So, you sit down with a bottle of decent table wine at your meal. It's nice. It goes well with pasta. You drink a glass of it, and then complain that it's not up to your standards. It wasn't as nuanced as you thought it should be. You were expecting oak, soft tannins, with maybe some lush currant. Maybe you were expecting Château Margaux, I dunno. Me, I'm thrilled to finally not be drinking the standard industry Zima.
If you want fine literature, this is not the place to be looking for it. There's always the "If you keep your standards low, the industry will never improve!" I say my standards aren't low, but I just don't get myself into a snit looking for Tolstoy-quality material where there's none to be found yet.
*SHRUGS* - It's just a silly BLIGHT. No biggie ...
Débuté par
Time Spiral
, janv. 22 2010 08:26
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#52
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 04:28
Deldarian
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I honestly just got a kick that the darkspawn looked, fought, and even felt like Tolkien-esc creatures. And to everyone complaining about the very simple darkspawn, I.e. they kill all they see., I'm glad that its that way, I'm tired of having games having noble orcs etc, having hordes of savage evil creatures is just awesome.
#53
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 04:40
Addai
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Deldarian wrote...
I honestly just got a kick that the darkspawn looked, fought, and even felt like Tolkien-esc creatures. And to everyone complaining about the very simple darkspawn, I.e. they kill all they see., I'm glad that its that way, I'm tired of having games having noble orcs etc, having hordes of savage evil creatures is just awesome.
You won't want to read the game novels, then.
#54
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 06:19
Time Spiral
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ciaweth wrote...
So, you sit down with a bottle of decent table wine at your meal. It's nice. It goes well with pasta. You drink a glass of it, and then complain that it's not up to your standards. It wasn't as nuanced as you thought it should be. You were expecting oak, soft tannins, with maybe some lush currant. Maybe you were expecting Château Margaux, I dunno. Me, I'm thrilled to finally not be drinking the standard industry Zima.
If you want fine literature, this is not the place to be looking for it. There's always the "If you keep your standards low, the industry will never improve!" I say my standards aren't low, but I just don't get myself into a snit looking for Tolstoy-quality material where there's none to be found yet.
Ironically, Ciaweth, your post has the makings of some decent storytelling! Ha!
But seriously, you sound a little jaded. I loved DA:O, in fact I just finished the end-game sequence tonight. I was a little sad to see it end, but also a little happy in some ways (almost like a vacation, you know?)
This has been a great thread. Maybe you don't see the value in it? Eh. Oh well. Lots are.
But in specific regards to your quote ... huh? I'm not sure what I expected when I sat down to play DA. And this thread is kinda my way of saying, "hey, here's how it turned out for me: I liked A, didn't like B, and wondered, where the hell was C, and and D was pretty awesome! What do you guys think?"
Let's keep rollin' with the momentum here. Ciaweth's bottle must have been corked or something ... (wink, j/p)
Be peaceful on your way,
Time_Spiraling
#55
Posté 24 janvier 2010 - 11:08
shree420
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I think the Blight's urgency level was pretty well done. Not so understated as to be - "Blight? What's that?" nor too overdone as to be destroying quest points, as somebody else pointed out earlier.
The first thing to note is that it's a game, so Bioware needed to give people the freedom to waltz across the map as many times they need to, without telling them, "No, you can't go there anymore, the darkspawn have destroyed it." It would then mean a very linear story - get the elves and Redcliffe out first because they'll likely be the first ones attacked etc. etc.
When you talked to the "help-giver in charge" in each location, they've pretty much no way of helping you, until you lend a hand. It does trivialize the game somewhat that your merry band of four or less can do what they can't, but again, it wouldn't be a story otherwise. Epic-ity demands it.
Also, as the game progresses, you get more darkspawn encounters; generally, after you finish a major quest and gain an ally, and travel across the map, you'll get an encounter against darkspawn with those particular allies. But to be continually having to fight off darkspawn hordes everytime you travelled would be bothersome, as would be progress update reports: The Horde has now reached the Brecilian forest etc. through cutscenes. More dramatic maybe, but on a cost-benefit scale, not so much required.
A really nice touch is that as the game progresses, the map loading screen will show the dark black taint spreading further and further over the map. Subtle, but a great reminder.
Great thread, however, it's nice to read and debate these points.
The first thing to note is that it's a game, so Bioware needed to give people the freedom to waltz across the map as many times they need to, without telling them, "No, you can't go there anymore, the darkspawn have destroyed it." It would then mean a very linear story - get the elves and Redcliffe out first because they'll likely be the first ones attacked etc. etc.
When you talked to the "help-giver in charge" in each location, they've pretty much no way of helping you, until you lend a hand. It does trivialize the game somewhat that your merry band of four or less can do what they can't, but again, it wouldn't be a story otherwise. Epic-ity demands it.
Also, as the game progresses, you get more darkspawn encounters; generally, after you finish a major quest and gain an ally, and travel across the map, you'll get an encounter against darkspawn with those particular allies. But to be continually having to fight off darkspawn hordes everytime you travelled would be bothersome, as would be progress update reports: The Horde has now reached the Brecilian forest etc. through cutscenes. More dramatic maybe, but on a cost-benefit scale, not so much required.
A really nice touch is that as the game progresses, the map loading screen will show the dark black taint spreading further and further over the map. Subtle, but a great reminder.
Great thread, however, it's nice to read and debate these points.
#56
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 03:36
Addai
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Thing is, a couple of the allies quests also relate to the main story because the dilemma your allies is in is a direct result of Loghain's scheming. Not so with the dwarves and Dalish, of course.
#57
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 03:51
wwwwowwww
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Ok I will add my 2 cents for what it's worth.
I agree there is no sense of urgency, no sense of fear. I can play around at camp forever and never have to worry about a thing cuz nothing is happening as far as the darkspawn go.
Lothering was taken yet I can walk through that area a thousand times and not encounter darkspawn. I can travel back down to Flemeths hut a hop skip and a jump from Ostagar and not encounter anything.
I've complained about the whole we have our own problems thing before, lol. Are these the only Dalish around? Do they speak for all the elves?
I agree there is no sense of urgency, no sense of fear. I can play around at camp forever and never have to worry about a thing cuz nothing is happening as far as the darkspawn go.
Lothering was taken yet I can walk through that area a thousand times and not encounter darkspawn. I can travel back down to Flemeths hut a hop skip and a jump from Ostagar and not encounter anything.
I've complained about the whole we have our own problems thing before, lol. Are these the only Dalish around? Do they speak for all the elves?
#58
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 06:38
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My opinion, for what it's worth:
Maybe there isn't a huge sense of urgency for you. That comes with the genre. Every RPG allows people to explore and learn about the world they are in and have side quests. Sometimes, as with the elder scrolls games (which I do like) it borders on the ridiculous. So the Emperor gave me a task in Oblivion to go seal a portal that is spewing demons out into the world . . . meh, I'll get around to it, but first I'd like to get promoted in this guild for theives so I can get enough money to buy a house. The only RPG I can think of that forced players to have a sense of urgency was the release version of the original Fallout, in which you lost the game if you took too long. Everyone complained and in the patch they took away the time limit. Dragon Age's story and dialogue provide a sense of urgency, if you want to roleplay and take that into account than you are free to skip side quests that seem unimportant. No one is forcing you to diddle around camp and go back to the Circle Tower ten times to go shopping. In fact whenever your companions bring you personal quests you have the choice to say that you don't think you will have time to help them. If the game were made a different way, and the game penalized the player for accepting quests and exploring too much, no one would be happy with it.
I suppose the story is a little fragmented. But a "nation" in a midievalish period shouldnt really be that integrated anyway. I am happy that this is not a game where your actions in one town affect the way a shopkeeper reacts to you a thousand miles away. In the kind of society we see in the game, how many people are ever even going to leave the village they grew up in? One percent? Why should a shopkeeper in Denerim know about, much less care about, what I did in Orzamar. I think this explains people's general reactions to the Blight too. As a Warden your character can take a macro perspective, but a short sighted person who's never seen a darkspawn before isn't going to be overly concerned until they come knocking on the door.
Maybe there isn't a huge sense of urgency for you. That comes with the genre. Every RPG allows people to explore and learn about the world they are in and have side quests. Sometimes, as with the elder scrolls games (which I do like) it borders on the ridiculous. So the Emperor gave me a task in Oblivion to go seal a portal that is spewing demons out into the world . . . meh, I'll get around to it, but first I'd like to get promoted in this guild for theives so I can get enough money to buy a house. The only RPG I can think of that forced players to have a sense of urgency was the release version of the original Fallout, in which you lost the game if you took too long. Everyone complained and in the patch they took away the time limit. Dragon Age's story and dialogue provide a sense of urgency, if you want to roleplay and take that into account than you are free to skip side quests that seem unimportant. No one is forcing you to diddle around camp and go back to the Circle Tower ten times to go shopping. In fact whenever your companions bring you personal quests you have the choice to say that you don't think you will have time to help them. If the game were made a different way, and the game penalized the player for accepting quests and exploring too much, no one would be happy with it.
I suppose the story is a little fragmented. But a "nation" in a midievalish period shouldnt really be that integrated anyway. I am happy that this is not a game where your actions in one town affect the way a shopkeeper reacts to you a thousand miles away. In the kind of society we see in the game, how many people are ever even going to leave the village they grew up in? One percent? Why should a shopkeeper in Denerim know about, much less care about, what I did in Orzamar. I think this explains people's general reactions to the Blight too. As a Warden your character can take a macro perspective, but a short sighted person who's never seen a darkspawn before isn't going to be overly concerned until they come knocking on the door.
#59
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 07:05
Lotion Soronarr
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You gotta admitt aht it does feel a bit...stretched.
I mean, WTF was the blight doing for the whole year? It's ramped up as a massive threat, but you really see too little of it till the very end.
It looks and feels like the blight is waiting for you.
I guess that's the price you have to pay whn there's no time or quest limits or checks.
But in this case, it's more than that. Methinks that could have been done better from the storytelling aspect.
I mean, WTF was the blight doing for the whole year? It's ramped up as a massive threat, but you really see too little of it till the very end.
It looks and feels like the blight is waiting for you.
I guess that's the price you have to pay whn there's no time or quest limits or checks.
But in this case, it's more than that. Methinks that could have been done better from the storytelling aspect.
#60
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 07:17
wwwwowwww
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angj57 wrote...
My opinion, for what it's worth:
Maybe there isn't a huge sense of urgency for you. That comes with the genre. Every RPG allows people to explore and learn about the world they are in and have side quests. Sometimes, as with the elder scrolls games (which I do like) it borders on the ridiculous. So the Emperor gave me a task in Oblivion to go seal a portal that is spewing demons out into the world . . . meh, I'll get around to it, but first I'd like to get promoted in this guild for theives so I can get enough money to buy a house. The only RPG I can think of that forced players to have a sense of urgency was the release version of the original Fallout, in which you lost the game if you took too long. Everyone complained and in the patch they took away the time limit. Dragon Age's story and dialogue provide a sense of urgency, if you want to roleplay and take that into account than you are free to skip side quests that seem unimportant. No one is forcing you to diddle around camp and go back to the Circle Tower ten times to go shopping. In fact whenever your companions bring you personal quests you have the choice to say that you don't think you will have time to help them. If the game were made a different way, and the game penalized the player for accepting quests and exploring too much, no one would be happy with it.
I suppose the story is a little fragmented. But a "nation" in a midievalish period shouldnt really be that integrated anyway. I am happy that this is not a game where your actions in one town affect the way a shopkeeper reacts to you a thousand miles away. In the kind of society we see in the game, how many people are ever even going to leave the village they grew up in? One percent? Why should a shopkeeper in Denerim know about, much less care about, what I did in Orzamar. I think this explains people's general reactions to the Blight too. As a Warden your character can take a macro perspective, but a short sighted person who's never seen a darkspawn before isn't going to be overly concerned until they come knocking on the door.
You know I considered that the average person wouldn't much care, but then I started thinking. Isn't this one of the big things the chantry teaches and talks about in regards to why mages are so dangerous? If so then the average person would care and would react to this.
As for no one forcing me to diddle around in camp, your correct no one is forcing me to do it, but then again no one is really giving me a reason not to either. I mean it was a reletively short time between Ostagar and my going to Lothering, then I leave Lothering and head to Redcliff, but uh oh Lothering is now overrun.
However, then it's just stopped. No real on your heels type of feel, after hitting Lothering they just stop. Why? Are they too performing Chantry board tasks?
#61
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 07:18
Lotion Soronarr
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angj57 wrote...
The only RPG I can think of that forced players to have a sense of urgency was the release version of the original Fallout, in which you lost the game if you took too long. Everyone complained and in the patch they took away the time limit.
Who is this "everyone"? I know a lot of people who loved that limit. Not to mentiont the game gave you the means to extend that limit.
Buit a time limit is not the only way to go abotu that. You can have a scripted quest-limit. If you took quest A that is urgent, if you go taking other quests and don't deal with quest A, then you face some consequences (more enemies, some of hte vilagers area dead or sumtin).
It's like a time-limit wihout a time-limit
Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 25 janvier 2010 - 07:19 .
#62
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 07:22
SusanStoHelit
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wwwwowwww wrote...
However, then it's just stopped. No real on your heels type of feel, after hitting Lothering they just stop. Why? Are they too performing Chantry board tasks?
The equivalent, perhaps. I seem to remember Ruck talking about the voice calling and the darkspawn all leaving. I assume that most of them (the darkspawn) are gathering and readying for the 'final push'. Maybe also *ick* breeding more darkspawn. What we face is more or less just sorties, scouting parties, and so on. Not the full brunt. Because while the darkspawn are mindless, the Archdemon isn't. And it's not ready yet.
#63
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 07:28
wwwwowwww
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SusanStoHelit wrote...
wwwwowwww wrote...
However, then it's just stopped. No real on your heels type of feel, after hitting Lothering they just stop. Why? Are they too performing Chantry board tasks?
The equivalent, perhaps. I seem to remember Ruck talking about the voice calling and the darkspawn all leaving. I assume that most of them (the darkspawn) are gathering and readying for the 'final push'. Maybe also *ick* breeding more darkspawn. What we face is more or less just sorties, scouting parties, and so on. Not the full brunt. Because while the darkspawn are mindless, the Archdemon isn't. And it's not ready yet.
Yep get that completely, but if the archdemon is moderately intelligent, and I'm guessing it is, why even show your hand that early? As many have said your talking a year out, why push to Lothering when you could have done the same at Ostagar?
#64
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 09:24
esabria
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Bare in mind that their goal has been always to create a believable worls. Fantastic, yet real, plausible. The others react as you would expect them versus humans and their behavior:
Elves are selective and don't trust others. That's what they do both: dalish wander around trying to get a way to survive, isolating themselves; city elves are confined in the alienage and trust only other elves. The ones that go out are either exiled or droven away from there by some sort of love interest/adventure lust. Just to encounter a group of humans that enslave them/steal to them/kill them. Is there a story of trust between elves and humans as a race? This is reflected within the game. In a real way.
Dwarves are isolated beneath earth giving a damn for every other race, with their political problems and prejudices. Tell me one strory in which the dwarves are one united family with no problems between their relatives or with problems in the dwarven throne. In DA:O this is plasmated in an adult way. In a real way. Politics is a ****ty matter, so it is plasmated here: assassination, betrayal, bribe, blackmail... it is all in our politics. All covered in a veil of Honor. Why not in theirs?
And what do we have to tell about the humans....? I think we know them far too well. Humans are making of humans here. Not nice pushing everyone else out, but is what we do. Again, tell me one story that doesn't.
Maybe this world is not pretty, but it is real, which was ultimately the devs goal. And to make it more real, you have to fragment it. period. How do you want the dalish to go and help you, if they are succumbing to the werewolves? how can the dwarves aid you without a king? And the humans if they are not united? The world will not stop because there is a blight. Sort your house first, then go to your neightbours one. It is exactly what happens in-game.
To me, the world is beliavable (as much as fantasy can be), is real. Take any country as an example: everyone talks on common good, citizenship rights and obligations... but the truth is that the only thing people is worried about is solving their own problems. When those problems are solved, THEN they will preocupate themselves with common good. This is exactly what happens in Dragon Age.
Sorry for the long post
Elves are selective and don't trust others. That's what they do both: dalish wander around trying to get a way to survive, isolating themselves; city elves are confined in the alienage and trust only other elves. The ones that go out are either exiled or droven away from there by some sort of love interest/adventure lust. Just to encounter a group of humans that enslave them/steal to them/kill them. Is there a story of trust between elves and humans as a race? This is reflected within the game. In a real way.
Dwarves are isolated beneath earth giving a damn for every other race, with their political problems and prejudices. Tell me one strory in which the dwarves are one united family with no problems between their relatives or with problems in the dwarven throne. In DA:O this is plasmated in an adult way. In a real way. Politics is a ****ty matter, so it is plasmated here: assassination, betrayal, bribe, blackmail... it is all in our politics. All covered in a veil of Honor. Why not in theirs?
And what do we have to tell about the humans....? I think we know them far too well. Humans are making of humans here. Not nice pushing everyone else out, but is what we do. Again, tell me one story that doesn't.
Maybe this world is not pretty, but it is real, which was ultimately the devs goal. And to make it more real, you have to fragment it. period. How do you want the dalish to go and help you, if they are succumbing to the werewolves? how can the dwarves aid you without a king? And the humans if they are not united? The world will not stop because there is a blight. Sort your house first, then go to your neightbours one. It is exactly what happens in-game.
To me, the world is beliavable (as much as fantasy can be), is real. Take any country as an example: everyone talks on common good, citizenship rights and obligations... but the truth is that the only thing people is worried about is solving their own problems. When those problems are solved, THEN they will preocupate themselves with common good. This is exactly what happens in Dragon Age.
Sorry for the long post
#65
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 09:26
wwwwowwww
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esabria wrote...
Dwarves are isolated beneath earth giving a damn for every other race, with their political problems and prejudices. Tell me one strory in which the dwarves are one united family with no problems between their relatives or with problems in the dwarven throne. In DA:O this is plasmated in an adult way. In a real way. Politics is a ****ty matter, so it is plasmated here: assassination, betrayal, bribe, blackmail... it is all in our politics. All covered in a veil of Honor. Why not in theirs?
Sorry for the long post
Yep and our leadership sucks!!!!!!!!!!!
#66
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 09:36
esabria
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BTW, on the darkspawn thing.
There is no better strategy in war than pure terror. At least, it is the one hordes usually apply (huns, mongols, ect.). So do the darkspawn. At the moment practically no one believes this is a blight. This should be an important point to consider. if you believe this not to be a blight, you can push the boundaries of the expansion to, 1) create a secure area from where to launch the attacks (it is not hte ame to get out of earth in a trench-way than to have a propper camp running. It is much more organized in the latter), 2) collect resources from that frontline base and, 3) and more important, create fear.
To do 3), we must reach first a populated area. And if you stay there instead of just marching through it will be taken just as an incursion and not an invasion, that would be what triggers the unity. Staying there not advancing, gives a false sense of security that the archdemon (or the architect or whomever runs the show) can use to storm when the numbers have reached surface. i bet getting all those darkspawn to ostagar has taken some time. They need their time to get out from there also, and more time to reassemble in the frontline.
There is no better strategy in war than pure terror. At least, it is the one hordes usually apply (huns, mongols, ect.). So do the darkspawn. At the moment practically no one believes this is a blight. This should be an important point to consider. if you believe this not to be a blight, you can push the boundaries of the expansion to, 1) create a secure area from where to launch the attacks (it is not hte ame to get out of earth in a trench-way than to have a propper camp running. It is much more organized in the latter), 2) collect resources from that frontline base and, 3) and more important, create fear.
To do 3), we must reach first a populated area. And if you stay there instead of just marching through it will be taken just as an incursion and not an invasion, that would be what triggers the unity. Staying there not advancing, gives a false sense of security that the archdemon (or the architect or whomever runs the show) can use to storm when the numbers have reached surface. i bet getting all those darkspawn to ostagar has taken some time. They need their time to get out from there also, and more time to reassemble in the frontline.
#67
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 03:43
Bratinov
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Most problems are trivial.
Heal Eamon? Why? Cant he be replaced since the chances of him surviving are VERY slim? Why go to mount doom and back? Go Sten!!
The Dwarfs dont have a king? Why should I care? They are obliged to help me, its not like its a critical situation.
Overthrowing Logain? Why? He is a able strategist and a strong and respected leader, much better than that manchild of a king.
I dont really like the plot of this game, theres no sence of urgency or acknowledgement that what your doing is of great importance.
Heal Eamon? Why? Cant he be replaced since the chances of him surviving are VERY slim? Why go to mount doom and back? Go Sten!!
The Dwarfs dont have a king? Why should I care? They are obliged to help me, its not like its a critical situation.
Overthrowing Logain? Why? He is a able strategist and a strong and respected leader, much better than that manchild of a king.
I dont really like the plot of this game, theres no sence of urgency or acknowledgement that what your doing is of great importance.
Modifié par Bratinov, 25 janvier 2010 - 03:43 .
#68
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 04:12
cynicalsaint1
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I'd like to note that the Blight does in fact make progress as you go through the game. The game just isn't very good about letting you know. When you look at the map of Fereldan, you'll notice an area with a black blot sort of fading in and out on the map. I'm pretty sure that's meant to show the Blight's current progress. Like the black blot won't reach Lothering till it becomes inaccessible for example.
While it gets bigger and bigger as you complete the main quest areas, it 'coincidentally' never covers the main quest areas. By the end of the game its covered damn near all of Fereldan, so no the Blight doesn't skip all the way from Lothering to Denerim, the game just does a poor job of communicating the progress of the Blight.
I will agree that the game has little sense of urgency, but I've come to expect that of RPGs really. I mean what are they supposed to do? Put a time limit on the game? Get rid of sidequests?
Though it may have been cool to allow you to only complete a certain amount of the main quests, like say you have 10 units of time before you HAVE to deal with the Blight and each main quest requires X units of time, and so forth. But you'd still have to exclude side quests from the timescale, but at least it'd make it seem like the main quests that affect the story need to be done quickly.
While it gets bigger and bigger as you complete the main quest areas, it 'coincidentally' never covers the main quest areas. By the end of the game its covered damn near all of Fereldan, so no the Blight doesn't skip all the way from Lothering to Denerim, the game just does a poor job of communicating the progress of the Blight.
I will agree that the game has little sense of urgency, but I've come to expect that of RPGs really. I mean what are they supposed to do? Put a time limit on the game? Get rid of sidequests?
Though it may have been cool to allow you to only complete a certain amount of the main quests, like say you have 10 units of time before you HAVE to deal with the Blight and each main quest requires X units of time, and so forth. But you'd still have to exclude side quests from the timescale, but at least it'd make it seem like the main quests that affect the story need to be done quickly.
#69
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 04:32
Bratinov
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Mass effect and KOTOR both had a great sense of urgency, even though thay had no time limit whatsoever. Its the fact that no one acknowledges the threat and is like:
"A Blight? Oh well its not like its threatening the existance of life itself, we have our own problems"
"A Blight? Oh well its not like its threatening the existance of life itself, we have our own problems"
#70
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 04:47
esabria
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Bratinov wrote...
Most problems are trivial.
Heal Eamon? Why? Cant he be replaced since the chances of him surviving are VERY slim? Why go to mount doom and back? Go Sten!!
The Dwarfs dont have a king? Why should I care? They are obliged to help me, its not like its a critical situation.
Overthrowing Logain? Why? He is a able strategist and a strong and respected leader, much better than that manchild of a king.
I dont really like the plot of this game, theres no sence of urgency or acknowledgement that what your doing is of great importance.
Trivial compared to the blight, yes, but remember that for most of hte population this is not nothing more than a raid or an organized incursion at most.
You must save Arl Eammon because he is clue to your war effort. He is an ally against Teyrn Loghain, that is an... adversary, to put it in mild words, of the wardens. King Cailan was naive, but he was loyal to the wardens. he believed in his cause, a thing that Loghain does not.
You should care as much about him (can take out the human troops) as much as for the dwarven king. Who will make the call without a king? Who will unite the dwarves? A stranger? a human? Dwarves need a king to gather their armies. With or without the treaty, the dwarves cannot respond to it without someone responding for them.
I agree with you though, that the threat inminency is not very well portrayed.
#71
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 04:50
Curlain
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Bratinov wrote...
Most problems are trivial.
Heal Eamon? Why? Cant he be replaced since the chances of him surviving are VERY slim? Why go to mount doom and back? Go Sten!!
The Dwarfs dont have a king? Why should I care? They are obliged to help me, its not like its a critical situation.
Overthrowing Logain? Why? He is a able strategist and a strong and respected leader, much better than that manchild of a king.
I dont really like the plot of this game, theres no sence of urgency or acknowledgement that what your doing is of great importance.
Well as is pointed out to the Warden, only the Dwarven King is obligated to help your Warden, not the Dwarves as a whole as such, and since there is no King at that point, the Dwarves don't need to give your Warden anything. And for them darkspawn are an everyday reality so appealing to them about the threat of a Blight just won't really cut it with them. So yes, you want their help you need to get a king on the throne to whom your treaty can apply (and which would have sufficient motivation to want to help you, cause in the end a treaty is just a piece of paper unless you have some means to bring it into reality. Be since via gratitude and goodwill from the person/peoples to which the treaty applies, or through some other means to enforce it's points)
#72
Posté 25 janvier 2010 - 06:23
Bratinov
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- Members
- 229 messages
I always saw the whole "only the king is obligated to help you" as an excuse. What about the assembly, doesn't what they say matter? I suppose it does since they chose the king..
And what about the "Paragons"? they don't even care who is king, that sums up how important the position is.
The Warden is not a politician or a judge and has more pressing issues to deal with than solving problems that don't concern him.
Tegann is more than capable to take over since he too opposes Loghain, and even gives the go for you to do whatever you wish at Redclif.. expert saving Jowan but that's another thing.
Eammon is your ally? He just uses you to further his own influence. He wants your advice but in the end he says what you do, you have no say in the matter, hell even after saving his family, castle, villge and life he doesent even grant you Jowan's freedom.
Your reward from him is not financial backup, lands or your personal unit its a...... SHIELD
And what about the "Paragons"? they don't even care who is king, that sums up how important the position is.
The Warden is not a politician or a judge and has more pressing issues to deal with than solving problems that don't concern him.
Tegann is more than capable to take over since he too opposes Loghain, and even gives the go for you to do whatever you wish at Redclif.. expert saving Jowan but that's another thing.
Eammon is your ally? He just uses you to further his own influence. He wants your advice but in the end he says what you do, you have no say in the matter, hell even after saving his family, castle, villge and life he doesent even grant you Jowan's freedom.
Your reward from him is not financial backup, lands or your personal unit its a...... SHIELD
Modifié par Bratinov, 25 janvier 2010 - 06:33 .
