314 réponses à ce sujet

[DRTJR]

I am saddened by the loss of Blood magic, it let Avernus live for centuries, Merrill could cleanse the Aluvian of the Darkspawn taint, and alows a Mage to reattach limbs of themselves or comrades. So I can see why they didn't include it but still bummer.

[Palidane]

There are still no consequences to blood magic use. Aside from people being scared to death of it and it being illegal.

 

Blood magic IS better than mana fueled magic. A blood mage can do everything a mana mage can do and more. A blood mage can switch between the two fuel systems at will.

 

Blood magic is not the dark side of the Force. There are no inherently corrupting properties or negative side effects. Practicioners may become corrupted from having so much power over their environment however. They may start to believe that they are above the law and above morality. They may feel as though they could simply do as they wish and no one could stop them. This is the kind of corruption that all human beings are susceptible to. It has nothing to do with blood magic whatsoever. In real life there are many examples. Politicians, cops, soldiers, the wealthy, huge corporations, husbands over their wives, parents over their children, wardens over their prisoners etc.

 

I've read and reread the blood magic entry of World Of Thedas and it doesn't dispute anything that i've posted.

I don't know about that. It has been said repeatedly that Blood Magic makes you weaker to demons, even if you didn't learn it from them in the first place. World of Thedas also says it gets stronger with murder/hate.

 

I agree that it can be used for good, but the risk is so extreme I basically wouldn't tolerate it in any capacity. The Chantry is wrong about a lot of things, but executing Maleficars is the way to go.

[Ianamus]

There are still no consequences to blood magic use. Aside from people being scared to death of it and it being illegal.

 

Blood magic is not the dark side of the Force. There are no inherently corrupting properties or negative side effects.

 

I've read and reread the blood magic entry of World Of Thedas and it doesn't dispute anything that i've posted.

 

"Mages who experiment with blood magic are more susceptible to demonic spirits, such as pride demons and risk becoming abominations by way of possession."

 

Straight from World of Thedas. Sounds like a consequence and negative side effect to me. 

 

If the only consequence of using blood magic was the people who are scared of it then people wouldn't be scared of it.

[LPPrince]

I look at blood magic as a fantasy-equivalent to certain things that are banned worldwide in today's society during war and combat scenarios.

 

Like, "whoever you are, don't do this as its unnecessary for the desired effect and does something quite horrible if used, you can achieve the same goal through less harmful ways", similar to how certain types of rounds are banned in war and stuff.

 

I don't know if I'll ever roll a blood magic using character, but if I do I'd want my squad to point it out and have their opinions on the matter, whether its their support, apathy, or outright disgust.

[KainD]

"Mages who experiment with blood magic are more susceptible to demonic spirits, such as pride demons and risk becoming abominations by way of possession."

Straight from World of Thedas. Sounds like a consequence and negative side effect to me.

If the only consequence of using blood magic was the people who are scared of it then people wouldn't be scared of it.

Experiment is the key word there. When you experiment it's always a risk.

[Ianamus]

Experiment is the key word there. When you experiment it's always a risk.

 

If a mage cuts their hand to see what the power is like and plays around with it I'd consider that to be "experimenting", and it's just standard blood magic use.

[KainD]

If a mage cuts their hand to see what the power is like and plays around with it I'd consider that to be "experimenting", and it's just standard blood magic use.

And then when the learning and experimentation stops, and when the mage knows what they are doing there is no more risk. And if a mage learns blood magic properly from another experienced blood mage or another reliable source, then there's no risk to begin with.

[KainD]

If the only consequence of using blood magic was the people who are scared of it then people wouldn't be scared of it.

Btw, people are afraid of regular magic, that's why they made circles. What you on about?

[Ianamus]

 

Btw, people are afraid of regular magic, that's why they made circles. What you on about?

 

Yes but even mages have been shown to be afraid of blood magic. And on top of that even non-Andrastian mages. Marethari was scared of Merrills blood magic and what it would do to her despite the fact that the Dalish have different views of magic and the fade, and do not even view demons as inherently evil. 

 

And then when the learning and experimentation stops, and when the mage knows what they are doing there is no more risk. And if a mage learns blood magic properly from another experienced blood mage or another reliable source, then there's no risk to begin with.

 

There is no evidence that there is no danger using blood magic if you are experienced. If experimenting with blood magic makes the user more susceptible to demonic possession it only follows that frequent use does the same, if not increases the chances of possession. 

[KainD]

Yes but even mages have been shown to be afraid of blood magic. And on top of that even non-circle mages. Marethari was scared of Merrills blood magic and what it would do to her despite the fact that the Dalish do not even view demons as inherently evil. 

 

What blood magic is according to the lore doesn't support any dangers. The only danger any mage faces is the same - possession. 

 

 

There is no evidence that there is no danger using blood magic if you are experienced. If experimenting with blood magic makes the user more susceptible to demonic possession it only follows that frequent use does the same, if not increases the chances of possession. 

 

Experimenting with blood magic is more dangerous for the average mage, because it typically gives them more power to experiment with. Powerful experimental spells are dangerous. 

[Ianamus]

What blood magic is according to the lore doesn't support any dangers. The only danger any mage faces is the same - possession. 

 

Greatly increased chances of possession, at the very least. And It's implied to weaken the veil as well.

[Paul E Dangerously]

PC Blood Magic to me always felt so..distended from the lore. PC Mages in general already don't have to suffer whatsoever from what other mages apparently do (demons, etc), and almost doubly so from Blood Magic. Minor health loss, woo. So debilitating.

 

Also in that sense, PC Blood Magic was drastically underpowered from what it is in the lore. It lets you shred the Veil, summon demons, and dominate minds. You just get a few spells with the "blood" descriptor and some health penalties.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Agree except: 

 

 

It's not better, it's the same, just a different source. The more power the better of course, but magic is all the same.

 

The source matters a great deal.

 

Using life force as a source enables a mage to cast unhindered by Templar spells. 

 

Since health is also the mana pool the mage has a virtually unlimited source of healing and mana regeneration as long as there is something made of flesh and blood nearby. The mage can also simply cast using this other creatures blood instead of their own.

[TKavatar]

Greatly increased chances of possession, at the very least. And It's implied to weaken the veil as well.

Normal magic can weaken the Veil as well according to Masked Empire.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Greatly increased chances of possession, at the very least. And It's implied to weaken the veil as well.

 

I call BS.

 

Mana based magic draws from the Fade. The spirit world. Home to demons.

 

Blood magic is cast using the life of the mage or his victim. Completely independent of the Fade.

 

Which one of these makes more sense to attract demons and risk possession?

[Hydromatic]

"There are no consequenses to using blood magic for the user"

The amount of insane blood mages we've seen in the games kind of makes me disagree.

I know alot of people hate the chantry, but trying to justify blood magic seems weird to me. It's not just looked down upon by the chantry. Most mages despise blood magic.

[KainD]

Greatly increased chances of possession, at the very least. And It's implied to weaken the veil as well.

 

It's not stated in the lore. And all magic weakens veil. 

[KainD]

The source matters a great deal.

 

Using life force as a source enables a mage to cast unhindered by Templar spells. 

 

Since health is also the mana pool the mage has a virtually unlimited source of healing and mana regeneration as long as there is something made of flesh and blood nearby. The mage can also simply cast using this other creatures blood instead of their own.

 

Almost. It still takes some mana to establish connection between the blood and the user. A blood mage can't cast for days just because there's plenty of blood around, any spell casting takes strain. 

[KainD]

Mana based magic draws from the Fade. The spirit world. Home to demons.

 

Blood magic is cast using the life of the mage or his victim. Completely independent of the Fade.

 

Which one of these makes more sense to attract demons and risk possession?

 

No, blood magic is magic like anything else. There's a reason mundanes can't cast blood magic. Blood magic also taps into the fade. 

[KainD]

The amount of insane blood mages we've seen in the games kind of makes me disagree.

 

That means absolutely nothing if it's not supported by the lore. So we randomly have a bunch of crazy blood mages, so what? Even though I don't believe most of them were crazy tbh. 

[Aremce]

I call BS.

 

Mana based magic draws from the Fade. The spirit world. Home to demons.

 

Blood magic is cast using the life of the mage or his victim. Completely independent of the Fade.

 

Which one of these makes more sense to attract demons and risk possession?

 

I might be wrong, but I believe blood magic doesn't exactly work through the blood itself alone ... it's still kind of empowered by energy from the Fade, demonic energy that is. Why else do mages normally have to make a deal with a demon to get to use their powers and become blood mages? Why else do some mages immediately become abominations when cornered and resorting to blood magic? Why else have we seen blood mages who got influenced by the demons they thought of as tools/allies - sometimes without even noticing that they were being manipulated, like Merrill in DA2?

 

(I have thought about this for a while now while reading this thread, but I've probably missed something because people here seem to totally ignore the whole deal-with-demons thing. Please enlighten me. )

[Ianamus]

I call BS.

 

Mana based magic draws from the Fade. The spirit world. Home to demons.

 

Blood magic is cast using the life of the mage or his victim. Completely independent of the Fade.

 

Which one of these makes more sense to attract demons and risk possession?

 

Spirits are drawn to intense emotion, pain and suffering. That is why the veil is usually weak at sites of great battles and disastrous events.

 

Therefore it makes sense that blood magic, which is powered by pain and suffering and could be seen as a concentrated form of it, would be far more likely to attract demons and weaken the veil than regular lyrium-fueled magic.

[Hellion Rex]

It's not stated in the lore. And all magic weakens veil. 

BS. It has been said in the lore numerous times that blood magic weakens the Veil much faster than normal magic.

[Statare]

Blood Magic, as the forbidden school, has very little written/oral information on how to go about it. Most Blood Mages we've seen learned Blood Magic from a demon, beginning a slippery slope. If the only access to more knowledge a mage has is from demons, they are going to keep making deals with demons. Add to that that demons have a history of playing with the minds of mortals, and you get megalomaniac mages. If a mage simply uses blood, with out going to a demon or seeking to control demons, it seems to just be an exaggerated form of magic that grows with pain/malice and thins the veil doubly more than normal magic, increased exponentially if lives are sacrificed. Then demons get involved again so, you get bad things here as well if your not careful. Basically, I think Blood Magic with out demons is theoretically possible, but highly unlikely and besides the PCs (except the Warden who learns it from a demon) I don't think any Blood Mage has ever been completely demon/corruption free.

 

I'm okay with Blood Mage not being a specialization. As a specialization, it seemed like something weak/mundane. If as mage PCs we encounter moments in the game where we could use Blood Magic, to say open a magically sealed door, or to do something ultra powerful, but at a cost with our companions approval or NPCs, that would be ideal to me. Any mage can be a Blood Mage. It's not really a specialization, and more a power/choice. Then story affecting consequences could be explored. Sort of like the choice to use Blood Magic in the Connor story arch.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I might be wrong, but I believe blood magic doesn't exactly work through the blood itself alone ... it's still kind of empowered by energy from the Fade, demonic energy that is. Why else do mages normally have to make a deal with a demon to get to use their powers and become blood mages? Why else do some mages immediately become abominations when cornered and resorting to blood magic? Why else have we seen blood mages who got influenced by the demons they thought of as tools/allies - sometimes without even noticing that they were being manipulated, like Merrill in DA2?

 

(I have thought about this for a while now while reading this thread, but I've probably missed something because people here seem to totally ignore the whole deal-with-demons thing. Please enlighten me. )

 

A deal with demons is only necessary if you can't obtain the needed instructions on your own from a book like Jowan did or from a teacher like Grace.

 

Blood magic is free of the Fade. No need for spirits. You can summon them though. The spirit school of magic is tied far closer to the Fade than blood magic is hence the name.

 

Dealing with demons is risky because they're good at trickery and manipulation. Playing on your pride, desires, anger etc. Best to stay away. Unless your a mage beset by enemies and on the verge of death. Might as well rip open the Veil and take them with you!