60 réponses à ce sujet

[TurretSyndrome]

Bioware definitely seems to have learned from their past mistakes, but then again you never know until the game is actually released. I'll just wait till then before jumping on the " *squee* Thank you for everything Bioware! *squee* " bandwagon.

[iggy4566]

Why would trust matter when it comes to a video game company?

 

Buy their games you like.

 

Don't buy the ones you don't.

Trust matters everywhere  why not for video games cause I hope can trust a company to try and sell me a product that is good just like when you  buy a car or new shoes you trust that they won't suck or break on you.

[Mes]

OP hasn't quite explained what they think the "wrong steps" were? 

 

What is this thread.

[bEVEsthda]

i don't have a lack of trust for Bioware, my favorite game out of the hundreds i have played is ME3. The ending was disappointing for sure, i however will not let 10 minutes at the end spoil the 40 hours that came before, or the other 80 hours spent playing ME1 and ME2.

 

Dragon Age 2, was definitely a step back compared to DA:O but i still enjoyed it for what it was. Do i think Bioware should have done better, sure. Do i think they made a mistake with the story and characters (which is their primary focus) no, certainly no. My problems with the game were combat mechanics, graphics, and world design. If they can fix those 3 things in DA;I, then it will be a better game than the previous one, which is all i can ask for.

 

Well, that's your opinion. And it's nice enough for what it is.

 

What reduces the relevance of your opinion, is the fact that it's not universally shared by Bioware's old or potentially current audience.

Your first statement puts the mental image into my mind, of somebody who builds his own house. He spends a couple of years and lots of emotional investment in designing and doing all the details. Just as it's ready for him to move in, though, somebody comes by and burns it all to the ground. And then he goes: Well, I had insurance, so I'll get most of my money back, and I will not let this disaster spoil all the fun I had for years, building and dreaming about this house. "It's the path that matters, not the destination, bla, bla".

 

(You do know that the end does ruin all of it? Don't you?)

 

The second statement I see as the big danger for DA:I. Because it's the small number (very small minority) of people who feels like this, that I fear Bioware have mostly looked towards, for feedback on DA2.

The problem here is that you liked DA2.

Now, I can come up with almost endless lists of faults with games that I like. Every game that I like. Are those important? Not particularly, cause I like the game anyway.

 

DA2's problem was that a lot of people absolutely hated the game. And throughout the post-process here on the forums, I have never had the feeling that Bioware ever paid any real interest to what those people had to say. The details that Bioware have worked on, seems mostly to have been flaws which people who already like DA2 can see and agree on.

Will this fix the game for those who hated DA2?

 

And this is my fear for DA:I. Still. Though, on the positive side, it appears from the various previews of DA:I, that Bioware may have considered some of the serious criticism as well. Let's hope so. We'll see.

[Mockingword]

"Bioware doesn't listen to me enough, and listens to people who disagree with me too much" - Literally everyone who ever posted on this forum ever.

[iggy4566]

OP hasn't quite explained what they think the "wrong steps" were? 

 

What is this thread.

Oh the wrong steps are pretty out in the open just look back in time. And this thread is me someone who has a deep lack of trust in Bioware saying hey this game actually looks not bad and saying your doing good stuff as of now.

[Mockingword]

Jesus Christ, and I thought I was smug.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Oh the wrong steps are pretty out in the open just look back in time. And this thread is me someone who has a deep lack of trust in Bioware saying hey this game actually looks not bad and saying your doing good stuff as of now.

Can you please specify these 'wrong steps' instead of saying "Just look back in time"? You are the one making the case, so you should provide them.

[duckley]

Firstly, the game may go in directions that the OP feels are correct, but the game itself when out and played, could still turn out to be lousy by his/hers standards and preferences and/or by the majority of players preferences and standards.

 

If you have lost trust or faith in Bioware as a company - I do hope you find it with them again or  if not, with some other company. "Buyer Beware" and Try Before you Buy"  are two expressions I always consider.

I totally enoyed the ME series, I loved DA:O and I had fun playing DA2 - based on that I will definately be buying DA:I. If you didnt enjoy DA2 and ME3 as the most recent Bioware releases then I would definately either not buy or would wait til other had played and then decide.

[iggy4566]

Can you please specify these 'wrong steps' instead of saying "Just look back in time"? You are the one making the case, so you should provide them.

How they dealt with DA 2 and not listening to criticism and lying about  ME3 and it's ending and not listening to criticism and then pissing off their fanbase and having very very bad PR. being arrogant  and acting like they did and could do no wrong. Those are very very wrong steps to take if you want someone to buy something from you

and I think Bioware is getting off their high horse and seeing that oh balls after seeing Witcher 3 and Dark souls 2  are thinking we need to step up our game and be humble to our fanbase and try to create good will again I hope  they can change their ways with this game.

[Mockingword]

You mean not listening to your criticism.

[iggy4566]

You mean not listening to your criticism.

you mean a lot of other people's criticism cause people have SHOCK criticism towards things.   

[Mockingword]

you mean a lot of other people's criticism cause people have SHOCK criticism towards things.   

Right, but if you only perceive the criticism you agree with as valid, then of course it's going to look like Bioware isn't listening to criticism.

 

A lot of people have criticism for Bioware after every game, and it's not all the same.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How they dealt with DA 2 and not listening to criticism and lying about  ME3 and it's ending and not listening to criticism and then pissing off their fanbase and having very very bad PR. being arrogant  and acting like they did and could do no wrong. Those are very very wrong steps to take if you want someone to buy something from you

and I think Bioware is getting off their high horse and seeing that oh balls after seeing Witcher 3 and Dark souls 2  are thinking we need to step up our game and be humble to our fanbase and try to create good will again I hope  they can change their ways with this game.

How do know they didn't listen to criticism? In fact, isn't your opinion of them taking the 'right steps' actually counterproductive since that means they did listen to the criticism?

 

As for the arrogance, they are one of the only companies to release a huge 2 GB DLC, for free I might add, to the fans in the form of the Extended Cut after listening to complaints. Most companies wouldn't do anything or charge for said content. Compared to that, Bioware was hardly arrogant or self-righteous. 

[AresKeith]

Why would trust matter when it comes to a video game company?

 

Buy their games you like.

 

Don't buy the ones you don't.

 

Yep, I learned the hard way from Capcom 

[Paul E Dangerously]

Pray tell, what 'wrong things' were they doing before?

 

If you really want to get into that..

 

- Some pretty questionable creative decisions (ME2 is effectively Mass Effect Gaiden. It's a giant sidestory, basically filler in the grand scheme of things. ME2's amount of railroading in general. The entire retcon with Anders in DA2, which really would have been better with Velanna. DA2's entire plot collapse in the third act, combined with some pretty bad writing in general and an utter lack of anything to keep the quests tied to the narrative. ME3's host of creative problems, the Star Child and the entire ending sequence.)

- Some equally questionable gameplay decisions (ME2 throws out the baby with the bathwater by removing everything from ME1 in the changeover. Tons of weapons. Armor. Mods. Abilities. Not only are you in capable of giving your companions different armor, there's goofy stuff like Garrus having broken armor unless you buy the DLC. Why? Then there's the nosedive in level design, in which the cover mechanic ensures that damn near every level is a corridor filled with chest-high walls. The entire removal of exploration. DA2 pidgeonholes players even more into the MMO roles of healer/tank/DPS by removing weapon options for everyone, so no more DEX-based dual wield warriors, ranged combat warriors, STR-based rogues, and Mages can't use anything that's not a damned stick. In some weird attempt to appeal to..somebody, the enemy HP is ramped up, the encounter design is thrown out the window entirely in favor of waves, and it becomes much more grindy unless you use particular builds. They also messed with auto-attack, which is a big thing for some people. Then there's the level reuse, the reliance on fetch quests, the lack of choice in the narrative, and so on.)

- Rushing DA2 in general.

- Some drug-inspired binge that resulted in the original ME3 endings. I've seen worse, granted, but ME3 was supposed to be the culmination of a series in which your choices mattered. In actuality, interesting plot branches got sawed off and retconned out entirely, and the remaining ones became a lot less special, with "pretty similar" filler content for people that did Choice X and not Choice Y. In the end, you have more-or-less the exact same experience as everyone else.

- Some heavy-handed and clumsy things that came off as pandering toward some audiences and then using that as a shield to deflect legitimate criticism. And in turn, the people they were appealing to saw DA2 as trying too hard to appeal to the dreaded "Call of Duty" and "Adult White Male" audiences. Can't win 'em all, I guess.

-Then there's the TOR debacle. I don't personally hold this over this Bioware's head, because it's not only a different studio, but it's an MMO. They all launch half-done at best, then dribble out the content that should have been in at launch for $12/mo. I think a lot of the problem was that it's not only an MMO, but a subscription MMO in the modern market and one that's seen as "stealing" a sequel from a beloved single-player game. Even KOTOR2 had a good reception, and it was rushed as hell.

 

Keep in mind that in large part, I liked ME2, ME3, and DA2. While I will not defend a lot of those decisions, I feel that those games are mediocre at worst, and have some positive points. I can see, however, why a large portion of Bioware's former audience has become hostile, if not abandoned them entirely.

 

In the end, I think the problem lies in that the fact Bioware's strength, their stories, have taken a real hit. DA2 tried something different, and it didn't quite work. ME2 and 3 are what they were. In the end, a lot of gamers were willing to forgive things like KOTOR or DAO being fairly cliche because they were pretty well done, and over a solid gameplay engine. It's when you start really tampering with that formula when you risk disaster.

 

If you make combat too flashy, too grindy, too frequent and too over the top to appeal to Crowd A, Crowd B and Crowd C are going to call BS. If you make everyone playersexual to appeal to Crowd C, Crowds A and B might start complaining. If the story as a whole is lacking, all three of them might start mumbling under their breath. My point is, there's nothing wrong with trying to appeal to as many people as possible, but the best way to do so is to do what you do best and do it well.

 

Now, from what I've seen of DAI I really, really like. Exploration is back. Out of combat skills are back. There are less restrictions, even if I believe weapons are still restricted, which is a bad move.

 

 

How do know they didn't listen to criticism? In fact, isn't your opinion of them taking the 'right steps' actually counterproductive since that means they did listen to the criticism?

 

As for the arrogance, they are one of the only companies to release a huge 2 GB DLC, for free I might add, to the fans in the form of the Extended Cut after listening to complaints. Most companies wouldn't do anything or charge for said content. Compared to that, Bioware was hardly arrogant or self-righteous. 

 

Keep in mind, those very customers had just paid anywhere from $60-$100 for something which had an ending that pretty much everyone felt was unsatisfying at best. That's not something you do because you love people and you want to do it, that's something you have to do because you're getting flak from every corner of the internet at once and you have to fix your reputation.

[Mockingword]

Ancient History is my least favourite lesson. ):

[iggy4566]

How do know they didn't listen to criticism? In fact, isn't your opinion of them taking the 'right steps' actually counterproductive since that means they did listen to the criticism?

 

As for the arrogance, they are one of the only companies to release a huge 2 GB DLC, for free I might add, to the fans in the form of the Extended Cut after listening to complaints. Most companies wouldn't do anything or charge for said content. Compared to that, Bioware was hardly arrogant or self-righteous. 

 

Witcher 2: Enhanced Edition now available free to previous owners

http://www.neoseeker...revious-owners/

it was 17 GB

and at Mockingword so it's my opinion that devs should not lie to people about things in  game or listen to vaild criticism about not reusing  levels and fixing gameplay or having more dialogue wheel less auto dialogue and less streamlining of RPG features and many more?     

[iggy4566]

Ancient History is my least favourite lesson. ):

those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

[Mockingword]

and at Mockingword so it's my opinion that devs should not lie to people about things in  game or listen to vaild criticism about not reusing  levels and fixing gameplay or having more dialogue wheel less auto dialogue and less streamlining of RPG features and many more?

I dunno, is it? I'm not a mind reader.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Keep in mind, those very customers had just paid anywhere from $60-$100 for something which had an ending that pretty much everyone felt was unsatisfying at best. That's not something you do because you love people and you want to do it, that's something you have to do because you're getting flak from every corner of the internet at once and you have to fix your reputation.

Yet 99% of developers don't do that. Bioware didn't have to do anything, especially for free.

 

 

Witcher 2: Enhanced Edition now available free to previous owners

http://www.neoseeker...revious-owners/

it was 17 GB

They give previous owners the same thing. That's not the same as addressing criticism in a free DLC. 

[Paul E Dangerously]

Yet 99% of developers don't do that. Bioware didn't have to do anything, especially for free.

 

 

They give previous owners the same thing. That's not the same as addressing criticism in a free DLC. 

 

1) Yes, you really do. PR is everything, especially in the age of social media. If your house is on fire, you'd damn well better put it out.

 

2) CDPR has never charged for any DLC, and the Witcher 3's DLC will be free as well.

[KaiserShep]

Yet 99% of developers don't do that. Bioware didn't have to do anything, especially for free.

 

 

They give previous owners the same thing. That's not the same as addressing criticism in a free DLC. 

 

Yeah, whatever one might think of BioWare, one thing no one can honestly say is that they don't listen to the fanbase. But what do I know? I don't have my finger to the pulse of the angry internets.

[iggy4566]

Yeah, whatever one might think of BioWare, one thing no one can honestly say is that they don't listen to the fanbase. But what do I know? I don't have my finger to the pulse of the angry internets.

 

angry or not the fanbase is who buys the game thus where the  cash flows so listening to them is a must  as long  as they don't kiss the devs ass and say what they say is law or having people who hate everything about  the game and give no real good or valid points.

[Mockingword]

Yes, it's much better to be vague and non-committal, and refuse to give clarification when asked. Super helpful.