314 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

Ask the Art department and/or our mage wasn't strong enough in fire magic, no wonder btw, one being a circle mage and the other one being an apostate with only education gained from apostate dad.

I don't see the difference between that ability and normal flame magic. All I can see is therein blood giving him more spellpower.

So if we continue to not see fire spells that powerful, we have to assume that it's because of the art department of the characters aren't strong enough (I wonder what would you say if we meet a mage known for his mastery in fire, if he's not as powerful as Titus), and not because of a unique ability granted by the Theirin blood, when the comics referred to that possibility? Got it.

[KainD]

The only spell that I think could even come close to that was maybe Adrian's Inferno spell, which did produce a similar effect.

 

It's not about the spell, it's about Adrian and any other mage that casts spells. Drop the game mechanics with set spells when you discuss lore. Every mage is going to cast a different ''inferno'', based on their character, on their experience and training. 

[The Elder King]

Fire spells are not some kind of entity, there is no ''fire spells'', there is a mage and their ability. The stronger the mage the stronger the spells, the more practice the mage has the better the spellcasting. Mages have no limits, it's all up to their potential and training.

Titus's abilities weren't granted by neither his training or potential, but by the blood of the theirins.

[KainD]

So if we continue to not see fire spells that powerful, we have to assume that it's because of the art department of the characters aren't strong enough (I wonder what would you say if we meet a mage known for his mastery in fire, if he's not as powerful as Titus), and not because of a unique ability granted by the Theirin blood, when the comics referred to that possibility? Got it.

 

Correct. 

[KainD]

Titus's abilities weren't granted by neither his training or potential, but by the blood of the theirins.

 

I told you already, I don't see any contradictions. Theirins blood gave him more spellpower. More spellpower = more juicy powerful spells. 

[Hellion Rex]

It's not about the spell, it's about Adrian and any other mage that casts spells. Drop the game mechanics with set spells when you discuss lore. Every mage is going to cast a different ''inferno'', based on their character, on their experience and training. 

I'm not even talking game mechanics. I was speaking of lore alone. And my point was meant to bolster your own position a tad, since we DO have examples of a mage doing something similar to what Titus did, without blood magic.

[The Elder King]

Correct.

What if Gaider himself state that Titus' abilities are based on the theirin's blood?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Who is this titus people talk about?

[Hellion Rex]

I told you already, I don't see any contradictions. Theirins blood gave him more spellpower. More spellpower = more juicy powerful spells. 

That explanation I can actually agree with. Dragon infused blood magic would pack a serious punch.

[KainD]

What if Gaider himself state that Titus' abilities are based on the theirin's blood?

 

How would that contradict the fact that a different powerful mage could do the same without Theirins blood? 

[Hellion Rex]

Who is this titus people talk about?

Aurelian Titus, a blood mage magister from the comics who utilized the dragon filled blood of King Maric and Alistair to seriously boost his normally weaker magic.

[The Elder King]

How would that contradict the fact that a different powerful mage could do the same without Theirins blood?

If Gaider stated that Titus' 'dragonfire' is granted exclusively by theirin's blood, it could mean that another mage can't smise that spell, or fire in that particular manner without it.

[metalfenix]

Well, if I remember correctly, the reaver spec is gained by drinking dragon blood precisely. So dragon blood is serious business.

 

Looking back, I should have tainted andraste's ashes instead of preserving them on origins.would fit better with my anti-chantry attitude lol.

[KainD]

If Gaider stated that Titus' 'dragonfire' is granted exclusively by theirin's blood, it could mean that another mage can't smise that spell, or fire in that particular manner without it.

 

Why would Gaider say something illogical? 

[Hellion Rex]

Ok, let's just say that "dragon fire" was a cool new fire spell created by utilizing dragon's blood to empower fire magic. Cause this arguing is getting us nowhere.

 

 

Edit: And my head is throbbing.

[KainD]

Ok, let's just say that "dragon fire" was a cool new fire spell created by utilizing dragon's blood to empower fire magic. Cause this arguing is getting us nowhere.

 

Yeah makes sense. 

[The Elder King]

Why would Gaider say something illogical?

Why would it be illogical? Why would it be illogical that 'dragonfire' is an exclusive spell that a mage can use becuase he has dragon blood, like Reavers have access to their abilities becuase they drinked dragon blood, or templar drinked mana? Or a spirit healer using additional spells because of his deal with a spirit?
I couldn't care less how 'dragonfire' works. Your explanation of theirin's blood being a spell power boost is a good one, but it doesn't have to be right.
Edit: I'll stop now. Kain, if you wish to continue feel free to PM me.

[Olmerto]

KainD said:
Fire spells are not some kind of entity, there is no ''fire spells'', there is a mage and their ability. The stronger the mage the stronger the spells, the more practice the mage has the better the spellcasting. Mages have no limits, it's all up to their potential and training.

And we know this is so because of science.

[KainD]

Why would it be illogical? Why would it be illogical that 'dragonfire' is an exclusive spell that a mage can use becuase he has dragon blood, like Reavers have access to their abilities becuase they drinked dragon blood, or templar drinked mana? Or a spirit healer using additional spells because of his deal with a spirit?
I couldn't care less how 'dragonfire' works. Your explanation of theirin's blood being a spell power boost is a good one, but it doesn't have to be right.

 

Mages can drain life like the reavers do, mages can use anti-magic spells like the templars do, I'm sure a professional powerful healer mage could also match the power of the spirit when it comes to healing, and I'm sure that a powerful mage can cast ''dragonfire''. 

It's magic, it doesn't have limits apart from talent and training. 

[Rhifox]

But wasn't it her keeper that screwed everything up by being Possessed by the demon? It doesn't end in tragedy because she goes to far with it and dies but because her keeper tryed to stop her from using "evil" blood magic.

 

Just because it wasn't Merrill who got possessed and killed (which would have been what happened if Marethari hadn't taken the bullet for her), that doesn't change the theme of her story. It was basically an Aesop Collateral Damage plot. She learns blood magic from a pride demon who continues to manipulate her with more knowledge to get her to free him, despite the warnings by everyone around her, and she is only saved because her mentor takes the fall for her (which Merrill now has to live with the guilt of). Consider that the pride demon Merrill learned blood magic from is named Audacity (defined as, "boldness or daring, especially with confident or arrogant disregard for personal safety, conventional thought, or other restrictions"), a word which describes her character throughout her arc.

 

The case can be made for "ethical" use of blood magic (provided the caster abstains from the more diabolical parts of it like demon summoning/mind control/thought-invasion/sacrificing others), but Merrill herself was far from a subversion IMO. She struck me as a textbook example of how resorting to forbidden magic destroys everything you hold dear regardless of your intent or how careful you are.

 

If you want an actual subversion, the closest I can think of is Fallstick. He's a blood mage with a seemingly positive depiction, using it to heal and protect and suffering no consequences for its use in the story (to my knowledge, I haven't read the comics myself).

 

On this topic, I was always rather sad that you couldn't share experiences with Merrill if you were playing a blood mage Hawke. That was such a missed opportunity.

[TK514]

I'm glad they finally stopped beating around the bush and basically said 'Yes, willingly using a school of magic powered by torture and death, that leaves the user more susceptible to demonic possession and has such uses as mind control and tearing the veil, is evil.'

[KainD]

I'm glad they finally stopped beating around the bush and basically said 'Yes, willingly using a school of magic powered by torture and death, that leaves the user more susceptible to demonic possession and has such uses as mind control and tearing the veil, is evil.'

 

Yeah, fighting for what you want is evil.  

[thats1evildude]

"As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."

 

-Christopher Dawson

 

"Bran, there are weapons too foul to use, even against Rome."

 

-Worms of the Earth

[jonesd]

I think we don't know enough to make a true decision on if they made a bad choice or not.  If they did what the post about Cameron Lee, then I get what he is saying.  But to me, it's too little too late (about only true evil using blood magic).   They've already allowed us in two games where we could be a blood mage and not go crazy evil.  They also showed at least two mages not go insane when using blood magic (Jowan and Merrill).  Say what you want about Merrill, but she never lost her mind and you killed the demon that may or may not have taken over her.  She was prepared.  I don't see how they can write their way out of the fact that blood magic doesn't have to be evil.  There is certainly a lot of danger involved, but we've seen users use it and be just fine.  Who knows, maybe they'll surprise me.

 

If they did it because of the difficultly of writing reactions, then I still don't buy that either.  They will (should) have the same difficulty with necromancy.  You can argue spirits, but a lot of people argue spirits are demons.  In DA mages aren't trusted, I don't see them over-looking necromancy.

 

I'm not hugely upset over this.  If one of the above options is true, then I don't like it.  Certainly not bad enough to not buy the game.  I enjoyed blood magic once and awhile, but I'm sure the other specs will be fun.  There is also the possibility that blood magic is part of the other specs.  

 

I just think that if (note the if) one of the above is true, then I can BS on their reasoning.

[KainD]

"As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."

 

That's how it is, and that's how it should be. No one goal is better than any other.