71 réponses à ce sujet

[GmanFresh]

i agree mostly. the darkspawn were "meh"

[Godak]

Addai67 wrote...

Godak wrote...

You know? I have to laugh at the whole "Flemeth saving the Grey Wardens from the tower at the last moment" every single time. It's quite possibly the most forced part of the game. We should of had to escape the tower from whatever tunnel the darkspawn entered. That's really one of the low-lights of the game, for me.

And I have to agree, the story doesn't feel continuous. That's the problem with open-world games that dip into the "World-Devouring-Evil" narrative. It quickly turns into "World-Devouring-Evil-That-Must-Be-Stopped-Oh-I-Need-To-Do-That-Quest-For-Farmer-Joe". It hurts even more, because we hardly hear anything about the darkspawn activities except "Oh, yeah, Lothering was taken. Oops." At the very least, we could hear about some military group that is holding back the darkspawn horde, for the time being. Or did the darkspawn take a vacation and go to Disney Land?

Also, the entire last hour of the game was pretty lame. Oh, yeah, the darkspawn bypassed all other villages/towns and went RIGHT to Denerim. Not to mention the fact the Orlesian Grey Wardens STILL hadn't shown up. How long has it been? A year? More?! Lazy bastards.

You didn't get any random encounters where darkspawn were attacking?  Odd...

The key word there is *random*. Those encounters have no bearing on the story, and we learn very little of what is happening to the citizens of Ferelden. The only major darkspawn attack prior to the final encounter at Denerim was Redcliffe.

...Hell, I've gotten darkspawn ecounters as far north as Denerim before Lothering was destroyed.

Addai67 wrote...
Re. Orlesian Grey Wardens, Riordan tells you that they decided not to enter Ferelden.  Lest the Orlesian GW's meet the same fate at Loghain's hands that the Ferelden ones did.  What good would that do anyone?

Riordan wanted to investigate what happened to the Ferelden Grey Wardens, and he was imprisoned. What, is it ok for Grey Wardens to shirk their duty as long as it isn't their country being invaded? That seems to be the only logical conclusion, as no Orlesian Wardens seemed to give a crap about Duncan and Riordan's mysterious disappearance. Strange, as they seem to be two well-respected members...

Addai67 wrote...
Sorry, but it seems to me that there was plenty of detail in the game fleshing the story out, you just weren't paying attention or something.

You seem to be under the impression that I think the story was shallow. I do not. I think it is disjointed. It would have been better to get cutscenes after each Blight Quest we completed, so we could see what was going on in the world. The cutscenes with Howe/Loghain were on the right track, but we only got a few of those, and they had nothing to do with the Blight and its affects on Ferelden. We're left wondering what the darkspawn are doing, and why we aren't invited.

[tomas819]

I just have to say I disagree about the tower rescue being just a "Deus Ex Machina". THe more you learn of Flemeth (and Morrigan) the more you realize they needed you/Grey Wardens alive for purposes all their own.

Bear in mind that Flemeth only rescues the wardens -- not the other two guys. There was reasoning and calculation behind that decision.

The more I play this game, the more I marvel at its depth and complexity.

Modifié par tomas819, 23 janvier 2010 - 03:11 .

[Genoq]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

No, but I've played FO3 and Oblivion. And you're right, open world stories have their own charm. I really love them. But Bioware doesn't do such stories. Their focus and their expertise lies elsewhere. The characters in open world games I find to be far less fleshed out, I don't know their story or their motivation; history and culture are dealt with in a very sketchy manner; and so on.

In other words - you can't have your cake and eat it too. Game developers have to concentrate time, effort, and money on something (or perhaps several somethings); there aren't the resources to do it all, let alone do it all in a reasonable time frame.

In an ideal world, an rpg would have the complex world history and culture, and the fascinating character interactions of  DAO-  in combination with open ended quests and open worlds that you can really explore (like Oblivion). And other things too, that I won't bother to enumerate. In other words, we'd get a perfect game.

I would so love that.

Of course, we'd still have the problem that my perfect game might not be your perfect game.

[Edited for idiocy by the author. I just can't type today.]

I know I made it sound like Fallout 2 was an open ended, elderscrolls-esque game, but in truth it couldn't be farther from it; it actually has more in common with DAO than it's own "Sequel", to say nothing of oblivion.

It's hard to describe it to someone who hasn't played something like it, actually. But Good Old Games sells it as a DRM-free download for $5.00, and Steam has it too I think. Best five bucks you will ever spend.

Back to the topic:
I actually like DAO's lack of "epicness", in fact I wish there was less of it; imagine a DA set during the Orlesian occupation, where your goal is to help King Maric and the rebels unite the nobles against their oppressors, or alternatively, side with the empire against your countrymen. Now that would be an RPG.

Modifié par Genoq, 23 janvier 2010 - 03:24 .

[Godak]

tomas819 wrote...

I just have to say I disagree about the tower rescue being just a "Deus Ex Machina". THe more you learn of Flemeth (and Morrigan) the more you realize they needed you/Grey Wardens alive for purposes all their own.

Bear in mind that Flemeth only rescues the wardens -- not the other two guys. There was reasoning and calculation behind that decision.

The more I play this game, the more I marvel at its depth and complexity.

That doesn't make it any less of a "Oh-my-goodness-how-perfect-you-arrived-just-in-time-for-me-to-not-die-why-is-your-daughter-such-a-****?" moment. Really, the entire reasoning behind it all was idiotic. Flemeth knew that one of the treaties would lead the group to the Circle Tower. Flemeth also knew that the Circle Magi had taken her grimoire. This grimoire contained the secret to Flemeth's long life. Why would she send her daughter on a quest that would lead her straight to her mother's dark secret? Of course, this all culminates in Flemeth's death.

EDIT:

Genoq wrote...

Back to the topic:
I actually like DAO's lack of "epicness", in fact I wish there was less of it; imagine a DA set during the Orlesian occupation, where your goal is to help King Maric and the rebels unite the nobles against their oppressors, or alternatively, side with the empire against your countrymen. Now that would be an RPG.

This, all over. Dragon Age is at its best when it is dealing with political intrigue, and at its worst when dealing with the darkspawn.

Modifié par Godak, 23 janvier 2010 - 03:27 .

[Genoq]

Godak wrote...

tomas819 wrote...

I just have to say I disagree about the tower rescue being just a "Deus Ex Machina". THe more you learn of Flemeth (and Morrigan) the more you realize they needed you/Grey Wardens alive for purposes all their own.

Bear in mind that Flemeth only rescues the wardens -- not the other two guys. There was reasoning and calculation behind that decision.

The more I play this game, the more I marvel at its depth and complexity.

That doesn't make it any less of a "Oh-my-goodness-how-perfect-you-arrived-just-in-time-for-me-to-not-die-why-is-your-daughter-such-a-****?" moment. Really, the entire reasoning behind it all was idiotic. Flemeth knew that one of the treaties would lead the group to the Circle Tower. Flemeth also knew that the Circle Magi had taken her grimoire. This grimoire contained the secret to Flemeth's long life. Why would she send her daughter on a quest that would lead her straight to her mother's dark secret? Of course, this all culminates in Flemeth's death.

That is not flemeth's true intent, It's fully explained at the end of the game (it was for me anyway), and it actually makes much more sense. I don't know if I can post it without breaking forum rules, but I'll PM it to you if you really want to know.

[Godak]

Genoq wrote...

Godak wrote...

tomas819 wrote...

I just have to say I disagree about the tower rescue being just a "Deus Ex Machina". THe more you learn of Flemeth (and Morrigan) the more you realize they needed you/Grey Wardens alive for purposes all their own.

Bear in mind that Flemeth only rescues the wardens -- not the other two guys. There was reasoning and calculation behind that decision.

The more I play this game, the more I marvel at its depth and complexity.

That doesn't make it any less of a "Oh-my-goodness-how-perfect-you-arrived-just-in-time-for-me-to-not-die-why-is-your-daughter-such-a-****?" moment. Really, the entire reasoning behind it all was idiotic. Flemeth knew that one of the treaties would lead the group to the Circle Tower. Flemeth also knew that the Circle Magi had taken her grimoire. This grimoire contained the secret to Flemeth's long life. Why would she send her daughter on a quest that would lead her straight to her mother's dark secret? Of course, this all culminates in Flemeth's death.

That is not flemeth's true intent, It's fully explained at the end of the game (it was for me anyway), and it actually makes much more sense. I don't know if I can post it without breaking forum rules, but I'll PM it to you if you really want to know.

The whole Morrigan-child thing? I doubt that Flemeth actually had any part in that. It's always been my belief that she was simply planning to use the child for the same ritual Flemeth was using her for.

[Sandtigress]

Godak wrote...

The whole Morrigan-child thing? I doubt that Flemeth actually had any part in that. It's always been my belief that she was simply planning to use the child for the same ritual Flemeth was using her for.

If you ask Morrigan about it, she says that this is what her mother planned from the very beginning.  As I said before, there is a reason she didn't rescue someone like the King or Duncan.  She rescued two inexperienced but NEW Wardens, at least one male, precisely for this reason.  It was not chance that the two of you were picked.

[Addai]

Godak wrote...

Riordan wanted to investigate what happened to the Ferelden Grey Wardens, and he was imprisoned. What, is it ok for Grey Wardens to shirk their duty as long as it isn't their country being invaded? That seems to be the only logical conclusion, as no Orlesian Wardens seemed to give a crap about Duncan and Riordan's mysterious disappearance. Strange, as they seem to be two well-respected members...

Addai67 wrote...
Sorry, but it seems to me that there was plenty of detail in the game fleshing the story out, you just weren't paying attention or something.

You seem to be under the impression that I think the story was shallow. I do not. I think it is disjointed. It would have been better to get cutscenes after each Blight Quest we completed, so we could see what was going on in the world. The cutscenes with Howe/Loghain were on the right track, but we only got a few of those, and they had nothing to do with the Blight and its affects on Ferelden. We're left wondering what the darkspawn are doing, and why we aren't invited.

The Orlesian Wardens chose to send scouts first rather than to come in force, a duty for which Riordan volunteered.  Should they all have volunteered to sit in Howe's dungeon?  Or spent their strength defeating Loghain and then neither Ferelden nor Orlais has any Wardens at all left to fight a Blight?

I don't consider the story disjointed, and what freedom is given is because it is a game where player choices can affect many different aspects of the world.  The darkspawn random encounters are tied to the main story because they often involve allies you have raised, giving the impression of armies in motion.  The Dead Trenches cutscene shows you that the darkspawn on the surface are raiding and scouting parties, not the main force, which is gathering in the Deep Roads under the archdemon's call.  Again, I get the impression you just missed some stuff.  If cities were being destroyed in game time, it would have the effect of cutting players off from unfinished quests.

I'm not sure I'd want to play the kind of game you're suggesting.  It sounds more like watching a movie than playing a video game.

Modifié par Addai67, 23 janvier 2010 - 04:09 .

[Godak]

Sandtigress wrote...

Godak wrote...

The whole Morrigan-child thing? I doubt that Flemeth actually had any part in that. It's always been my belief that she was simply planning to use the child for the same ritual Flemeth was using her for.

If you ask Morrigan about it, she says that this is what her mother planned from the very beginning.  As I said before, there is a reason she didn't rescue someone like the King or Duncan.  She rescued two inexperienced but NEW Wardens, at least one male, precisely for this reason.  It was not chance that the two of you were picked.

I just said that I didn't believe Morrigan's whole "Sleep with me, mommy wants you to!". I don't think it's too far fetched that Flemeth was more interested in self-preservation than world-saving.

Addai67 wrote...

The Orlesian Wardens chose to send scouts first rather than to come in force, a duty for which Riordan volunteered.  Should they all have volunteered to sit in Howe's dungeon?  Or spent their strength defeating Loghain and then neither Ferelden nor Orlais has any Wardens at all left to fight a Blight?

Oh, goody! 'Cause what they did was so much better, right? Allowing the Blight to grow and grow, unchecked for all they knew...The Orlesians has no reason to believe that there were any Wardens still active in Ferelden. It seems that laws and imprisonment should have been the least of their worries.

Not to mention the fact that Grey Wardens have a history of doing whatever may be necessary to end a Blight. You'd think they'd just assassinate Loghain and call it a day.

Addai67 wrote...
I don't consider the story disjointed, and what freedom is given is because it is a game where player choices can affect many different aspects of the world. 

How is it not disjointed? One moment you're in Ostagar, where the Blight is clearly the largest concern, and the next you're going around saving elves from the big-bad-wolf.

Anyway, It's just a pretty big leap from "ZOMG! Darkspawnz!" to "Hey. Wazzup. You need some dogs put down?"

Addai67 wrote...
The darkspawn random encounters are tied to the main story because they often involve allies you have raised, giving the impression of armies in motion. 

 
I've only experience one such encounter across all my playthroughs, and I helped the Dalish.

Addai67 wrote...
The Dead Trenches cutscene shows you that the darkspawn on the surface are raiding and scouting parties, not the main force, which is gathering in the Deep Roads under the archdemon's call.  Again, I get the impression you just missed some stuff.  If cities were being destroyed in game time, it would have the effect of cutting players off from unfinished quests.

You're thinking far too small. Why must anything I suggest be done within the confines of the Ferelden we get in-game? There are far more human villages than just Redcliffe, and more cities than Denerim.

Also, it seems less like Darkspawn gathering, and more like a horde so massive that it just keeps going, and going, and going...

All the more reason for the Orlesian Grey Wardens to be doing more than sipping wine and eating cheese on bread, no?

Addai67 wrote...
I'm not sure I'd want to play the kind of game you're suggesting.  It sounds more like watching a movie than playing a video game.

What? Four to five more cutscenes make it a movie? I believe this is where I roll my eyes and twiddle my thumbs while making snarky comments.

*Ahem*

Just joking. I really do understand where you're coming from. I just really feel that a cutscene here or there showing darkspawn moving through the countryside killing unapposed would add a certain...urgency...to your quest.

Also, I don't like the Orlesian Grey Wardens. Just wondering if you could tell.

Modifié par Godak, 23 janvier 2010 - 04:39 .

[SusanStoHelit]

I think I know what you're saying, although I disagree with some of it, at least to an extent. I'll address only one point at the moment.

Five different stories: yes, it does feel that way. The reason I personally like the Dalish origin best is in part based on the fact that it's the only origin that gives you a personal reason to want to become a grey warden. Dwarves have a reason to fight the darkspawn - but not to become grey wardens (our pcs don't, I mean). Human nobles, city elves, and magi don't either. They become grey wardens for other reasons: duty, politics, escape, whatever. The Dalish elf must become a grey warden to live - and has a personal reason (two of them, actually, if we include Tamlen, though that is revealed later) to fight the darkspawn and stop the blight. The others are all focused on vengeance, politics, freedom, or whatever.

Now all those things are interesting, and they tie us more closely into the society and culture of Orzammar or Fereldan - but they have little to do with a choice to become a Grey Warden and a focus on the blight.

For most of the game, many of my characters start out being totally resentful at being recruited into the wardens, which they didn't want (that's how I'd feel in their situation, in their origins), and didn't know Duncan, and cared more about their family and people than about the blight. They, in fact, did NOT feel cut off from that origin - but still heavily connected to it. Despite the lore that Grey Wardens leave their past behind. It felt like my Couslands dragged it with them - and the same for my Aeducans, and so on.

But how would you suggest we fix that? As far as I can see, the only way to focus on the Grey Wardens and the Blight would be to remove the origins. To take away people's background. Start with a grey warden character, where you just pick something like: elven - City elf - female. And then get a codex entry giving a bit of background on the alienage. And no family connections. But that would remove much of what makes DAO unique and interesting. What makes each character so different. Then the only difference between a city elf and a Dalish elf is a codex entry; or between a Dwarf commoner and Dwarf noble; indeed even between a magi and a dwarf the only difference would be class/talents. Imo this would detract from immersion in a significant way.

Unless you can see a way to do both? Maybe I'm just blind, I don't know.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 23 janvier 2010 - 04:39 .

[DariusKalera]

The problem that I had with the story is that, by the end of it, neither Loghain nor the Archdemon felt like the big bads that they were made out to be.



The civil war that was supposed to be tearing the country apart was actually only one battle between a dozen guys and the PC's party. And, on top of that, Loghain only goes out of his way once to try and kill you and that was when he sent Zevran after the PC.



It would have been interesting to have the PC stumble onto a few random civil war fights.



As for the Blight, there was no sense of urgency to it. Maybe if there had been more darkspawn encounters as you progressed through the game and gained allies. That way, it would have felt like the Blight was actually expanding to match that fog the passed over the big map.

[Celuwen]

Ooh juicy topic, thanks OP!



Firstly, I am surprised that anyone believes that Flemeth is dead. I don't want to spoil the OP about the end of the game, so I will simply say that I believe that Morrigan, despite her own wishes, is probably always playing into Flemeth's hands/claws.



As for the idea of fragmentation of story, I do think while this is true, it is handled rather well within the story/game. Much better than I've seen before really. The segregation is already there, the elves, the humans, the dwarves and the mages. They are in their own little worlds, but aren't we all?



The one thing I do agree with you, OP, on is that the Blight and the Darkspawn often feel secondary.



Like other folk have said, this game only improves on replay. I'm on my third, and I have plans for my forth and fifth. I'm thinking by then, I might have had enough.

[Dragonfliet]

Godak wrote...
That doesn't make it any less of a "Oh-my-goodness-how-perfect-you-arrived-just-in-time-for-me-to-not-die-why-is-your-daughter-such-a-****?" moment. Really, the entire reasoning behind it all was idiotic. Flemeth knew that one of the treaties would lead the group to the Circle Tower. Flemeth also knew that the Circle Magi had taken her grimoire. This grimoire contained the secret to Flemeth's long life. Why would she send her daughter on a quest that would lead her straight to her mother's dark secret? Of course, this all culminates in Flemeth's death.


This, all over. Dragon Age is at its best when it is dealing with political intrigue, and at its worst when dealing with the darkspawn.

To be honest, the Flemeth saving you at the last moment bit actually feels very central to the story and to the character. Her goal (if we believe morrigan) is the creation of the new god for which she needs a Grey Warden to mate with her daughter. She can't just foist her daughter on your party however, it would never be accepted. When the battle swings, however, she leaps into action (having been watching the battle, of course), saving you from your death and making it so that her offer to send her daughter can essentially not be refused. Seems within the logic of the character for me.

As for the Circle Tower: She knows the circle HAS the Grimoir, but she doesn't know that in the last week it has been overrun by Abominations and so the grimoir, which is safely locked up in a place the player would otherwise NEVER be able to get into (and would not know, really, where to look), is free for the taking. So that she sends her daughter on the errand that eventually leads to her death isn't actually a stupid move on her part, but rather an unfortunate series of timing.

And that's really the biggest flaw with this game. What a coincidence that in the same week as the blight has hit, Loghain starts a civil war, the werewolves attack the dalish, the king dies in orzamar, and a riot has happened in Denirum (Forgive my misspelling of fictional places), and not only has the Arl been poisoined by Loghain (not a coinicidince) but the Arl's son is really a mage and he accidentally opens up a portal from the fade. Talk about a bad week. On their own, the people ignoring the problem that's a little bit away for the problem that's in their face is absolutely believable, but all together, they are a silly device to spawn gameplay. The actual blight, however, was smartly handled.

I also disagree with the political intrigue bit. It was terribly done. Loghain's reason for betraying the king? He invited Orlesian grey wardens? Is that really the reason? And the political set up afterwards is absurd. Ugh. I was very dissapointed. What was BEST about this game were the companions. The way they reacted to the things you did, to the choices you made, to OTHER PARTY MEMBERS, to the npcs around them, etc. was wonderfully done. Not perfect, but it was still the best part of the game for me. I was particularly thrilled with the character or Morrigan, who could have been a simple evil with a warm, oozy heart, but was really a much more complex character than most people would give her credit for. There were others that were great (Zevran is evil and callow, but is against slavery of elves springs to mind) as well.

~Jason

[DarthWarduke]

I think Bioware makes some of the best game ever, but they need some SUPER writers on that staff. People like Terry Brooks, or better yet... R.A Salvatore. If they had him as lead writer for plots thier games would be 11 stars on a 10 star scale!



On the game.. I personally think that the grey warden should be able to say "screw you and your problems, follow me or I will slaughter you and your entire village". Afterall these guys are more like a cult than a group of heroes. ~Duncan "Hey you come with me.. you have ZERO choice in the matter, oh did I forget to mention I am going to force you to drink blood and possibly kill you? Or that you have a lifespan of 30 years in which time you will go mad and head for the deep roads to battle darkspawn in your old age... no cozy front porch and lemonaide for you"!!

[Addai]

Godak wrote...

I've only experience one such encounter across all my playthroughs, and I helped the Dalish.

Strange indeed.  You didn't come across a mage and mage apprentices fighting darkspawn, dwarves fighting darkspawn + 2 ogres, elven scouts attacked by a large band plus two shrieks, and Redcliffe soldiers fighting darkspawn?  I have obviously come across these enough in 4-5 playthroughs that I remember them in detail.  This in addition to the caravan and refugees you come across who are being attacked, which at least somewhat addresses your complaint about us not seeing darkspawn raiding other parts of Ferelden than the towns on the game map.

Also, I don't like the Orlesian Grey Wardens. Just wondering if you could tell.

You don't say!  Given that there are no Fereldan Grey Wardens or king's army to bring a report, Orlais did not even know for sure that there was a Blight until Riordan himself came and sensed the Archdemon.  And there was no way for him to get back to report.  This is confirmed by Wynne's comment at the post-coronation that you had stopped the Blight before other nations were scarcely even aware of its existence.

[Levowitz]

This is a loaded topic. you posted in a no spoilers forum so no one could refute you.

[SusanStoHelit]

It's not a no spoiler forum - it's a spoiler warning forum.

[Sandtigress]

DarthWarduke wrote...

I think Bioware makes some of the best game ever, but they need some SUPER writers on that staff. People like Terry Brooks, or better yet... R.A Salvatore. If they had him as lead writer for plots thier games would be 11 stars on a 10 star scale!

Salvatore would never take the offer, I think.    He just got a new 6 book contract with Wizards (of which I need to start hinting strongly at a new Artemis Entreri book - I AM a member of his unofficial fan club, after all), and at least to this year is still working with 38 Studios on their little pet game project, so you'll get your wish there at least, probably.

Actually, I think Gaider and co have done a fantastic job writing this game.  I have never gotten this much replay value out of a game, and I've been gaming for something like 20 years, and reading for about that much too.  Maybe its just that I'm too familiar with Salvatore's work now and don't mind something fresh, but much as I love him I'm glad to see other people doing great things in the gaming industry.

[Time Spiral]

Levowitz wrote...

This is a loaded topic. you posted in a no spoilers forum so no one could refute you.

Huh?


Be peaceful on your way,
Time_Spiraling

[Godak]

Addai67 wrote...

Godak wrote...

I've only experience one such encounter across all my playthroughs, and I helped the Dalish.

Strange indeed.  You didn't come across a mage and mage apprentices fighting darkspawn, dwarves fighting darkspawn + 2 ogres, elven scouts attacked by a large band plus two shrieks, and Redcliffe soldiers fighting darkspawn?  I have obviously come across these enough in 4-5 playthroughs that I remember them in detail.  This in addition to the caravan and refugees you come across who are being attacked, which at least somewhat addresses your complaint about us not seeing darkspawn raiding other parts of Ferelden than the towns on the game map.

I have six playthroughs (I'm re-doing some of the origins) going at the moment, and I've completed two. I suppose that I'm just supremely unlucky (Or lucky, if these battles are some kind of annoyance). The best way to make sure that EVERYONE sees that the darkspawn aren't having keg parties in the Kocari Wilds would be to have a few small cutscenes here or there.

Addai67 wrote...
Given that there are no Fereldan Grey Wardens or king's army to bring a report, Orlais did not even know for sure that there was a Blight until Riordan himself came and sensed the Archdemon. 

...And you might think that the Orlesian Wardens would be a bit worried, seeing that they haven't heard from their compatriots in quite some time.

Addai67 wrote...
And there was no way for him to get back to report.  This is confirmed by Wynne's comment at the post-coronation that you had stopped the Blight before other nations were scarcely even aware of its existence.

A report should not have been necessary. You'd think that the men Riordan had spent much of his life with would be somewhat worried about him, no?

[Addai]

Godak wrote...

I have six playthroughs (I'm re-doing some of the origins) going at the moment, and I've completed two. I suppose that I'm just supremely unlucky (Or lucky, if these battles are some kind of annoyance). The best way to make sure that EVERYONE sees that the darkspawn aren't having keg parties in the Kocari Wilds would be to have a few small cutscenes here or there.

Don't know what to tell you.  I get them every game.  Usually they will pop up not long after you complete that ally quest, i.e. after Broken Circle you come across the mages, etc.  They're no more or less annoying than any other random encounter- a decent battle, especially if you're trying to keep your allies alive.

Modifié par Addai67, 23 janvier 2010 - 11:39 .

[thegreateski]

The story of the game is about resolving the political difficulties of Ferelden, Not defeating the Blight.



Only so much story can be squeezed out of a mindless horde hellbent on destruction.

[TyroneTasty]

Hmm, you actually bring up good points and I see you've moved on to other points, but I must offer mine here. As far as quest givers not caring about the Blight is concerned, I'm not sure that's exactly true. Of course, they care, but also their entire situation is FUBAR. I mean Redcliffe has a demonic child ruling them, Dalish are beset by Werewolves, Dwarves are, well, just stubborn, Mage Tower is being ruled by a Abomination. I mean, none of these places are in any condition to set up an attack on anything.

So in that way, there is urgency to these smaller quests. They all mostly tell you, "Oh, yes we will definitely help but you have to clean things up around before any sort of planning really starts to happen and you better do it quick!"

Tower saving thing is totally a deus ex machina. It's a video game, my standards aren't so high yet that I can't allow a few of these, however.

Did DA:O really bring anything new to the table?

Oh not really, aside from some creative license sprinkled about it was awfully generic, but I still enjoyed it. What made it for me were the characters. Even for playing off your typical fantasy tropes, still they were probably the best written cliche characters I've ever seen in a game, which kept the game interesting. Personally I'm more interested in well written characters than reinventing a genre. This was the first video game I've ever played where I didn't cringe or feel embarassed by certain lines of dialogue, and considering how many there were, this is no small feat, and yes I do read books, so I'm not basing the quality here on just games. I mean even Alistair's final speech at the end somehow managed to avoid feeling campy. I mean that stuff always falls flat.

I didn't experience wonder since it was all mostly typical stuff but I did experience a real attachment to the world and the characters, which is much more important to me.

Modifié par TyroneTasty, 24 janvier 2010 - 12:19 .

[Genoq]

TyroneTasty wrote...

Did DA:O really bring anything new to the table?

Oh not really, aside from some creative license sprinkled about it was awfully generic, but I still enjoyed it. What made it for me were the characters. Even for playing off your typical fantasy tropes, still they were probably the best written cliche characters I've ever seen in a game, which kept the game interesting. Personally I'm more interested in well written characters than reinventing a genre. This was the first video game I've ever played where I didn't cringe or feel embarassed by certain lines of dialogue, and considering how many there were, this is no small feat, and yes I do read books, so I'm not basing the quality here on just games. I mean even Alistair's final speech at the end somehow managed to avoid feeling campy. I mean that stuff always falls flat.

I didn't experience wonder since it was all mostly typical stuff but I did experience a real attachment to the world and the characters, which is much more important to me.

Off topic again:
You need to play Planescape: Torment if well written dialogue and great characters are your thing. As much as I liked Dragon Age, as far as writing is concerned, Torment blew DAO right out of the water and into the stratosphere. And the PS:T setting is definitely not cliche.

On topic:
One thing I did like about DAO's generic setting though was the actual dragons. I mean, when was the last time you played an RPG where you could even see, let alone fight, a dragon? Ultima V? I don't play console games, so maybe it's just me, but I thought giving you actual dragons to fight had kind of a nostalgic charm to it; plus it was damn fun.