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Specializations & Tactics


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#1
Propelled Rage

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Okay so I'm doing my first ever run of DA:O on PS3, playing as a mage and so far reached the brecilian forests. i'm about to learn the arcane warrior specialization which has got me thinking about something.

 

I learned the shapeshifter from Morrigan and spend a point on it after reaching level 7. Now I'm about to reach level 14, with blood mage already unlocked, would there be a way so that i de-select shapeshifter and choose Arcane warrior & blood mage? Or am I screwed and stuck now with shapeshifter? It seemed cool at first but I hardly ever used it after a couple of quests and I've heard how cool both arcane warrior and blood mage specializations are.

 

Also please suggest some tactics for a three mage/tank, two mage/tank/rogue team. I usually prefer the latter one but using the three mage one for sometime now & it is great as well.



#2
Mike3207

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If you're on PC, I think there's a respec mod. On console, you have to wait until Awakenings to respec-that or start over.

 

You have to realize both shapeshifter and arcane warrior are specializations that scale. They start out weak, but the forms get stronger the more you put into spellpower. Arcane warrior scales a lot better though, and you have to use mods/exploits to fix the slow scaling with strengh with shapeshifter.That, or divert points into strength.

 

Blood magic-meh. Some people swear by it, but I can never get past the blood graphic when you first use blood magic.



#3
Elhanan

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I do not own or use a console, but once an achievement or Specialization is unlocked, it remains unlocked for all future characters in the game. Thus, if you can save before unlocking a new class, then once it is unlocked you may return to your Save, and play it as you desire. This is also great for seeking out storylines and choices that may not be what you intended for this character.



#4
DarthGizka

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PS3

Or am I screwed and stuck now with shapeshifter?


Yes. Since you're stuck with it anyway, why not make the most of it? Once you acquire the Master Shapeshifter talent, some of your forms gain the Overwhelm ability. It cannot be resisted, so it's great against humanoid bosses like Ser Cauthrien and Loghain (especially if you take turns with Barkspawn and pets summoned by Leliana). Conversely, in shapeshifted form you are immune from Overwhelm (werewolves) and Grab (ogres). The Flying Swarm form lets you zip around quickly, especially if someone in your party has Haste sustained. In any case, shapeshifting allows you to use unusual tactics, stuff that no one else could do. Go forth and have fun.

The greatest attraction of blood magic is Blood Wound, which is like an AoE version of Crushing Prison. Blood Control is nice. Same damage as Horror and Walking Bomb, and the victim may even fight for you for a while. However, like Horror, you may well play a whole campaign without ever getting around to using it.

If you are tempted to invest points into willpower because you run out of mana too quickly then you could put the points into constitution instead. That way you could cast via blood magic when necessary, and the rest of the time you would enjoy the advantage of having more hitpoints. The same consideration applies to the Lifegiver ring and the Blood-Gorged Amulet, which makes them doubly useful for any blood mage.

However, apart from Blood Wound there is not much to blood magic that a good stack of powerful lyrium potions couldn't accomplish just as well. It's more about not letting specialisation points go to waste rather than something to covet. The passive specialisation bonusses are nice, as is the ability to equip items that are restricted to blood mages. Still, it is a decent specialisation for any destructionist, second only to Arcane Warrior (for the passive bonus of being able to use any armour and most weapons).

Arcane Warrior synergises well with Shapeshifter, because your forms get all the benefits from your equipped kit (armour, defence, resistances and so on).


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#5
rosey1579

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NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! SPIRIT HEALER!!!!!!!!!! SPIRIT HEALER!!!!!!!!!! SPIRIT HEALER!!!!!!!!!!!! SAVE THE POINT FOR SPIRIT HEALER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



#6
DarthGizka

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Huh? This isn't like the Forgotten Realms, where you could kill undead with a strong healing spell...

#7
Mike3207

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Bear Form gives you +10 armor and 50% nature resistance

Swarm form 40% dodge and 100% protection from normal missiles

Spirit Healer-some healing spells

I always go Arcane Warrior/Shapeshifter.



#8
Propelled Rage

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 Thank you Mike & DarthGizka for your detailed responses :) I'll see what I can do with shapeshifter, though only your post made me realize that most enemies cannot resist spider's web, haven't tried on bosses though.

 

 

The greatest attraction of blood magic is Blood Wound

 

Yeah its description makes it look like an absolute boss spell. Also all the apprehension and mysterious aura surrounding the blood magic is kinda attracting me to it :whistle:

 

 

If you are tempted to invest points into willpower because you run out of mana too quickly then you could put the points into constitution instead. That way you could cast via blood magic when necessary, and the rest of the time you would enjoy the advantage of having more hitpoints. The same consideration applies to the Lifegiver ring and the Blood-Gorged Amulet, which makes them doubly useful for any blood mage.

 

I run out of mana all the time, so does Morrigan or Wynn whenever they are in the team. Perhaps I've put one too many spells in the tactics slots. I haven't found those two items yet though, are they sold in Denerim? Also should I make any other party member a blood mage is it worth it?

 

Also those two spells that you get in warden's keep, how are they different from blood magic? I don't like Dark sustenance much

 

 

Arcane Warrior synergises well with Shapeshifter, because your forms get all the benefits from your equipped kit (armour, defence, resistances and so on).

 

Whoo, I think I just might go for Arcane warrior then. having some Armor would deffo be nice against hordes of skeletons and darkspawns, both for myself and someone like Wynn. I'm still working out (and loving) some spell combinations, so far I'm mainly using Sleep+horror & COC+stonefist and the improved drain, now going for the entropic death as I've heard it good too.



#9
rosey1579

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Spirit healer revives fallen allies and cures injuries! Group heal heals all party members! Mages aren't meant to tank!!!

Just arcane warrior for the armour, I see no reason in any other specs.

Blood mage: 1 out of four abilities is decent

Arcane warrior: One out of four abilities are GREAT and the other three are decent

Shapeshifter: The four abilities are decent, but hardly ever used

Spirit healer: Three out of four abilities GREAT and one is decent

I think my choice is pretty clear.



#10
DarthGizka

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@ Propelled Rage

One thing up front: for the current playthrough I'd definitely follow Mike's advice and stick with Shapeshifter + Arcane Warrior. Perhaps Mike could open his bag of tricks and post some shapeshifting stunts you could pull in the Elven Ruins... I just don't have his experience in that field, the kind of experience that comes from going through thousands of encounters using a particular fighting style. My proficiency is more in the field of straight crowd control + nukeage, with a combined kill count of about 6000 across all playthroughs as CC/nuker. So I'm basically still a Padawan on the brink of becoming a full Jedi Knight.
 

Also those two spells that you get in warden's keep, how are they different from blood magic? I don't like Dark sustenance much


Those spells and abilities are based on the magic behind the darkspawn taint. Bloody Grasp can occasionally be useful because it does the same damage as Arcane Bolt against normal enemies and the same again over time against darkspawn. I rarely get around to using it, though. Perhaps one or two dozen times in a whole campaign. I'd rather give Avernus' potion to Leliana, but unfortunately that isn't possible.

Dark Sustenance is a sick joke, because it takes too long to cast for so little mana. Drop it from your quickbar and forget it even exists. Chugging a potion is three times as fast.
 

I run out of mana all the time, so does Morrigan or Wynn whenever they are in the team. Perhaps I've put one too many spells in the tactics slots.


You hit the nail on the head. The default tactics setups tend to ensure that your companions are always out of mana/stamina without accomplishing a whole lot. I heard that on some platforms you cannot control your companions directly, only indirectly via tactics. If that's the case on your console then you have no choice, but if you can control your companions then I'd jettison all of Morrigan's tactics except for emergency self-heal via Drain Life and perhaps emergency melee stoppage via Horror. Set her behaviour to "Ranged" to make her fire her staff at anything that moves without having to be told. Use her spells tactically.

You can let her use non-AoE spells like Lightning sparingly without blowing all of her mana by using a rule like "mana >= 50%" -> "goto XX" followed by "Enemy:Any" -> "Attack" and putting the spell rules after that. In this way you ensure that no mana goes to waste, but also that Morrigan will always have some mana if you need her to cast a tactical spell.

For Wynne, the best thing would be to google around for a nice healer setup or to look in the wiki. I could give only a few general pointers there because I use Wynne very rarely nowadays. Only for special fights like High Dragons, and then I set the tactics specifically for that fight. Needless to say, her behaviour should be set to "Ranged" as well to make her chip in with her staff.

As regards the Warden: your mana reserves will last longer and longer as you gain fighting experience (you, the player, not your toon), to the point where you won't need any mana refills at all outside of some boss fights and even there only a very small number of lesser potions. Lesser potions are the most cost-effective by far, and you can brew as many as you want at very little cost. My toons use only lesser potions and reserve all of the more powerful ones for rainy days, but the last time it actually rained in the past months was during the final boss fight in Golems of Amgarrak (but there it really poured, trust me).
 

I'm still working out (and loving) some spell combinations, so far I'm mainly using Sleep+horror & COC+stonefist and the improved drain, now going for the entropic death as I've heard it good too.


Ahhh, the mighty Cone of Cold. One of my favourite spells, especially when playing with a party. Cone + shatter + shatter + shatter + shatter. Four enemies dead. Five if Leliana has summoned a wolf or a bear. Doesn't work against undead, though, but they respond favourably to fiery treatments. With maxed spellpower, all it takes is a single Fireball.

Entropic Death is the biggest hammer there is, and a well-specced mage can one-hit even minor bosses with it. However, it is probably a luxury that you can ill afford. One way to make it affordable would be to have a companion learn Death Cloud, meaning that you have to spend only two extra points yourself on top of Vulnerability Hex and Affliction Hex to get the Death Hex. The first two hexes are bread-and-butter for any destructionist, comparable in importance to Cone of Cold, Fireball, the bomb spells and the first three glyphs.

Things you might want to try: freeze a bunch of enemies with Cone of Cold, inoculate the weakest of them with (Virulent) Walking Bomb, and then shatter the bugger or kill him with a suitable spell. Boom! One whole group of enemies dispatched.

Trickier but even more fun: if you see a cluster of enemies where one is on the brink of death, fire off a bomb spell. Instant detonation, instant wholesale destruction.

The boss killer: hex up the boss, then Walking Bomb, Virulent Walking Bomb and Crushing Prison, in that order. Watch his health race towards zero, while you throw Fireballs and other stuff on top of the mix.

The cowardly hexer: if you cast Force Field on a boss then you can hex him up at your leisure and finish off with a Paralysis Explosion when he gets out of it. Meanwhile, Morrigan can cast Inferno or Tempest or whatever.

The glyph shave: if you find yourself surrounded by loads of enemies, drop a Glyph of Repulsion on yourself. Should any enemies resist, treat them with Mind Blast and/or Cone of Cold. Run back a few metres and cast Glyph of Paralysis to set off a Paralysis Explosion. All enemies are now paralysed, giving you plenty of time to initiate any kind of treatment you deem appropriate.

The classic 'unfairness can be so much fun' combo: cast Glyph of Repulsion in a doorway, Inferno into the room. Spice up with hexes if necessary. Enemies who resist the glyph can be pushed back into the fire with Stone Fist or a well-placed Fireball. If loads of them seem to resist, throw an Earthquake into the mix. Works even with Ser Cauthrien (don't ask, you'll see when the time is right).

The glyph upgrade: if you have contained some enemies by way of a repulsion glyph, watch the little clock in the quickbar icon for the spell. If the enemies are still alive shortly before the glyph runs out, upgrade to a Paralysis Explosion by casting the paralysis glyph.

Corking the bottleneck: force-fielding your tank or an enemy in a doorway is a viable alternative to the repulsion glyph. If you have two Force Fields in the family then you can keep that hole plugged forever.

Anti-stealth measures: if you have to deal with invisible enemies, there are several options. If you hear the tell-tale sounds of cloaked genlocks or shrieks, open with Mind Blast and then drop a Glyph of Repulsion on yourself. You can 'probe' an area that may contain invisible enemies by flinging a Fireball into it or casting an AoE spell like Inferno; enemies that are hit become visible.

Playing cheese in a trap: if glyphs, Paralysis Explosion and Earthquake cannot keep your enemies in an Inferno long enough (e.g. bosses) then have your tank equip Wade's superior armour - or fire crystals, in the case of Shale - and have them run into the Inferno after grabbing the enemies' attention if necessary. Once in there, force-field your tank. Watch the bossy ogre beat and ram the force field ineffectually while he gets toasted. Works even better when soloing.

A note on spell placement: in most cases you will want to target Fireball at a fixed ground position rather than a moving enemy. You can use Fireball even in close-quarters combat as long as you take care to keep the edge of the AoE circle an inch away from your feet (i.e. your own melee circle). Paralysis Explosion is difficult to place precisely, but you can still paralyse someone who is standing right in front of you if you use the glyph's targetting circle as a measuring tool. The explosion will be centred on the second glyph you cast, with a radius of 7.5 metres. The glyph has a radius of 2.5 metres and a diameter of 5.0, meaning that the edge of the second glyph must be at least one glyph's diameter away from yourself.

Spells like Flame Blast and Cone of Cold can shoot through obstacles, like bookshelves and walls. Winter's Grasp, Drain Life, Crushing Prison, the glyphs and the hexes do not require line of sight. Dito for Inferno and its little brothers.


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#11
caradoc2000

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I haven't found those two items yet though, are they sold in Denerim?

Lifegiver is sold in Orzammar (costs 80+ gold), and the Blood-Gorged Amulet can be found in Cadash Thaig (during Shale's companion quest).



#12
DarthGizka

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Spirit healer revives fallen allies and cures injuries! Group heal heals all party members! Mages aren't meant to tank!!!
...
Blood mage: 1 out of four abilities is decent
Arcane warrior: One out of four abilities are GREAT and the other three are decent
Shapeshifter: The four abilities are decent, but hardly ever used
Spirit healer: Three out of four abilities GREAT and one is decent


Blood Mage: 3 decent, (2 would be GREAT if it weren't for their serious limitations)
Arcane Warrior: 1 GREAT, rest matter of taste
Shapeshifter: matter of taste, but fun and unusual
Spirit Healer: 1 GREAT if you need it, 1 useful during one quest

You can get a spirit healer during the Broken Circle quest if you so choose, meaning you don't have to waste one of the Warden's specialisation points if you want a spirit healer for your team. But lets look a bit more closely at that specialisation.

Group Heal: if you need it then it's awesome. No doubt about it. Works long distance, too.

Revival: useless, unless you have a habit of feeding companions to the wolves and want them to continue fighting anyway. Sten can revive as well, with the Qunari Prayers for the Dead feastday gift item.

Lifeward: heals a small amount* when health drops below 33%. Once. Like a lesser health pot for a non-magic character, or less. If you find this useful then you're probably in serious trouble.

Cleansing Aura: nice for the second phase of the Attack at Nightfall in Redcliffe but has an insane mana drain (-10). This means that Wynne will require stacks of lyrium potions, especially if you want her to cast normal healing spells as well. Having two mages with normal healing spells is sufficient to save everyone without breaking a sweat, so it isn't worth it to waste three extra spell points on one mission.

My first Warden - a noble dwarf shield warrior - was quite pleased with having two Group Heals in the team when he muddled through the fight with the spider queen and the one with Branka and her golems. However, these were the only times the second Group Heal was actually used, across all playthroughs with all classes. YMMV.

*) The amount healed is 45 for spellpower 50, i.e. Wynne during mid-teen levels. If you max out Wynne's spellpower by making her a blood mage, giving her all the tomes, all the best equipment (Staff of the Magister Lords, Vestments of the Seer, Sash of Forbidden Secrets and so on) and have her learn all the spellpower-enhancing talents including Arcane Mastery then she can have 230ish spellpower at level 23, with double-wisped Spell Might and Vessel of the Spirit augmented by Aneirin's token and Shale playing spell wisp (Stone Aura). With that spellpower she can hit Archie for 1600+ damage with Entropic Death despite his resistances, but Lifeward will still heal only 100 points.



#13
Mike3207

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@rosey-a bit strong on my last post, but you have NPCs who can do that sort of thing. A shapeshifter will want someone around to Haste and heal the party, because you'll be limited on that sort of thing.

 

As far as 4 talents, a shapeshifter gets more than that. Master Shapeshifter add Overwhelm for bear and spider, Divide the Swarm(a stun) for Flying Swarm. The wikia also mentions a drain health ability that accrues to the Swarm once you get MS.The drain health ability might be as much as you damage foes by.

 

On the Elven Ruin, Bear Form all the way. Spider Form and Swarm do nature damage, and undead are immune to nature damage. Bear Form does physical damage.

 

On how you use the forms-if you go full spellpower, you'll want to stick with swarm and bear form. The spider's strength scaling is a bit slow, and if you use the spider I'd recommend 30 minimum strength to do decent damage.Spider and Bear form do damage based off of strength.

 

I also didn't see it mentioned earlier, but shifted forms are also immune to Grab attacks by ogres and dragons.



#14
Blazomancer

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For more mana, have Wynne learn Vessel of the Spirit and meet Aneirin. Morrigan can be set up to cast from her HP. Some items improve blood magic. Rejuvenate, Mass Rejuvenation and Spellbloom also helps. Having the rogue sing Song of Valor can provide you with a tiny bit more mana regen.

Set up tactics to use the mana pool efficiently. For instance, 'self: mana<25 -> activate: Flaming Weapons' can be potentially more efficient than 'self: any -> activate: Flaming Weapons'.

Before activating Vessel of the Spirit, have Wynne turn off as many sustainables as you are comfortable with.

The mages can use Lesser Health Poultices, the Healing spells can be saved for the warriors and rogues. If you aren't willing to do this, at least turn off healing spells on a blood mage.

A blood mage Morri can be set up to deactivate blood magic at some threshold say <50%, and drink a poultice, and then turn it on again. A better way might be to use Blood Sacrifice on the tank (say Tank: Health>50% -> Use: Blood Sacrifice) or even on other teammates if the tank is holding aggro.


Bloody Grasp is an average spell and can be ignored. Same with Dark Sustenance, although it can be useful during early levels if you don't want to craft potions. The gruesome animation is long but it can be cut short to about two seconds by interrupting it after the mana return. Given the health hit, the return is pretty good. Later on it becomes redundant with Blood Magic, Regen options, Poultices and all that.
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#15
rosey1579

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I just picture these scenarios:

Blood Mage:

Party Members low on health, wyne desparatly trying to heal. A few abilities are activated. Drains health. FRIENDLY FIRE!!!! NOOOOOOOOOO YOUR JOURNEY ENDSSSSSS!

Arcane warrior:

Part members low on health, wynne healing. WYNNE!!!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH A SWORD!!!!! SPELLPOWER!!! TACTICSSSS!!!! OH NO!!! EVERYONE BUT WYNNE DEAD!!!! ARMOUR IS SAVING WYNNE!!! REVIVAL!!!

Shapeshifter:

Party members low health wynne healing... SHAPECHANGE!!!! INTERUPPTED! TRY AGAIN!!! INTERRUPTED!!! EVERYONE DEAD!!! YOUR JOURNEY ENDSSSSSSSS!!!

Spirit healer:

Party members low on health..wynne healing... GROUP HEAL!!! HOORAY!!!!

 

Then again, if the situation is different, like one mage left, shapechanging works I suppose. But when does that ever happen. We protect our mages with armour because we go arcane warrior.



#16
BronzTrooper

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I just picture these scenarios:

Blood Mage:

Party Members low on health, wyne desparatly trying to heal. A few abilities are activated. Drains health. FRIENDLY FIRE!!!! NOOOOOOOOOO YOUR JOURNEY ENDSSSSSS!

Arcane warrior:

Part members low on health, wynne healing. WYNNE!!!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH A SWORD!!!!! SPELLPOWER!!! TACTICSSSS!!!! OH NO!!! EVERYONE BUT WYNNE DEAD!!!! ARMOUR IS SAVING WYNNE!!! REVIVAL!!!

Shapeshifter:

Party members low health wynne healing... SHAPECHANGE!!!! INTERUPPTED! TRY AGAIN!!! INTERRUPTED!!! EVERYONE DEAD!!! YOUR JOURNEY ENDSSSSSSSS!!!

Spirit healer:

Party members low on health..wynne healing... GROUP HEAL!!! HOORAY!!!!

 

Then again, if the situation is different, like one mage left, shapechanging works I suppose. But when does that ever happen. We protect our mages with armour because we go arcane warrior.

 

Dude... calm down.   :mellow:

 

One: Wynne is a healer.  Why would you put points into offensive spells?  Hell, why would you make her a blood mage?  That makes no sense.   :?

 

Two: Arcane Warriors don't have to use melee weapons.  They can still be on the edge of battle with a crossbow or longbow/shortbow.

 

Three: Group Heal doesn't heal as much as a regular Heal spell.  Yes, everyone is healed, but not as much as with a normal Heal spell.

 

Four: Healing spells can be used without having to sheathe your weapons.  This includes Group Heal.

 

Five: Cleansing Aura is pretty useless if everyone is outside of its effective range.  If you are an Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer with a sword and shield, you can be in the thick of battle with everyone else with Cleansing Aura active and it will actively heal everyone around you while keeping them alive.

 

Six: Why do you rely on the Spirit Healer spells so much?  You can use health poultices, you know.  They're quicker to use, require no mana, and have no cooldown.  And if you have to use Revival so often, you're probably doing something wrong and you need to re-evaluate your strategy.

 

Seven: You don't need to put every spell into Wynne's tactics.  You can, but you don't have to.  If you don't want Wynne to use a certain spell, don't put it into her tactics.

 

Here are the actual results of your scenarios:

 

Blood Mage:

Party members low on health.  Wynne heals.  Everyone gains enough health to keep fighting.  Wynne loses some health casting the spell.

 

Arcane Warrior:

Same, except Wynne uses more mana than she normally would instead of losing health.

 

Shapeshifter:

Party members low on health.  Wynne heals.  Everyone can keep fighting.

 

Spirit Healer (which she starts out with) :

Party members low on health.  Wynne uses Group Heal.  Everyone gains some health.  They still need healing.  Wynne starts spamming Heal.  Wynne runs out of mana.  Everyone needs to use health poultices while Wynne uses a lyrium potion.

 

Spirit Healer does help keep your party alive, but you shouldn't rely on it.  Especially since Wynne's mana tends to disappear pretty quick...



#17
Mike3207

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On 2, Combat Magic only has a impact on weapons that require strength. Shortbows Longbows, and Daggers don't fit under that description according to the wikia.



#18
BronzTrooper

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On 2, Combat Magic only has a impact on weapons that require strength. Shortbows Longbows, and Daggers don't fit under that description according to the wikia.

 

I know, but you can put points into dexterity to use those weapons.  That's what I did in Awakening with my Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage elf.  Gave her the Heartwood bow.



#19
Propelled Rage

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Whoa I've learned so much from the posts here, thanks guys. I decided to go with Arcane Warrior and had Morrigan as a blood mage. Have not had time to test my tactics fully but I'll post soon. In laymen terms my plan is to have Morrigan use the blood magic spec as soon as her mana is drained, 40% and BM is deactivated. Apart from that I'd have her ranged and use affliction hex on elite enemies apart from the earlier spell combos. I thought perhaps having a BM and an AW (myself) would be nice, hence the decision. However instead of drain life, I have her drinking lesser HP after deactivating BM.

 

Wynne on the other hand is the SH, I'll have her purely for healing, no spells or nothing. I've just reached Denerim so prob will look for some gear for mana regeneration.

 

Apart from those two I either have Leliana or Alistair. Leliana most prob as I have now gained AW so maybe tank is not needed? Leliana is also mostly ranged but switches to melee weapons if under a melee attack. Song of Valour as soon as any enemy is visible, with rapid shot & dirty fighting. I unlocked coup de grace and got some armour to buff the backstab damage.

 

I've decided to use the shapeshifter myself, Morrigan is supposed to be the BM. So far only the basic spider & Bear forms I've unlocked and it is going to be so because I want to try AW first.

 

This is of course just one set I've worked out so far after levelling up. Have to unlock a lot of things to try all the combinations that DarthGizka suggested  :)

 

Going to try this build on

Spoiler



#20
rosey1579

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Oh.. fine. Switch out all the words that say "wynne" with "mage warden". Spirit healer is great with wisp and it takes less time to cast.