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[The Uncanny]

I'm not going to start this off by passing any judgements, so instead I'll just ask for opinion and comment.

 

With the recent comments on how LIs will be handled in DAI, how do you feel this will effect the game? How do you feel it will effect your involvement in the game? How do you feel about the potential integration and handling in the game?

 

Give us pros, give us cons. Does this make anyone want to buy the game who didn't previously? Does this make anyone not want to buy the game who did previously?

[AlexWk31]

I've been a little out of the loop lately and I don't think I've heard about this development. I've tried googling but couldn't find anything. Can you give me some context?  

[The Uncanny]

I've been a little out of the loop lately and I don't think I've heard about this development. I've tried googling but couldn't find anything. Can you give me some context?

 

Sorry! Totally my bad for assuming common knowledge.

 

Here:

 

http://forum.bioware...al-orientation/

[AlexWk31]

No need to apologize Part of me is extremely happy but part of me will also miss romancing whoever we fancy. I think I'll be pretty disappointed if I can't romance someone because they're straight but it'll no doubt be for the better and I'll get over it. I'm excited and interested to see who the gay characters are. The world will be a lot more engaging, I think, and my excitement for the game just keeps building!

 

I have complete trust and faith in Bioware to not mess it up. 

 

I think a lot of people will be pissed if Cullen isn't bi, though. I'm afraid of that day 

[Sherbet Lemon]

I'm still looking forward to the game, but a little less so.  DA2 was a nice surprise because I could finally create a character and play however I wanted when it came to romance.  It was so refreshing. 

 

Because it's the Dragon Age team, I feel a bit more comfortable with the decision, but I'm cautiously optimistic.  

I'm taking more of a wait and see approach to the game,  because we don't have much information and probably won't until it ships, but I can't help but be a little worried.  What I don't want is another NPC being the designated "same sex."  Don't get me wrong, Samantha was okay and I actually really liked Steve, but I'd like to see a fully fledged gay/lesbian companion, and I would say, not only a companion, but one that is completely integrated into the plot.  I don't mean the incidental involvement a la Leliana or Zevran, but a Morrigan or an Alistair.   

 

Pros

A prominent gay or lesbian character being integrated into the main storyline has the potential to be truly groundbreaking.

 

Cons

Certain romances won't be available and that means people will inevitably be disappointed.

Gay, Lesbian, Bi, Pan characters won't be fully integrated into the plot and be left by the wayside again.

Content will be unequal and biased toward heteronormativity.

[Sigurdur]

Am i wrong in believing that there will be more then 4 romances this time?  i seemed to recall someone  saying so.

My prediction is for 2 straight, 2 bi and 2 gay romance able characters.

 

Cullen and Cassandra seem to be either straight or bi.  as for the other companions i have no clue.

 

doubt Leliana will be romance able.

[AlexWk31]

Yeah, Leliana won't be. They've said that previous romance options will not be available in Inquisition. It seems like they'll have more than 4 from what I gather. 4 would almost be kind of a let down but I hope it works out like 2x2x2. That'd be great! Cautiously excited

[jlb524]

bleh

[The Uncanny]

bleh

 

That sums up how I feel pretty much perfectly.

[jlb524]

I was thinking

 

pros:  There will be a gay male companion LI with a well written story arc.

 

cons:  You can kill him off or discard him easily.

 

pros:  The lesbian character will be safe from death.

 

cons:  She'll be the NPC advisor chick and have half the content of other romances.  Her great 'lesbian' moment will be turning down the male PC.

 

Bah, I'll still get the game eventually but only cuz Morrigan/Leliana.

 

 

That sums up how I feel pretty much perfectly.

 

Hiya Canny, how's it going?

 

And I'm not surprised you feel that way 

[Jazinto]

I've seen this before in the romance discussion. Romances are important to me to and they're a big part why I love the games, but not necessarily why I play the games. Mass Effect 2 was fun even without gay romance for my male Shepard.

 

Nobody knows if the lesbian character will be an NPC. May there isn't one at all. It wouldn't surprise me if the numbers of Dragon Age were somewhere around those of Mass Effect (80% male player characters) and they opted out for two bisexual female LIs instead. Nobody knows for sure that Cassandra isn't the lesbian character. So why do you think she'll be an NPC?

 

What makes you think the gay character will be well-written?

[Rowe]

My worry is being limited to either abstaining or romancing a character simply because they're the only other gay male. That's what DAO was for me and it was very disappointing! I wanted Alistair! Not a creepy assassin that would sleep with anything! I always tend to gravitate towards straight acting men (  my lot in life) so I was thrilled when I could choose Fenris over the move obvious choice of Anders in DA2 (not to say I didn't like him as a character, because I did! Just wasn't attracted to him). What I didn't like though, was how there was no conversation about it. Anders you can at least engage in dialogue about sexuality and his preferences, but I guess Fenris is just bisexual? There was no thought towards my Pc's gender or his own sexuality, and that I found unrealistic.

 

So I guess I'm skeptically optimistic, but they better not take Cullen away from us males that have been pining for him since DAO!

[Jazinto]

My worry is being limited to either abstaining or romancing a character simply because they're the only other gay male. That's what DAO was for me and it was very disappointing! I wanted Alistair! Not a creepy assassin that would sleep with anything! I always tend to gravitate towards straight acting men (  my lot in life) so I was thrilled when I could choose Fenris over the move obvious choice of Anders in DA2 (not to say I didn't like him as a character, because I did! Just wasn't attracted to him). What I didn't like though, was how there was no conversation about it. Anders you can at least engage in dialogue about sexuality and his preferences, but I guess Fenris is just bisexual? There was no thought towards my Pc's gender or his own sexuality, and that I found unrealistic.

 

So I guess I'm skeptically optimistic, but they better not take Cullen away from us males that have been pining for him since DAO!

 

 

David Gaider:

 

 

The perception is that Bioware is backing away from supporting queer gamers. 

 

Categorically not true.

 

I understand there are some people who prefer the idea of being able to romance any character who is able to be romanced, with any PC. That may have been a happy by-product of the system in DA2, for them, but that was not its purpose. Its purpose was to allow more than one option for every type of player, no matter who they were. That remains our goal.

 

As Mark Darrah tweeted earlier today, we have characters that are gay as well as bisexual and straight. I'm not going to discuss numbers or any further details at this point, so you can make of that what you will, but that allows us to tell more types of character stories without having to resort to ambiguity. Those stories exist for players who don't romance the characters as well, and that's also important. The rest will come as we discuss this aspect of the game in detail, but I'd hope the Dragon Age's team's expressed interest in inclusivity would provide us some benefit of the doubt until that happens.

 

More than one option for every type of player remains the goal. Because David Gaider talked about gay, bisexual and straight characters and then about romancing the characters it is presumed that for both genders there will be 1 homosexual, 1 bisexual and 1 heterosexual love interest, (generally referred to as 2/2/2) giving everyone at least two options.

 

Fenris, just like Merrill, are purposefully written without a sexual past or preference.

 

David Gaider:

 

 

Which leads me to my third thing: while I get that some people might not like the discovery that those followers can potentially romance either gender (something you can really only discover on subsequent playthroughs or by reading about it), a lot of the things people post on the subject is… awkward. “It makes the characters inconsistent.” Meaning that… bisexuality itself is indicative of inconsistency? Only people who can’t make up their minds are bisexual? “It’s unrealistic that everyone is bisexual!” Which ‘everyone’? Everyone in Thedas? Or are we talking four people in your party of folks who already exceptional in a large number of ways, two of which have no sexual past or preferences that they even discuss with you? “It just made them seem like they were all sexually available to me!” So… was it having three romance options for any PC gender, just like in Origins, that threw you off? Or does the idea of potentially sleeping with either gender just make them seem inherently wanton to you?

I mean, come on. I’m sure not everyone actually feels this way, or means to sound as if they do, but much of the commentary on the topic seems to say way more about the commenter than the topic.

 

You can see he also defends the bisexuality of those characters.

 

 

I really don't understand how you've been waiting for Cullen. He never expressed interest in a male player character, only in a female player character.

[Rowe]

I really don't understand how you've been waiting for Cullen. He never expressed interest in a male player character, only in a female player character.

 

Lol. It's called wishful thinking! Him not expressing interest in my male PC doesn't mean that, in my mind, my PC wasn't interested in him. I honestly never expected him to be such a big part of DAI, I just liked him in the other two games and always stopped to play out all conversations with him. I was very happy when he was announced as a LI for DAI. I haven't been "waiting" in the literal sense of the word, expecting it for rational reasons. Just hoping 

[Sherbet Lemon]

PC. May there isn't one at all. It wouldn't surprise me if the numbers of Dragon Age were somewhere around those of Mass Effect (80% male player characters) and they opted out for two bisexual female LIs instead. Nobody knows for sure that Cassandra isn't the lesbian character. So why do you think she'll be an NPC?

 

 

20% of 1 million is still a significant amount of people and nothing to sneer at.  It's why there are inherent problematic issues when it always comes to down to favoring a majority.  The minority in and of itself is no small constituency and can have significant impact if they decide not to purchase.

 

Also, Traynor was lesbian.  Kelly was bisexual and Liara was an asari.  I don't want to talk about ME3 because then I'll get grumpy and i don't want to be grumpy anymore than I already am.

[Jazinto]

20% of 1 million is still a significant amount of people and nothing to sneer at.  It's why there are inherent problematic issues when it always comes to down to favoring a majority.  The minority in and of itself is no small constituency and can have significant impact if they decide not to purchase.

 

Yes, but not all of them are going to romance female characters. I'm not saying that I hope there won't be a lesbian character, nor that I don't expect there to be one. I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me if they cut corners.

 

It's probably nothing, but what throws me is

 

Mark Darrah:

 

there are gay characters, bi characters, and hetro characters

 

then again David Gaider:

 

As Mark Darrah tweeted earlier today, we have characters that are gay as well as bisexual and straight.

 

I guess by gay they mean lesbian as well, but why not mention it as well just to make sure?

[Sherbet Lemon]

Yes, but not all of them are going to romance female characters. I'm not saying that I hope there won't be a lesbian character, nor that I don't expect there to be one. I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me if they cut corners.

 

 

Oh, I know you didn't mean it that way.  I apologize.  Sometimes in online conversation I can abrasive and textbookish.

 

The more time passes the more I start to feel more bleh like jlb524 and Canny. 

[Jazinto]

Oh, I know you didn't mean it that way.  I apologize.  Sometimes in online conversation I can abrasive and textbookish.

 

The more time passes the more I start to feel more bleh like jlb524 and Canny. 

 

I didn't think you were abrasive. I just wanted to clarify what I meant.

 

Anyway, I was rather intense about the gay option before the release of Mass Effect 3, which is why I still resent the Mass Effect team. Lessons learned and all that. This time I don't care as much.

[Rowe]

 Cons

Certain romances won't be available and that means people will inevitably be disappointed.

Gay, Lesbian, Bi, Pan characters won't be fully integrated into the plot and be left by the wayside again.

Content will be unequal and biased toward heteronormativity.

 

That tends to be the trend . I'd hate to be introduced to a character I love, but have them be off limits due to sexuality. I'm bracing myself for that possibility.

[jlb524]

Nobody knows if the lesbian character will be an NPC. May there isn't one at all. It wouldn't surprise me if the numbers of Dragon Age were somewhere around those of Mass Effect (80% male player characters) and they opted out for two bisexual female LIs instead. Nobody knows for sure that Cassandra isn't the lesbian character. So why do you think she'll be an NPC?

 

What makes you think the gay character will be well-written?

 

Well, they will probably have at least one straight female.  So I'm thinking they'll likely add a lesbian character but in a way that straight male PCs will not really be missing out on the 'good' romance content.  Thus, they can make her an NPC.  They can say, 'Oh look, we added a lesbian character yay diversity!' without taking a companion romance option away from straight males.

 

They just did it in ME3.

 

I'm also incredibly cynical about this stuff but not many game devs give me a reason not to be XD

[Jazinto]

Well, they will probably have at least one straight female.  So I'm thinking they'll likely add a lesbian character but in a way that straight male PCs will not really be missing out on the 'good' romance content.  Thus, they can make her an NPC.  They can say, 'Oh look, we added a lesbian character yay diversity!' without taking a companion romance option away from straight males.

 

They just did it in ME3.

 

I'm also incredibly cynical about this stuff but not many game devs give me a reason not to be XD

 

There are three female companions. Why would they choose an NPC over a companion? I've seen people say it would be bad if all female companions would be romanceable, but I don't quite understand why. If they were all at beck and call of straight male player characters, I could see that sending a bad message, but I don't see how that's a problem if one of them is a lesbian character. Most people in real life are looking for love after all. Don't see why it should be different in a video game. It's only three women, it's not the entire female population of Thedas.

 

Mass Effect 3 was just horribly done. I doubt the big heads of the Mass Effect team even wanted to give equal options for everyone. It's more like they were told to or were talked into it. They certainly didn't seem to care passionately about it. There was no new human female squad member that they could have made a lesbian character. They could have made EDI lesbian, but clearly it was more important to them to amuse everyone with the Joker-EDI romance. They could have made Ashley bisexual. They should have made the new male squad member Vega the gay romance option. Instead they gave us half-assed NPCs.

[jlb524]

There are three female companions. Why would they choose an NPC over a companion? I've seen people say it would be bad if all female companions would be romanceable, but I don't quite understand why. 

 

It seems Cullen won't be a companion but is a romance option.  It's likely they could do the same with one of the female options (and avoid the 'all female companions are an option' criticism).  

[Jazinto]

It seems Cullen won't be a companion but is a romance option.  It's likely they could do the same with one of the female options (and avoid the 'all female companions are an option' criticism).  

 

If they would favour the straight male audience, because there more of them, shouldn't they also favour they straight female audience over the gay male audience? There are most likely more straight female player characters than gay male player characters. Cullen is probably straight or maybe bisexual. So why give straight female Inquisitors an NPC and gay Inquisitors a party member?

 

Cullen appears to be fan service. It's possible that he's not part of the standard roster. In DAII they had the four bisexual options and in addition to that Sebastian.

 

Or the Dragon Age team doesn't consider their NPC romances inferior to companion romances. So they would have no problem with Cullen being the straight option and that would also mean they would have no problem with either the straight or the lesbian option being an NPC.

[The Uncanny]

So why give straight female Inquisitors an NPC and gay Inquisitors a party member?

 

For the same reason it happened in ME3 presumably. Whatever that might be.

[The Uncanny]

Hiya Canny, how's it going?

 

And I'm not surprised you feel that way 

 

Hey j! Good to see the voice of reason is back with us!