured images of her dead clanmates that accused her of various things (a most effective way of emotional torture). The fade sequence in DAO shows the sloth demon to be very adept at creating horrible nightmares for it's prey (as seen in the case of Wynne or Zevran).

So Ishmaels creative ways to painfully kill elves isn't really out of the normal demon behaviour if you ask me.



#44
Iakus

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Not really. Other lesser demons have shown acts of sadism before. If you play as elf in DAO the Desire demon in Redcliffe talks about how she cut of the ears of the other elfes and fed them to the dogs. The Pride demon in Merrils quest in DA2 conjured images of her dead clanmates that accused her of various things (a most effective way of emotional torture). The fade sequence in DAO shows the sloth demon to be very adept at creating horrible nightmares for it's prey (as seen in the case of Wynne or Zevran).

So Ishmaels creative ways to painfully kill elves isn't really out of the normal demon behaviour if you ask me.

 

Yes, demons are sadistic.  But if a demon torments its victims with hallucinations, it seems it's unlikely to set others on fire.  It's going to stick with the nightmare strategy.  

 

It's not that Imshael's creativity is unusual.  It's the breadth of its creativity.



#45
fhs33721

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Yes, demons are sadistic.  But if a demon torments its victims with hallucinations, it seems it's unlikely to set others on fire.  It's going to stick with the nightmare strategy.  

 

It's not that Imshael's creativity is unusual.  It's the breadth of its creativity.

Weird, I thought the Sloth demon tried to kill you with fire, and with giant Ogre fists, and with other various ways as well after his nightmare illusions failed. Again I see nothing that makes his creativity unique among demons.

That being said that doesn't necessarily mean he is a normal demon either, after all he is one of the forbidden ones and extremely powerful. I personally hope we get to see more of the forbidden ones in DAI.



#46
Former_Fiend

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If you want to get technical, the Sloth demon tried to kill you by getting you to sleep until you either starved to death or died of dehydration.